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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22319135 - 10/01/15 01:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

^ exactly.

The USPS is forced to produce enough of a surplus to cover FUTURE expenses.

It's like telling you "ok, I'll give you this car loan for $25,000, so long as you have $25,000 in your savings account."

Riiiighhhttt


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22319157 - 10/01/15 01:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
^ exactly.

The USPS is forced to produce enough of a surplus to cover FUTURE expenses.

It's like telling you "ok, I'll give you this car loan for $25,000, so long as you have $25,000 in your savings account."

Riiiighhhttt




Yep. It was decided that the internet will kill revenue for the postal service, so they were mandated to produce a $10 billion surplus to cover then next 18 years (if I remember correctly). Republicans want them to raise their prices unreasonably, so they are no longer competitive, and the PO fails. Republicans are a fucking cancer. If they really believe their fucking horse shit, they wouldn't have to play dirty to prove their economic garbage.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22319418 - 10/01/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

the post office produces a surplus.




Why do keep saying this? Ive asked twice for you to prove it, I guess you can't...


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Edited by hostileuniverse (10/01/15 02:28 PM)


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22319464 - 10/01/15 02:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

At the Board meeting, the Postal Service reported that operating revenue increased $569 million in fiscal year 2014 (Oct. 1, 2013 – Sept. 30, 2014). Excluding a one-time adjustment to revenue of $1.3 billion in 2013 resulting from a change in accounting estimate for Forever stamps, 2014 operating revenue would have increased by $1.9 billion. This revenue growth resulted from the January 2014 price increase and strong growth in the Shipping and Packages business. Offsetting this positive news, however, were legislative burdens and constraints that contributed to a $5.5 billion net loss in 2014. This eighth consecutive annual net loss underscores the need for comprehensive legislation to repair the Postal Service’s broken business model.
The net loss includes $5.7 billion for the prefunding requirement of the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefit Fund and an additional $1.2 billion in non-cash workers’ compensation expense, consisting of $485 million related to changes in interest rates and $697 million of other non-cash workers’ compensation expense. These items are outside of management’s control.
“We have grown our revenue for two years in a row, primarily through growth in our package business and price changes, and we are making strong progress in many core areas of our business — from operational performance, to data and technology use, to developing and marketing new products and services — all of which are helping to build a strong foundation for the future of the organization,” said Postmaster General and CEO Patrick R. Donahoe. “While we still have major issues to resolve with regard to our business model and legislative constraints, our message today is about momentum and progress.”
“In 2014 we set another record for productivity,” said Chief Financial Officer and Executive Vice President Joseph Corbett. “Even as we continued growing our package business, we reduced work hours, transportation expenses, and compensation and benefits expenses.
“The legally mandated $5.7 billion prefunding requirement for the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefit Fund contributed to our continuing losses,” said Corbett. “Due to lack of sufficient cash, we were forced to default on the $5.7 billion prepayment, underscoring the need for legislative change.”




Note that most of their problems are due to legislation no other private or public entity is expected to be able to comply with.

I posted this and some other links a few pages back.  Not sure why we're still beating this dead horse.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2012-08-02/understanding-the-post-office-s-benefits-mess

https://www.uspsoig.gov/blog/be-careful-what-you-assume

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45018432


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22319533 - 10/01/15 02:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Right, Republicans are using crony tactics to regulate the Post Office out of the market so they can point a finger and say private business does it better. They're always destroying shit and then blaming government for it. Its a governmental planned obsolescence of sorts. They will stoop so low as to hurt peoples jobs and their livelihood to win an economic argument based on lives.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22319603 - 10/01/15 03:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

If they are not making enough to meet the requirements, then they are in the red. Why shouldn't they have to make enough to cover their pension programs? Who should pay their pensions? I'm confused as to why any other company is expected to meet its financial obligations, but the USPS is not...


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Posts: 1,888
Re: Capitalism at work [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22319661 - 10/01/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It's future pension funds.  When you hire someone at 18 you don't have to have their entire pension fund until they retire at 65.  The post office does.

They're in the red because of this legislation.  It was passed in 2006 when the fear was that email would destroy the post office.  Between then and now eBay, Amazon, etc. have taken off and the post office has benefited greatly.

More than any other public institution the post office operates like a private business.  They're really not the best case for privitizing the public sector.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22319716 - 10/01/15 03:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
I heard the post office is raising the price of stamps again.  Seems they need to buy more 'THis window closed' signs.


Honestly the PO is fast, and has good rates.  But I do believe they are running on borrowed money--from the government.  They are no longer self-sustaining, but they used to be.






Quote:

Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act

Section(s) 801-805

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/hr6407/text








Wow!    They made a bill saying the post office has to be accountable.  Now, tell me what their profits are for every year since that bill has passed.  :smirk:


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22319722 - 10/01/15 03:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
I heard the post office is raising the price of stamps again.  Seems they need to buy more 'THis window closed' signs.


Honestly the PO is fast, and has good rates.  But I do believe they are running on borrowed money--from the government.  They are no longer self-sustaining, but they used to be.






Quote:

Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act

Section(s) 801-805

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/hr6407/text








Wow!    They made a bill saying the post office has to be accountable.  Now, tell me what their profits are for every year since that bill has passed.  :smirk:




PS:  A quick check online--5 second search--shows they lost 5 billion dollars in 2013.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22319777 - 10/01/15 03:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Wow!    They made a bill saying the post office has to be accountable.  Now, tell me what their profits are for every year since that bill has passed.  :smirk:




PS:  A quick check online--5 second search--shows they lost 5 billion dollars in 2013.




You're source is bunk. The fact that that even sounds realistic in your mind is kind of funny though.

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Wow!    They made a bill saying the post office has to be accountable.  Now, tell me what their profits are for every year since that bill has passed.  :smirk:




It has nothing to do with making them accountable.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22320030 - 10/01/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


You're source is bunk. The fact that that even sounds realistic in your mind is kind of funny though.




Then give us a source that outlines how profitable they are...

Anytime i post anything it's bombarded by replies demanding a source...:rolleyes:


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22320254 - 10/01/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:


You're source is bunk. The fact that that even sounds realistic in your mind is kind of funny though.




Then give us a source that outlines how profitable they are...

Anytime i post anything it's bombarded by replies demanding a source...:rolleyes:




You want me to provide a source for my argument against his unsourced claim?

The postal service has been mandated to set aside $5.5 Billion a year for the next 75 years to cover retirement costs of people who haven't even been born yet. If they "lost" $5 billion dollars, what that really means is they had a $500 million surplus, not including this ridiculous mandate. The postal service hasn't received one fucking time from the Federal government since it transitioned in the early 80's.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22320348 - 10/01/15 06:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:


You're source is bunk. The fact that that even sounds realistic in your mind is kind of funny though.




Then give us a source that outlines how profitable they are...

Anytime i post anything it's bombarded by replies demanding a source...:rolleyes:




You want me to provide a source for my argument against his unsourced claim?

The postal service has been mandated to set aside $5.5 Billion a year for the next 75 years to cover retirement costs of people who haven't even been born yet. If they "lost" $5 billion dollars, what that really means is they had a $500 million surplus, not including this ridiculous mandate. The postal service hasn't received one fucking time from the Federal government since it transitioned in the early 80's.





Read 'em and weep.....

http://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2013/pr13_087.htm

:smirk:


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22320367 - 10/01/15 06:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumerawareness/a/Postal-Service-Loses-By-Year.htm

yes, they have to set aside 5 billion a year.  The net loss per year is what is lost AFTER 5 billion is set aside.

Or should they just let the bank account go dry for retirees and renege in 20 or 30 years. 

THEY ARE LOSING MONEY.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22320496 - 10/01/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:


You're source is bunk. The fact that that even sounds realistic in your mind is kind of funny though.




Then give us a source that outlines how profitable they are...

Anytime i post anything it's bombarded by replies demanding a source...:rolleyes:




You want me to provide a source for my argument against his unsourced claim?

The postal service has been mandated to set aside $5.5 Billion a year for the next 75 years to cover retirement costs of people who haven't even been born yet. If they "lost" $5 billion dollars, what that really means is they had a $500 million surplus, not including this ridiculous mandate. The postal service hasn't received one fucking time from the Federal government since it transitioned in the early 80's.





Read 'em and weep.....

http://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2013/pr13_087.htm

:smirk:




Right. It says right on the page that their "losses" are due to the government mandate, which requires $5.5 billion extra to be stashed away yearly.

As I said, they didn't have losses.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22320542 - 10/01/15 06:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It's OK Bigbad you can prove your ignorance about economics....

Definition:

net loss

The bottom line of the income statement when revenues and gains are less than the aggregate amount of cost of goods sold, operating expenses, losses, and income taxes (if the company is a regular corporation).

And this fucking private monopoly doesn't even have to pay taxes!!!


I dont care if God Almight Proclaimed that the PO has to pay 5 billion a year, it is an OPERATING EXPENSE.

You want the definition of that too? Let me know if you want class to continue because I'm going to school your ass on economics.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22320553 - 10/01/15 06:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, I'm sorry Bigbad....isn't the government regulating and making rules supposed to be good?

How's that 5 Billion dollar mandate working out for ya?  :smirk:


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22320628 - 10/01/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
It's OK Bigbad you can prove your ignorance about economics....

Definition:

net loss

The bottom line of the income statement when revenues and gains are less than the aggregate amount of cost of goods sold, operating expenses, losses, and income taxes (if the company is a regular corporation).

And this fucking private monopoly doesn't even have to pay taxes!!!


I dont care if God Almight Proclaimed that the PO has to pay 5 billion a year, it is an OPERATING EXPENSE.

You want the definition of that too? Let me know if you want class to continue because I'm going to school your ass on economics.




Hardly. If you understood economics, you'd be a Marxist ;-)

You're missing the entire point that I've been making since I first mentioned the post office. The only reason they're running a deficit is because Republicans are regulating the USPS out of the market with mandates that its competitors are not subjected to.

If there are two dairy farms, and one of them is making a profit of $1 Billion a year, and the other makes $2 Billion a year, but the government mandates it stash $7 Billion a year aside, is the model of the second business less profitable? Afterall, we're talking about the business model of a government run business, and its viability.

The world doesn't operate in black and white. There's much more involved in economics than the bottom line, not that your conservative mind can grasp that concept! lmao

How about a Democrat comes along and makes UPS and Fedex stash $1 Trillion a year? Their bottom line says they're $1 Trillion in the red. By your argument, the public sector would be the only way to go in that scenario.

School me on economics? Not even in your wildest dreams, brotha.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22320703 - 10/01/15 07:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

UPS and FED ex are mandated to pay--social security, and federal and state income taxes which are exempted for the Post Office.  UPS and FED EX make profits--if they don't they will close.

The bottom line is the bottom line-the USPS is bleeding and the government cant stop it.  Now please explain to me, if your NET LOSS is 5 billion dollars, how are you running a profit?


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22320760 - 10/01/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Now just a second bigbad...i might concede something.....hmmmm..you say congressional (government) mandates are causing problems for the PO?  Hmmmmm


Mandates.....mandate.....government mandate....now where have I heard that before?  Was it in the healthcare law? :smirk:


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