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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: psyconaught]
    #22346917 - 10/07/15 06:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Who exactly do you think private business owners are? I've been an owner of multiple business's over the coarse of my life. Roughly half of the national GPD is small business owners, people like you, me, your neighbors, etc. They are not some external force that exist outside of the normal public, they are the public.




First let me point out how amazing it is that every single conservative poster on this drug forum is or was a small business owner.

Second, explain to me how small business owners would get screwed under a socialist economy anymore than they are now. Because as it stands they're paying all the dues that the super rich pay with nearly none of the benefits.



its not that hard to be a small business owner :shrug: I had a business mowing lawns when i was in high school and feeding farm animals when i was in Jr. high. Its not some unimaginably difficult thing to do, nor does it imply they are all making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, mine were all just fun money ventures.

And i never made the claim that small businesses would suffer under a socialist economy.




Did you employ your fellow high school students in this little lawn-mowing venture of yours? If not, I dont think this really qualifies as a "small business". More like 'free lance lawn mower'. When I was a kid I mowed lawns too. I've never managed to aggrandize it in my mind as well as you have!


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #22348155 - 10/07/15 11:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Who exactly do you think private business owners are? I've been an owner of multiple business's over the coarse of my life. Roughly half of the national GPD is small business owners, people like you, me, your neighbors, etc. They are not some external force that exist outside of the normal public, they are the public.




First let me point out how amazing it is that every single conservative poster on this drug forum is or was a small business owner.

Second, explain to me how small business owners would get screwed under a socialist economy anymore than they are now. Because as it stands they're paying all the dues that the super rich pay with nearly none of the benefits.



its not that hard to be a small business owner :shrug: I had a business mowing lawns when i was in high school and feeding farm animals when i was in Jr. high. Its not some unimaginably difficult thing to do, nor does it imply they are all making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, mine were all just fun money ventures.

And i never made the claim that small businesses would suffer under a socialist economy.




Did you employ your fellow high school students in this little lawn-mowing venture of yours? If not, I dont think this really qualifies as a "small business". More like 'free lance lawn mower'. When I was a kid I mowed lawns too. I've never managed to aggrandize it in my mind as well as you have!



so sole proprietorships aren't business's? I'm not sure why you're trying to make this personal :shrug:. I'm not aggrandizing anything, I simply don't hold the denomination of "small business" as some highly mythical thing.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22348364 - 10/08/15 01:00 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Did you employ your fellow high school students in this little lawn-mowing venture of yours? If not, I dont think this really qualifies as a "small business". More like 'free lance lawn mower'. When I was a kid I mowed lawns too. I've never managed to aggrandize it in my mind as well as you have!




Splitting hairs and personal attacking again, I see.

Meanwhile, in Georgia, police shutdown a lemonade stand run by three girls who were saving money to go to a water park. Police said the girls needed a business license, a peddler’s permit, and a food permit to operate the stand, which cost $50 per day or $180 per year each, sums that would quickly cut into any possible profit-margin.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/15/georgia-police-close-girls-lemonade-stand/


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
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Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,871
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22349221 - 10/08/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

those damned left-wing georgians are stifling business! :crankey:
These onerous regulations are a way for Government to pick winners and losers!
its no wonder that we've seen offshored lemonade production with this kind of predatory regulation.

:Trollface:


--------------------


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Offlinebennylava
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Registered: 05/29/15
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Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #22349316 - 10/08/15 09:40 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:I agree.

Which is why I believe people that actually do the job have the best understanding of how much their job is worth, how big of a budget they need, what kind of manpower is...






This is completely retarded. The job market determines this, not some low end peon who didn't even graduate high school, let alone college. Give him the choice and he'll have you paying him $50 an hour and he'll STILL be lazy at work. No, you either come here and do the work for the pay offered, or you go find work somewhere else. There are tons of other people who will be glad to take your job. The fact is, anybody (including the CEO) can do monotonous, or manual labor jobs. Anybody. (minus the disabled of obviously). Not just anybody can lead a company to good decisions and billions in profits. As CEO's do. (well the good ones that don't just end up fired)

You libbies seem to think that CEOs are these magical beings that have these secret powers to make this all powerful entity continue forth. Hell no, if they don't perform, they're looking for a new job just like the floor worker. They're no different in that aspect. And their required duties are a hell of a lot more demanding than pushing a broom, or pushing a button on some machine at the right time. They're worth 250x more than that floor worker, easy. Sometimes more. Lets see that floor worker get up there and lead the company to billions. Good luck with that.


Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Did you employ your fellow high school students in this little lawn-mowing venture of yours? If not, I dont think this really qualifies as a "small business". More like 'free lance lawn mower'. When I was a kid I mowed lawns too. I've never managed to aggrandize it in my mind as well as you have!




I have 3 employees, and I agree with everything he said. What now? Hope to have more in the future too. I'll be helping to put food on the table for more and more families, if things go as I hope they will. How many people are you going to be feeding? None? Somehow I already knew that. Socialists always know what's best for everyone else, especially when they have absolutely no experience actually doing anything related.

And if that's not true, then I'm all ears. Lets hear how you plan to implement socialism, without involving the worthless good for nothing (or good for very little) corrupt government. You guys kept going on and on about how you don't necessarily have to involve government in socialism, and I'd like to hear how you'd get people to voluntarily participate in it. Without tyrannically forcing them to, on threat of imprisonment. Like its being done currently.


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Offlinebennylava
Bad example


Registered: 05/29/15
Posts: 587
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #22349323 - 10/08/15 09:41 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
those damned left-wing georgians are stifling business! :crankey:
These onerous regulations are a way for Government to pick winners and losers!
its no wonder that we've seen offshored lemonade production with this kind of predatory regulation.




Retarded sarcasm when you have no counter point, and he just proved you wrong. Good job. And you probably think no one notices. But that's typical.


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Invisibleburgerbrain
Freedom Lover
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Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22349340 - 10/08/15 09:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I knew you children would start yelling "Georgia is a RED STATE!" LOL. A lemonade stand is a small business anywhere you go, balleater. I guess you didn't know that.

Cops shut down lemonade stand in Rhode Island:
http://www.people.com/article/police-shut-down-jerry-seinfeld-lemonade-stand-hamptons


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Edited by burgerbrain (10/08/15 10:03 AM)


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22349345 - 10/08/15 09:49 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bennylava said:
Hell no, if they don't perform, they're looking for a new job just like the floor worker. They're no different in that aspect.





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_handshake
Quote:

A golden handshake is a clause in an executive employment contract that provides the executive with a significant severance package in the case that the executive loses his or her job through firing, restructuring, or even scheduled retirement.[1] This can be in the form of cash, equity, and other benefits, and is often accompanied by an accelerated vesting of stock options. According to Investopedia, golden handshake is similar to, but more generous than a golden parachute because it not only provides monetary compensation and/or stock options at the termination of employment, it includes the same severance packages executives would get at retirement.[2]

The term originated in Britain in the mid-1960s. It was first coined by the city editor of the Daily Express, Frederick Ellis.[3] It later gained currency in New Zealand in the late 1990s over the controversial departures of various state sector executives.[4][5]

Typically, "golden handshakes" are offered only to high-ranking executives by major corporations and may entail a value measured in millions of dollars. Golden handshakes are given to offset the risk inherent in taking the new job, since high-ranking executives have a high likelihood of being fired and since a company requiring an outsider to come in at such a high level may be in a precarious financial position. Their use has caused some investors concern since they do not specify that the executive had to perform well. In some high-profile instances, executives cashed in their stock options, while under their stewardship their companies lost millions of dollars and thousands of workers were laid off.




Yeah, they're no different...


--------------------


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Offlinebennylava
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Registered: 05/29/15
Posts: 587
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22349394 - 10/08/15 09:59 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

So,

1. You're going to sit there and say they ALL get this,

and

2. You think that will sustain them and their lifestyle for very long after they get fired for sucking. In the event that they actually suck and aren't worth every fucking penny. Yeah that big house, several cars, land tax, bills, etc etc etc all pays for itself. For people who believe money grows on trees, you're sure selective about when you believe it.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22349409 - 10/08/15 10:04 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bennylava said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:I agree.

Which is why I believe people that actually do the job have the best understanding of how much their job is worth, how big of a budget they need, what kind of manpower is...






This is completely retarded. The job market determines this, not some low end peon who didn't even graduate high school, let alone college. Give him the choice and he'll have you paying him $50 an hour and he'll STILL be lazy at work. No, you either come here and do the work for the pay offered, or you go find work somewhere else. There are tons of other people who will be glad to take your job. The fact is, anybody (including the CEO) can do monotonous, or manual labor jobs. Anybody. (minus the disabled of obviously). Not just anybody can lead a company to good decisions and billions in profits. As CEO's do. (well the good ones that don't just end up fired)

You libbies seem to think that CEOs are these magical beings that have these secret powers to make this all powerful entity continue forth. Hell no, if they don't perform, they're looking for a new job just like the floor worker. They're no different in that aspect. And their required duties are a hell of a lot more demanding than pushing a broom, or pushing a button on some machine at the right time. They're worth 250x more than that floor worker, easy. Sometimes more. Lets see that floor worker get up there and lead the company to billions. Good luck with that.





I'm fairly certain that second quote isn't mine.

As far as a response to the first.  You're assuming I'm talking about manual labor only (which I'm not).  Still, I've done a lot of manual labor and I knew exactly what I was worth.  I've worked on enough small crews to know how much the job was bringing in after expenses and what I was contributing.  I've also worked with several bosses that paid me accordingly.

All of that aside, you seem to be the one that believes CEOs have magical powers.  How is it that they're better at understanding the needs of the engineers than the engineers themselves?  CEOs serve the shareholders.  I have no problem with that.  However I will reiterate that we can't live in a truly democratic society unless the workers also have a say at their job.

Germany has been trying this by the way.  Companies over 200 employees have to give their employees representation on the board.  And it's working out well for everyone.  The workers are more in touch than you're giving them credit for.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22350132 - 10/08/15 01:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Did you employ your fellow high school students in this little lawn-mowing venture of yours? If not, I dont think this really qualifies as a "small business". More like 'free lance lawn mower'. When I was a kid I mowed lawns too. I've never managed to aggrandize it in my mind as well as you have!




Splitting hairs and personal attacking again, I see.





Personal attack? Where?

Do you think at all before you post?

I was not 'splitting hairs'. I don't consider a teenager mowing lawns to be a small business owner, and I'm quite certain they aren't taxed as such.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22350143 - 10/08/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Quote:

bennylava said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:I agree.

Which is why I believe people that actually do the job have the best understanding of how much their job is worth, how big of a budget they need, what kind of manpower is...






This is completely retarded. The job market determines this, not some low end peon who didn't even graduate high school, let alone college. Give him the choice and he'll have you paying him $50 an hour and he'll STILL be lazy at work. No, you either come here and do the work for the pay offered, or you go find work somewhere else. There are tons of other people who will be glad to take your job. The fact is, anybody (including the CEO) can do monotonous, or manual labor jobs. Anybody. (minus the disabled of obviously). Not just anybody can lead a company to good decisions and billions in profits. As CEO's do. (well the good ones that don't just end up fired)

You libbies seem to think that CEOs are these magical beings that have these secret powers to make this all powerful entity continue forth. Hell no, if they don't perform, they're looking for a new job just like the floor worker. They're no different in that aspect. And their required duties are a hell of a lot more demanding than pushing a broom, or pushing a button on some machine at the right time. They're worth 250x more than that floor worker, easy. Sometimes more. Lets see that floor worker get up there and lead the company to billions. Good luck with that.





I'm fairly certain that second quote isn't mine.

As far as a response to the first.  You're assuming I'm talking about manual labor only (which I'm not).  Still, I've done a lot of manual labor and I knew exactly what I was worth.  I've worked on enough small crews to know how much the job was bringing in after expenses and what I was contributing.  I've also worked with several bosses that paid me accordingly.

All of that aside, you seem to be the one that believes CEOs have magical powers.  How is it that they're better at understanding the needs of the engineers than the engineers themselves?  CEOs serve the shareholders.  I have no problem with that.  However I will reiterate that we can't live in a truly democratic society unless the workers also have a say at their job.

Germany has been trying this by the way.  Companies over 200 employees have to give their employees representation on the board.  And it's working out well for everyone.  The workers are more in touch than you're giving them credit for.




I think his point is that all employees are retarded fucking assholes, and CEO's are brilliant mythical wizards, whom we should worship, and bow down to.

Do you understand now, ppw? God!:facepalm:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinebennylava
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Registered: 05/29/15
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22350342 - 10/08/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:I think his point is that all employees are retarded fucking assholes, and CEO's are brilliant mythical wizards, whom we should worship, and bow down to.

Do you understand now, ppw? God!:facepalm:





Sounds about right. You thinking that, I mean. Seems to reflect the level of understanding that you've demonstrated thus far, so sure, I'll roll with it.

So since we're playing the "go to opposite extremes" game, I'll say that you people must think that anyone can do a CEO's job, and low end, easily replaceable unskilled labor knows what's good for a business. Engineers know a CEO's job, and accountants can easily do successful engineering.

Yes, everyone knows everything. The CEO should mop the floors, and the janitor should be up there in the big office, calling the shots.

Sweet mother of god you guys are nuts. But, unlike me, you've never ran a business, and you have zero experience. So you're talking out of your ass, whereas I speak from real world experience and know how.

So go ahead, lets hear YOUR qualifications. Dollars to donuts you're grocery clerks or something similar. Lets hear it.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22350368 - 10/08/15 02:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bennylava said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:I think his point is that all employees are retarded fucking assholes, and CEO's are brilliant mythical wizards, whom we should worship, and bow down to.

Do you understand now, ppw? God!:facepalm:





Sounds about right. You thinking that, I mean. Seems to reflect the level of understanding that you've demonstrated thus far, so sure, I'll roll with it.

So since we're playing the "go to opposite extremes" game, I'll say that you people must think that anyone can do a CEO's job, and low end, easily replaceable unskilled labor knows what's good for a business. Engineers know a CEO's job, and accountants can easily do successful engineering.

Yes, everyone knows everything. The CEO should mop the floors, and the janitor should be up there in the big office, calling the shots.

Sweet mother of god you guys are nuts. But, unlike me, you've never ran a business, and you have zero experience. So you're talking out of your ass, whereas I speak from real world experience and know how.

So go ahead, lets hear YOUR qualifications. Dollars to donuts you're grocery clerks or something similar. Lets hear it.




No, not at all. You're implying that CEO's know everything about every facet of a business, from the Engineers, to the floor moppers. I would argue that CEO's have a job to do, just like everyone else within the company, and that job is not 5000% more important than the Engineers job.

I believe that the entire company as a whole should have elected representatives on the board, as they do in Germany. It has boosted productivity within their companies in Germany, and boosted morale amongst employees.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinebennylava
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Registered: 05/29/15
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #22350731 - 10/08/15 04:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Obviously they don't know every facet. Otherwise, the only position ever available would be "CEO.

They just know how to run every facet. They know what every facet should be producing, at what rate, etc. And if they don't, they have a manager for that. Floor moppers should be producing clean floors at this rate or above. Or fire the floor moppers. Engineers have this long to develop this product, or fire the engineers. They know their shit, they know how long these things take and how much it should cost and on and on and on.

A GOOD CEO may not be worth 5000x the engineer, but he's worth 500x easy. And that just about reflects accurate levels. My friend's dad was an engineer for lockheed, up until he retired 4 years ago. He told us he made $83k per year at his highest pay rate. There is no way in hell the CEO even makes 200x that number. People are paid what they're worth. If I could lead you to billions of dollars, you're damn right you'd pay me $16,000,000 per year. You'd be falling all over yourself to pay it. You'd be asking me if I'd like a private helicopter to come pick me up for work every day.

And I'm still waiting to hear what you do for a living. Was I right? Check out clerk? No surprise to hear the low man on the totem pole, bellyaching about how he should be paid more money to stand there and push buttons. While also thinking he knows what's best for a multi billion dollar business.


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Invisibleburgerbrain
Freedom Lover
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Registered: 09/18/15
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22350763 - 10/08/15 04:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22350783 - 10/08/15 04:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

More memes :carlinorgasm:


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: burgerbrain] * 1
    #22350793 - 10/08/15 04:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

burgerbrain said:





It's funny because it's TRUE!

and no lib can prove its not!

***insert slogan here


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22351588 - 10/08/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bennylava said:
Obviously they don't know every facet. Otherwise, the only position ever available would be "CEO.

They just know how to run every facet. They know what every facet should be producing, at what rate, etc. And if they don't, they have a manager for that. Floor moppers should be producing clean floors at this rate or above. Or fire the floor moppers. Engineers have this long to develop this product, or fire the engineers. They know their shit, they know how long these things take and how much it should cost and on and on and on.

A GOOD CEO may not be worth 5000x the engineer, but he's worth 500x easy. And that just about reflects accurate levels. My friend's dad was an engineer for lockheed, up until he retired 4 years ago. He told us he made $83k per year at his highest pay rate. There is no way in hell the CEO even makes 200x that number. People are paid what they're worth. If I could lead you to billions of dollars, you're damn right you'd pay me $16,000,000 per year. You'd be falling all over yourself to pay it. You'd be asking me if I'd like a private helicopter to come pick me up for work every day.

And I'm still waiting to hear what you do for a living. Was I right? Check out clerk? No surprise to hear the low man on the totem pole, bellyaching about how he should be paid more money to stand there and push buttons. While also thinking he knows what's best for a multi billion dollar business.




I didn't say 5000X lmao! God damn dude. :facepalm:

The CEO of Lockheed Martin makes roughly $30 million. $80,000 x 200 = $16,000,000. Apparently your buddy wasn't worth shit compared to her! lmao! She makes 400X that amount.

Now, you can clearly see that I am far more intelligent and educated than you. If you think that I am a cashier, you must be an unemployed bum! :lol:

Did you miss my point about how effective worker councils are in Germany at boosting profits and raising morale?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinebennylava
Bad example


Registered: 05/29/15
Posts: 587
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22353443 - 10/09/15 07:17 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:


I didn't say 5000X lmao! God damn dude. :facepalm:

The CEO of Lockheed Martin makes roughly $30 million. $80,000 x 200 = $16,000,000. Apparently your buddy wasn't worth shit compared to her! lmao! She makes 400X that amount.

Now, you can clearly see that I am far more intelligent and educated than you. If you think that I am a cashier, you must be an unemployed bum! :lol:

Did you miss my point about how effective worker councils are in Germany at boosting profits and raising morale?





What was it you said then, was it a percentage? Oh I'm so sorry, I placed an "X" where I should have placed a "%".  You really think those german companies can compete with the titanic profits of many other companies around the world? NONE of whom share their opinions on giving workers some kind of say in how the company runs. Yeah you probably think that. You probably think they're as profitable.

And they'll never be. Letting vote themselves to the top of their pay grade (much like labor unions that go beyond even that) doesn't improve profit margins.

Lastly, I can tell you're a clerk, by you getting all defensive. Go to college and you won't have to bellyache about your situation and that you don't have control over your job.


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