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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22340401 - 10/06/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Ever heard of "renters rights"? I guess they don't have those in germany...


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22340484 - 10/06/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Ever heard of "renters rights"? I guess they don't have those in germany...




I wouldn't know, I'm not familiar with German renter law, and certainly wouldn't choose to learn about it from a wnd article.


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: psyconaught]
    #22340859 - 10/06/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I would really like to see a government implemented German worker council style of business. It works fucking great, and it would do a lot to level the wage gap in America, without a need for union involvement.



See I don't have a problem with wage gaps. I don't care what the top makes to be honest, it doesnt affect me. And honestly i done understand the obsession with it.




It is unsustanable, it gives them power over government, it pushes wages of average citizens down across the board, and makes them reliant on welfare programs, even while employed full time. The wage gap makes our economy unstable. If you look just before the great depression, and the recession, these are the two times when the income disparity was at it's highest. There have been many studies which reveal that large income disparities within a society lead to increased incidence of mental illness, suicide, drug addiction, and crime rate (all of these occur more frequently in the wealthy and the poor).

It is a problem.

On top of that, it makes unqualified people the deciders of where a society should focus its resources, and what goals that society wishes to acheive. Thankfully, there are some billionaires, like Elon Musk, who make very good decisions, but there are others, like the Koch Brothers and the Waltons.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (10/06/15 12:13 PM)


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22340885 - 10/06/15 12:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I would really like to see a government implemented German worker council style of business. It works fucking great, and it would do a lot to level the wage gap in America, without a need for union involvement.




and now the germans are evicting people from their homes to make way for refugees... ffs


http://www.wnd.com/2015/10/germans-evicted-to-make-room-for-syrian-refugees/




Look up the term 'non-sequiter', seriously.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #22341056 - 10/06/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I would really like to see a government implemented German worker council style of business. It works fucking great, and it would do a lot to level the wage gap in America, without a need for union involvement.




and now the germans are evicting people from their homes to make way for refugees... ffs


http://www.wnd.com/2015/10/germans-evicted-to-make-room-for-syrian-refugees/




Look up the term 'non-sequiter', seriously.




Non sequitur* but yeah its seriously every post with this guy.


Rather than dive into a topic and actually get wet, he's just hopping from puddle to puddle.

You see the same thing when people try to refute the applicability of socialism. They make a (flawed) point, you refute it, they hop to the next point. Then by the time they've circled back around, you're tired of repeating yourself and they strut around like they've won.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22341197 - 10/06/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Who exactly do you think private business owners are? I've been an owner of multiple business's over the coarse of my life. Roughly half of the national GPD is small business owners, people like you, me, your neighbors, etc. They are not some external force that exist outside of the normal public, they are the public.




First let me point out how amazing it is that every single conservative poster on this drug forum is or was a small business owner.

Second, explain to me how small business owners would get screwed under a socialist economy anymore than they are now. Because as it stands they're paying all the dues that the super rich pay with nearly none of the benefits.



its not that hard to be a small business owner :shrug: I had a business mowing lawns when i was in high school and feeding farm animals when i was in Jr. high. Its not some unimaginably difficult thing to do, nor does it imply they are all making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, mine were all just fun money ventures.

And i never made the claim that small businesses would suffer under a socialist economy.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: psyconaught]
    #22341304 - 10/06/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

All business owners are millionaires, that's why it's okay for Obama and the dems to raise their taxes, they're hoarding all the money, taking advantage of their employees and exploiting everyone...


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22341326 - 10/06/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
All business owners are millionaires, that's why it's okay for Obama and the dems to raise their taxes, they're hoarding all the money, taking advantage of their employees and exploiting everyone...



Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:


Look up the term 'non-sequiter', seriously.




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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: psyconaught] * 1
    #22341337 - 10/06/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Who exactly do you think private business owners are? I've been an owner of multiple business's over the coarse of my life. Roughly half of the national GPD is small business owners, people like you, me, your neighbors, etc. They are not some external force that exist outside of the normal public, they are the public.




First let me point out how amazing it is that every single conservative poster on this drug forum is or was a small business owner.

Second, explain to me how small business owners would get screwed under a socialist economy anymore than they are now. Because as it stands they're paying all the dues that the super rich pay with nearly none of the benefits.



its not that hard to be a small business owner :shrug: I had a business mowing lawns when i was in high school and feeding farm animals when i was in Jr. high. Its not some unimaginably difficult thing to do, nor does it imply they are all making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, mine were all just fun money ventures.

And i never made the claim that small businesses would suffer under a socialist economy.




I'm not saying they are, I just think it's weird how every conservative here seems to be the stereotypical hard working small business owning Joe six pack. I'm not discrediting anyone based on that, I just think people use it as a crutch for their arguments. For example, you're not allowed to tell zappa shit about the economy because he owns a construction company. :facepalm:

And yeah, didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I just assumed you were implying that I had overlooked the interconnectedness of small business in my examination of socialism. Sorry.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #22343466 - 10/06/15 11:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

the reason i had brought up small businesses was because you were making claims about putting the power back in the hands of the people. But business owners/operators ARE the people.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: psyconaught]
    #22344134 - 10/07/15 06:22 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

There are many different flavors of socialism on the sliding scale of public ownership, we don't have to erase private business to accomplish some sort of homeostasis (i.e. Western Europe).


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22344239 - 10/07/15 07:33 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The thing about business is that it's rarely democratic.  We spend most of our time at work and it's the one thing most of us get the least say in.

Germany's democratic work laws only affect larger businesses (I want to say 200+ and 500+).

Personally I plan to start a workers co-op once I get my edible business off the ground.  It would be nice to see incentives and tax breaks for people like me that want to put ourselves and others to work in non-capitalist ventures.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: psyconaught]
    #22346193 - 10/07/15 03:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
the reason i had brought up small businesses was because you were making claims about putting the power back in the hands of the people. But business owners/operators ARE the people.




A very, very small portion of the people, yes.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22346198 - 10/07/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
The thing about business is that it's rarely democratic.  We spend most of our time at work and it's the one thing most of us get the least say in.

Germany's democratic work laws only affect larger businesses (I want to say 200+ and 500+).

Personally I plan to start a workers co-op once I get my edible business off the ground.  It would be nice to see incentives and tax breaks for people like me that want to put ourselves and others to work in non-capitalist ventures.




Edible mushrooms? We should talk, buddy :smile:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinebennylava
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22346212 - 10/07/15 03:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
The thing about business is that it's rarely democratic.  We spend most of our time at work and it's the one thing most of us get the least say in.





That's for good reason. Nobody is qualified to everyone else's job. Best leave each person to what they're expertise is in.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
    #22346284 - 10/07/15 04:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bennylava said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
The thing about business is that it's rarely democratic.  We spend most of our time at work and it's the one thing most of us get the least say in.





Nobody is qualified to everyone else's job. Best leave each person to what they're expertise is in.




I agree.

Which is why I believe people that actually do the job have the best understanding of how much their job is worth, how big of a budget they need, what kind of manpower is required, etc. etc.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22346494 - 10/07/15 05:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Quote:

bennylava said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
The thing about business is that it's rarely democratic.  We spend most of our time at work and it's the one thing most of us get the least say in.





Nobody is qualified to everyone else's job. Best leave each person to what they're expertise is in.




I agree.

Which is why I believe people that actually do the job have the best understanding of how much their job is worth, how big of a budget they need, what kind of manpower is required, etc. etc.




Except CEO's, them fuckers have NO idea what their job is worth...right?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22346542 - 10/07/15 05:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Quote:

bennylava said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
The thing about business is that it's rarely democratic.  We spend most of our time at work and it's the one thing most of us get the least say in.





Nobody is qualified to everyone else's job. Best leave each person to what they're expertise is in.




I agree.

Which is why I believe people that actually do the job have the best understanding of how much their job is worth, how big of a budget they need, what kind of manpower is required, etc. etc.




Except CEO's, them fuckers have NO idea what their job is worth...right?




Another non sequitur


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22346631 - 10/07/15 05:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Really? A guy posts that those that do their job are best suited to decide their worth, which I agree with btw, I was just pointing out hippocracy of those that believe CEO's shouldn't be paid what they're worth...

Are you really that dumb?


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #22346872 - 10/07/15 06:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Really? A guy posts that those that do their job are best suited to decide their worth, which I agree with btw, I was just pointing out hippocracy of those that believe CEO's shouldn't be paid what they're worth...

Are you really that dumb?




CEO's are paid above and beyond what they are worth, and they are the only ones who make decisions about what a company pays its employees.

What the fuck are you talking about dude? CEO's weren't even mentioned here. You should take your eyes off wall streets cock for 2 seconds if you want to be part of a real discussion.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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