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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22291457 - 09/26/15 01:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Most wealthy people earned their money without inheritances, I guess liberals don't admit this point.

Inheritances can be wasted almost like lottery winnings.

Also, who has more of a right on your mother/father's money? You or some government sissy IRS agent?


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Edited by burgerbrain (10/04/15 12:39 PM)


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Offlinebennylava
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22291489 - 09/26/15 01:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
no it isn't.  it's cronyism.




A side effect of Capitalism.

Marx predicted everything would play out exactly as it has, with regard to Capitalism.




He also said "I am not a marxist" when he came to realize what marxism was to become. What we know it as.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22291508 - 09/26/15 01:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Most wealthy people earned their money without inheritances, I guess liberals don't admit this point.

Inheritances can be wasted almost like lottery winnings.

Also, who has more of a right on your mother/father's money? You or some government sissy faggot IRS agent?




valid points, though the first doesn't really address the childhood advantages of wealth.  I'm not even arguing against capitalism mind you, just pointing out that it is far from as fair as it proponents would have everyone believe


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22291512 - 09/26/15 01:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Capitalism IS wonderful... until you fall between the shore and the boat.

You know what would make capitalism even better? A free market economy without cronyism and tons and tons of corruption.
Maybe someday we'll live in a capitalist society, eh? I sure hope so.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Turtletotem]
    #22291530 - 09/26/15 01:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Turtletotem said:
without cronyism and tons and tons of corruption.




Unlikely to happen if there are humans involved. maybe after skynet enslaves us all...


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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22291532 - 09/26/15 01:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Most wealthy people earned their money without inheritances, I guess liberals don't admit this point.

Inheritances can be wasted almost like lottery winnings.

Also, who has more of a right on your mother/father's money? You or some government sissy faggot IRS agent?




valid points, though the first doesn't really address the childhood advantages of wealth.  I'm not even arguing against capitalism mind you, just pointing out that it is far from as fair as it proponents would have everyone believe




Many billionaires did not even go to college, so what childhood advantage? What about all of those degrees (Liberal Arts, etc.) that are useless-any rich kids take those? I'd bet many rich kids were led astray.

I wholeheartedly agree that Capitalism isn't fair-but I think it's the fairest system that humanity has come up with. Yes there are problems which is why we have government to fix those problems (but they haven't done so despite the trillions of tax dollars given to our government)

I think we can agree on a lot things, thanks for chatting, ballsalsa.


PS. Found a link for reading
Most of the world's billionaires didn't inherit their wealth — they earned it
http://www.businessinsider.com/richest-people-in-the-world-2015-4


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Edited by burgerbrain (09/26/15 02:11 AM)


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22291999 - 09/26/15 06:57 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bennylava said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
no it isn't.  it's cronyism.




A side effect of Capitalism.

Marx predicted everything would play out exactly as it has, with regard to Capitalism.




He also said "I am not a marxist" when he came to realize what marxism was to become. What we know it as.




He said if that's Marxism then I'm not a Marxist.  The point he was making was that he was being mischaracterized by violent revolutionaries, mostly in Russia.

Re:  Capitalism and innovation.

This is a common fallacy.  NIH receives almost as much funding as the DOD, much of it goes to research.  Public projects took us to the moon, built the LHC, and are in the process of building the first fusion reactor.

We can innovate just fine without it.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


Edited by paperbackwriter (09/26/15 07:09 AM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22292118 - 09/26/15 07:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bennylava said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
no it isn't.  it's cronyism.




A side effect of Capitalism.

Marx predicted everything would play out exactly as it has, with regard to Capitalism.




He also said "I am not a marxist" when he came to realize what marxism was to become. What we know it as.




What?

Marx died 50 years before the Soviet Union was created.

Take your revisionist history back to the Heritage Institute.


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Offlinebennylava
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Turtletotem]
    #22294573 - 09/26/15 04:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Turtletotem said:
Capitalism IS wonderful... until you fall between the shore and the boat.

You know what would make capitalism even better? A free market economy without cronyism and tons and tons of corruption.
Maybe someday we'll live in a capitalist society, eh? I sure hope so.





The real evil here, that liberals don't seem to notice, isn't capitalism. Not in the slightest little bit, unless you're counting cronyism. Its consumerism. We need to kill consumerism with extreme prejudice. Aside from that capitalism is just fine. Let them capitalize all they want, on building a quality product that isn't made to break after a certain amount of time/usage. And once disposed of, isn't harmful to the environment. This would have to include oil since it pollutes and is used up. If you actually killed consumerism, the liberals wouldn't have a leg to stand on when it came to capitalism.

For example, no more cutting down trees to make stupid shit like paper plates. Use that new method where you grow some kind of grass, and that's now the paper plates of the world.

There are shit tons of other examples just like that, I'm sure you've heard of them, no need for me to go into it. But yeah, just kill consumerism, let capitalism be. It promotes new technologies which we really need.


Edited by bennylava (09/26/15 04:55 PM)


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22294742 - 09/26/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Capitalism runs on rampant consumerism.  Planned obsolescence is very much a business strategy that exists outside of crony capitalism.  Green technologies would be great but capitalists will only develop them if they can earn a profit and only use them if they can earn a profit.  If it's cheaper to pollute and keep making money off the status quo that's what they'll do instead.

Socialism advocates production for use.  This is the opposite of a consumption driven system.  There's also a lot of green forms of Socialism that advocate production strategies just like you mentioned.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22294961 - 09/26/15 06:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
R&D can be performed by governments but at a much greater cost to everyone involved- and a much worse result

Capitalism is wonderful.




I would love to see this claim substantiated.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22294965 - 09/26/15 06:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Capitalism runs on rampant consumerism.  Planned obsolescence is very much a business strategy that exists outside of crony capitalism.  Green technologies would be great but capitalists will only develop them if they can earn a profit and only use them if they can earn a profit.  If it's cheaper to pollute and keep making money off the status quo that's what they'll do instead.

Socialism advocates production for use.  This is the opposite of a consumption driven system.  There's also a lot of green forms of Socialism that advocate production strategies just like you mentioned.




:thumbup:

I love how any negative of capitalism is written off as a bastardization, but the existence of Stalin all but disqualifies socialism from reason.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22294973 - 09/26/15 06:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

burgerbrain said:
R&D can be performed by governments but at a much greater cost to everyone involved- and a much worse result

Capitalism is wonderful.




I would love to see this claim substantiated.




Take a number.


But burgerbrain needs to write us a letter because without DARPA we wouldnt be on the internet right now.


--------------------


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22294994 - 09/26/15 06:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Capitalism runs on rampant consumerism.  Planned obsolescence is very much a business strategy that exists outside of crony capitalism.  Green technologies would be great but capitalists will only develop them if they can earn a profit and only use them if they can earn a profit.  If it's cheaper to pollute and keep making money off the status quo that's what they'll do instead.

Socialism advocates production for use.  This is the opposite of a consumption driven system.  There's also a lot of green forms of Socialism that advocate production strategies just like you mentioned.




I was just going to say the same thing!

This whole idea that modern day Libertarians have of the 'free market' isn't even one that Adam Smith espoused. Adam Smith believed that markets should be regulated on behalf of workers. Which, honestly, is a fantasy land.

We live in a Capitalist society, and don't anyone believe otherwise. This is Capitalism. Marx predicted that Capitalism would degenerate into cronyism due to 'rent-seeking' Capitalists who had gained enough wealth to be capable of corrupting the political structure. Capitalists (and therefore Capitalism) wants corruption, because that is what's best for the Capitalist. Capitalism is modern-day Feudalism. If you're not a Capitalist, you're a serf (of sorts).


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22295004 - 09/26/15 06:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Exactly. Cronyism is a cop out. If Im a capitalist and I have the capital to influence market forces (namely the legislature) to my benefit, the free market not only allows it, it practically dictates it.


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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22295029 - 09/26/15 06:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

burgerbrain said:
R&D can be performed by governments but at a much greater cost to everyone involved- and a much worse result

Capitalism is wonderful.




I would love to see this claim substantiated.




Take a number.


But burgerbrain needs to write us a letter because without DARPA we wouldnt be on the internet right now.





Hehe I enjoy it when welfare leeches cry about how much they love the government. I hope the gov' treats you well.

As for drug R&D, the gov' won't get into the business unless it's to extract money from pharmaceutical companies via the FDA..

What gov' program costs less and does more than what the private sector could deliver?, I'll wait. LOL


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22295047 - 09/26/15 06:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Actually were still waiting on you to substantiate, well, any of your claims.

protip: your personal opinion and/or anecdotes wont suffice.


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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22295054 - 09/26/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Actually were still waiting on you to substantiate, well, any of your claims.

protip: your personal opinion and/or anecdotes wont suffice.




I just did substantiate, right here:

What gov' program costs less and does more than what the private sector could deliver?, I'll wait. LOL

Answer: There are none!


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22295100 - 09/26/15 06:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

This is your claim:

Quote:

burgerbrain said:

R&D can be performed by governments but at a much greater cost to everyone involved- and a much worse result ]




I already said "because i said so" isnt a valid substantiation, as most toddlers know, yet you continue to believe that proves you right.

:facepalm:


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22295106 - 09/26/15 06:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Actually were still waiting on you to substantiate, well, any of your claims.

protip: your personal opinion and/or anecdotes wont suffice.




I just did substantiate, right here:

What gov' program costs less and does more than what the private sector could deliver?, I'll wait. LOL

Answer: There are none!




Single payer healthcare. The world over. Aside from that, you're the one that made the ridiculous claim, back it up, son!

Btw, are you saying that I'm on welfare? How do you presume to know my financial circumstances. I've never received a welfare check, and I've only had unemployment once, for one weeks pay, out of my entire life, because my entire factory was laid off for a week. Plenty of wealthy and fully employed folks advocate Socialism.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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