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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #22298338 - 09/27/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

the official poverty rate in the US doesn't index for cost of living by location.  if you include how much it costs to live by location and index the poverty rate for that, high cost states like California and New York do significantly worse

In other words, the Federal government is fucking them out of 'their fair share' Housing cost is the main factor according to the census bureau.

I live in california, I'm surprised they don't tax a persons shit when they take a dump.  They tax everything else.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22299064 - 09/27/15 03:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
the official poverty rate in the US doesn't index for cost of living by location.  if you include how much it costs to live by location and index the poverty rate for that, high cost states like California and New York do significantly worse

In other words, the Federal government is fucking them out of 'their fair share' Housing cost is the main factor according to the census bureau.

I live in california, I'm surprised they don't tax a persons shit when they take a dump.  They tax everything else.




You're just strengthening my point. With the high cost of living in California, you'd think they would get a larger share of welfare money, but the get something like $0.75 for every $1 they put in to pay for the welfare of red states.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #22299121 - 09/27/15 03:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
the official poverty rate in the US doesn't index for cost of living by location.  if you include how much it costs to live by location and index the poverty rate for that, high cost states like California and New York do significantly worse

In other words, the Federal government is fucking them out of 'their fair share' Housing cost is the main factor according to the census bureau.

I live in california, I'm surprised they don't tax a persons shit when they take a dump.  They tax everything else.




You're just strengthening my point. With the high cost of living in California, you'd think they would get a larger share of welfare money, but the get something like $0.75 for every $1 they put in to pay for the welfare of red states.




Actually your point is invalid, the reason the so called "red states" don't put in as much is because they don't have as many millionaires and billionaires, income equality is much less than those "blue states"


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22299157 - 09/27/15 03:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
the official poverty rate in the US doesn't index for cost of living by location.  if you include how much it costs to live by location and index the poverty rate for that, high cost states like California and New York do significantly worse

In other words, the Federal government is fucking them out of 'their fair share' Housing cost is the main factor according to the census bureau.

I live in california, I'm surprised they don't tax a persons shit when they take a dump.  They tax everything else.




You're just strengthening my point. With the high cost of living in California, you'd think they would get a larger share of welfare money, but the get something like $0.75 for every $1 they put in to pay for the welfare of red states.




Actually your point is invalid, the reason the so called "red states" don't put in as much is because they don't have as many millionaires and billionaires, income equality is much less than those "blue states"




Actually, my point is valid. Your argument has nothing to do wih my point. Go look up the term 'critical thinking'.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #22299493 - 09/27/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

So income inequality is much less in red states than in blue ones, yet you continue to bash them, critical thinking much?


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Offlinebennylava
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22299515 - 09/27/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Why should we bend over backwards in the hopes that an ultra pure capitalism wont have the same symptoms (for which there is no evidence) when we already know socialism works?




Couldn't stop laughing at this post. If capitalism is leading us off a cliff, then socialism's flames at the bottom have long since gone out, and racoons have nested in the carcass.

Ever heard of greece, or france, or the 30 other countries like them? What do you think happens when some other country won't bail you out anymore? Money grows on trees, right? Ever heard of economic collapse? ROFL! Capitalism may be damaging to the earth, but its fundamentally the anti-economic collapse.

Besides, in the future, socialism won't have any reason to exist. With the technology that will be available, even capitalism will die eventually. They'll be selling 3D printers in 40 years, that will make just about anything and everything you need. A robot will grow most of your food in your backyard. Nanomachines will do away with most of what we know of as "modern medicine". It just won't be necessary anymore. So there is no need to convert to some kind of proven piece of shit system like socialism. All we need to do, is take control of the politicians and make them stop taking bribes. At that point, the corporations lose all their power and the politicians are back in our pockets, not theirs.


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Offlinebennylava
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22299612 - 09/27/15 05:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

bennylava said:
Many of you seem to be missing the point. I'm saying kill their ability to make capitalism, be forced to go hand in hand with cronyism. The real problem here, is the government. Not any company. The companies should be at the mercy of the voting public. They're not. You all know what "campaign contributions" are, right. Nothing more than low life bribery. That's all they are. If companies or special interests can make a "campaign contribution", then that politician is now theirs. If I was a billionaire, and didn't even own one single company, but I gave a shitload of money to a politician, that's it I own them. To the degree that they at least have to stand for the things that I want them to. Other things that don't affect me or that I don't care about, they're free to do whatever. The corporations are just taking advantage of this system.

Take away the bribery, you'll kill the consumerism and make a real free market system. I'm not saying we don't need laws against raping the earth, cause we do. I'm just saying that you could make capitalism a good thing, whereas right now its just a monster lurching forth. Government just doesn't mix with... well anything really. Capitalism is great, without any form of government intervention, except for reasonable regulation. (that of course kills the bribery). Socialism is great, when not mixed with government in the slightest. The sooner you people learn that government is the problem, the better off you'll be. And you know what? They're breaking the law just taking the campaign contribution. Technically, if a judge did his job and upheld the law that he takes an oath to do, he'd have to find any politician taking any kind of campaign contribution, in violation of the 4rth amendment. And thus, they should be charged with a crime and barred from politics for life.

You start cracking down on these retards, and you'll see the change you want to see. Right now they and the companies just run rampant. They call it the gravy train for a reason.




However, the government can be a useful tool for implementing such a system. You should check out Richard Wolff's videos on youtube. He's great, and he talks about this stuff on occasion.




When have you ever known government to let go of any power? Once they get a little bit of power (in any given area) they latch on like a leech. See the post office for reference. The post office, should be long dead. UPS, FedEx, and the other smaller ones have all said, they could take over the post office's duties no problem. All that the post office handles, would be a hell of a lot cheaper. Because you just introduced competition, whereas the post office has a monoploly and prices are fixed. They only go up, not down.

The private parcel sector is barred from shipping envelopes/letters. Now I wonder why that is. Its because legislating business to the post office, is the only way they can exist at all. Nevermind that they suck at what they do, nevermind that these other guys could do a way better job AND your taxes would go down, (no post office to pay to run) nevermind all that. Just FORCE them to allow an inferior system to keep leeching off the taxpayers completely unnecessarily.

We don't need to post office for shit, basically. They're over with, they're finished. Technically. Only thing keeping them around is that law. So because of government, we get higher shipping prices (on letters) and higher taxes to pay for the post office's operation. You see, they don't let go of any kind of power. It just not in their nature. They want more and more and more, once they get a taste of a little. They have no common sense, because common sense would dictate that you let the private sector take over, and let the post office die a quite natural death. And this is just one industry, where this is going on. There are a great many others. Take public education for example. Its also a piece of dog doodoo.

I don't have any kids, and yet I'm forced to pay into the public education system. Why? Oh why? If I don't have any kids, then I shouldn't have to pay a penny. Fair is fair, right? The private sector could also take over public education, but that's another thing they just can't come to terms with. State regulations and inspectors could see to it that standards are upheld, just like they do with so many other industries. So educational standards are not even a question. That way if you don't have kids, you don't pay, cause they'd be going to a private school anyway. Not to mention their education would be great. Instead of the government run system failing them, like it does to so many, with the system we have now. Private schools are well known for far superior practices and standards of education. This is common knowledge.

So again, allowing the government control over anything new is just generally a really bad idea. There are plenty of other ways to do things. Not to mention, you can't argue with them. If there ever is a problem, its a lot easier to raise a stink, and sue some company, than it is the government. The government isn't half as malleable, they just don't move. Defeating the government in a court case is extremely difficult, as any lawyer will tell you. The reasons for not involving government are just piled up a mile high. Its a bad idea, even among bad ideas.


Edited by bennylava (09/27/15 05:26 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22300290 - 09/27/15 08:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
So income inequality is much less in red states than in blue ones, yet you continue to bash them, critical thinking much?




No, your "argument" was a non sequitur (look that up too, while you're reading up on critical thinking).


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22300308 - 09/27/15 08:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

We the people control the government, at the end of the day. The government doesn't have any power without societies consent or apathy/willful ignorance/disinterest.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinebennylava
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22300361 - 09/27/15 08:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
We the people control the government, at the end of the day. The government doesn't have any power without societies consent or apathy/willful ignorance/disinterest.




That means nothing if I have an actual grievance with the government. That's one thing I can never get liberals to understand. For some reason, they just can't fathom it. Probably because they actually look up to the government, in an almost worshipful way. Instead of looking at it as the disease that it is. I agree with the founding fathers who said "Government is an evil, albeit a necessary evil".

Your argument suggests that no one would ever have a legitimate problem with the government, that needed to be sorted out. Which of course, happens all day every day in the real world.


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22301029 - 09/27/15 11:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bennylava said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
We the people control the government, at the end of the day. The government doesn't have any power without societies consent or apathy/willful ignorance/disinterest.




That means nothing if I have an actual grievance with the government. That's one thing I can never get liberals to understand. For some reason, they just can't fathom it. Probably because they actually look up to the government, in an almost worshipful way. Instead of looking at it as the disease that it is. I agree with the founding fathers who said "Government is an evil, albeit a necessary evil".

Your argument suggests that no one would ever have a legitimate problem with the government, that needed to be sorted out. Which of course, happens all day every day in the real world.




Luckily YOUR ideology is much better!
And also good for you having such great critical thinking skills, you would never put many different people under one label and then make generalizations about them. Unlike dem darn librals!!!!


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22301126 - 09/28/15 12:55 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bennylava said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
We the people control the government, at the end of the day. The government doesn't have any power without societies consent or apathy/willful ignorance/disinterest.




That means nothing if I have an actual grievance with the government. That's one thing I can never get liberals to understand. For some reason, they just can't fathom it. Probably because they actually look up to the government, in an almost worshipful way. Instead of looking at it as the disease that it is. I agree with the founding fathers who said "Government is an evil, albeit a necessary evil".

Your argument suggests that no one would ever have a legitimate problem with the government, that needed to be sorted out. Which of course, happens all day every day in the real world.




Your quote was actually a paraphrasing of something Thomas Paine said. You have to understand that the founding fathers were not one person, but a composition of people with vastly different views from one another on a variety of issues. You can't say 'they said this or that' unless it is something that was agreed upon formally by all of them. The constitution is an example of that, as they all formally agreed when they signed it. The constitution, however, was also a compromise, and not everything in it was agreed upon by all persons present.

How did I suggest nobody would ever have a legitimate problem with government?

I get that you want to dictate where every single dollar of your tax money goes, but that is not sensible or practical. We decide collectively, as a society, where our money goes, to one extent or another.

By the way, I don't 'worship government'. I see it as a tool, that has been misused for a long time. If someone uses a hammer to beat their wife for 20 years, does that make the hammer bad? Fuck no. I can still drive nails with it perfectly fine!


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22301134 - 09/28/15 01:02 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

thats one tough old lady to take 20 years of brutal hammer beatings


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Offlinebennylava
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Registered: 05/29/15
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22301260 - 09/28/15 02:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

bennylava said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
We the people control the government, at the end of the day. The government doesn't have any power without societies consent or apathy/willful ignorance/disinterest.




That means nothing if I have an actual grievance with the government. That's one thing I can never get liberals to understand. For some reason, they just can't fathom it. Probably because they actually look up to the government, in an almost worshipful way. Instead of looking at it as the disease that it is. I agree with the founding fathers who said "Government is an evil, albeit a necessary evil".

Your argument suggests that no one would ever have a legitimate problem with the government, that needed to be sorted out. Which of course, happens all day every day in the real world.




Your quote was actually a paraphrasing of something Thomas Paine said. You have to understand that the founding fathers were not one person, but a composition of people with vastly different views from one another on a variety of issues. You can't say 'they said this or that' unless it is something that was agreed upon formally by all of them. The constitution is an example of that, as they all formally agreed when they signed it. The constitution, however, was also a compromise, and not everything in it was agreed upon by all persons present.

How did I suggest nobody would ever have a legitimate problem with government?

I get that you want to dictate where every single dollar of your tax money goes, but that is not sensible or practical. We decide collectively, as a society, where our money goes, to one extent or another.

By the way, I don't 'worship government'. I see it as a tool, that has been misused for a long time. If someone uses a hammer to beat their wife for 20 years, does that make the hammer bad? Fuck no. I can still drive nails with it perfectly fine!




I never said you were a liberal, nor did I say my ideology was somehow superior, like the other guy said. Didn't say either one. I simply said the government can't be trusted, and the constitution certainly reflects that. Notice their constant attempts to circumvent it. I should get to dictate where my tax dollars go, in the event that nothing they're being used for, applies to me. Such as the public schools. Now if we're talking about the military, or public roads, or the fire dept, etc etc, then yeah obviously I believe in taxes. See that all makes sense. Perfect sense. Me paying for some old woman I'll never know to have some kind of surgery, or paying for other people's kids to go to school... not so much. Am I fleecing them for things that I believe I should have, that they make no use of? See it works both ways.

I also believe in a flat tax, which would permanently put this whole argument to rest. Bureaucratic inefficiencies and government waste exists, whether you want to admit it or not. And I want a complete stop put to it. Take all that waste, and put that towards modern solutions, and we wouldn't even be having this conversation, cause there wouldn't be any need to. But hey, forget all that logic and stuff, right? Give 'em more money and more power! I'm sure they'll do better for some reason, this time.


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22301309 - 09/28/15 03:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Short-sighted, black-and-white claptrap.
You sound like a liberal.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22301473 - 09/28/15 06:20 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Did you go to public school?  Did others pay for you to go?  Do you benefit from living in an educated society?


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22301664 - 09/28/15 07:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Did you go to public school?  Did others pay for you to go?  Do you benefit from living in an educated society?




Do you believe that is the federal govt doesn't do it, it won't get done?

Did you know that before the '70s, there was no federal department of education?

Kids still went to school, the fact is the federal govt has no business in education, it's a states issue...


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22301690 - 09/28/15 08:06 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Many kids went to school, Daffy. Not all.
Look, you have got to understand... not everybody is in the middle class, okay?
If you take that to heart, you WILL understand why some social programs are necesary.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22301697 - 09/28/15 08:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Did you go to public school?  Did others pay for you to go?  Do you benefit from living in an educated society?




Do you believe that is the federal govt doesn't do it, it won't get done?

Did you know that before the '70s, there was no federal department of education?

Kids still went to school, the fact is the federal govt has no business in education, it's a states issue...




My question wasn't directed at you.  It was directed at bennylava's comment about not wanting to pay taxes for things they don't use.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22301747 - 09/28/15 08:26 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Did you go to public school?  Did others pay for you to go?  Do you benefit from living in an educated society?




Do you believe that is the federal govt doesn't do it, it won't get done?

Did you know that before the '70s, there was no federal department of education?

Kids still went to school, the fact is the federal govt has no business in education, it's a states issue...




You can claim it as a fact, but that doesn't make it one.

I could easily say the federal government has no business deciding if slavery is legal, it should be up to the states. How'd that turn out?


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