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OfflineMushandRooms
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Registered: 09/23/15
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Coir questions on pasteurization
    #22279174 - 09/23/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I am an odd ball so I am very technical, I apologize if this is explained somewhere and I have missed it. I have done many cake teks with success and some small casings but want to attempt a nice mono. I have read a lot of RR post and so far have concluded this mixture for my plan:
                          4 Bricks of Coco Coir
                          8 QTS of Vermiculite
                          20 QTS Spawn
                          5-10% Gypsum for Coir
                  1 tsp lime per cup of coir after hydrated

Now I have read of pouring boiling water over the coir, letting it expand then pasteurizing. BUTTTT Wouldn't adding boiling water on the coir sterilize it making the pasteurization process useless? Should I use warm water to broken up coir (not above 170 F) same with the verm, add my lime then pasteurize so that the coir avoids any sort of bacterial bloom?


Edited by MushandRooms (09/23/15 02:51 PM)


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: MushandRooms]
    #22279218 - 09/23/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

How big is the monotub you want to make man!?

Usual mix is 1 brick, 2 qts verm, half quart gypsum, 2-6 quarts spawn
based on your preferences.

That amount you listed is enough for 4 tubs

Boiling water is fine, coir can be fully sterilized no problem as long
as your spawn is clean. Also, no need for lime, just gypsum


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OfflineMushandRooms
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: natedawgnow]
    #22279271 - 09/23/15 03:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Uh hahaha a pretty big one :P hence why I quadrupled the amounts, what can I say, go big or go home? From what I have looked up lime is great for coco coir as coirs PH is usually at around 5 which is great for mushrooms, but also great for bacteria such as trich. Since lime raises the ph to around 8, the mycellium can tolerate it but it is harder for contams to grow with the higher PH. And then gypsum is only good for helping the PH stay stable while the mycellium metabolizes, which can cause acidity swings.

So I could see why sterilization is okay with coir as long as the lime is added to help raise the ph?

But thank you! That makes much more sense! Ill be sure to get a grow log of this!


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OfflineDeTwizzle
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: MushandRooms]
    #22279274 - 09/23/15 03:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Is this your first go at growing?


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OfflineMushandRooms
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: DeTwizzle]
    #22279283 - 09/23/15 03:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've been doing cakes and small monotubs with straw for a few years on and off, first go with coir.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: MushandRooms]
    #22279285 - 09/23/15 03:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MushandRooms said:
Uh hahaha a pretty big one :P hence why I quadrupled the amounts, what can I say, go big or go home? From what I have looked up lime is great for coco coir as coirs PH is usually at around 5 which is great for mushrooms, but also great for bacteria such as trich. Since lime raises the ph to around 8, the mycellium can tolerate it but it is harder for contams to grow with the higher PH. And then gypsum is only good for helping the PH stay stable while the mycellium metabolizes, which can cause acidity swings.

So I could see why sterilization is okay with coir as long as the lime is added to help raise the ph?

But thank you! That makes much more sense! Ill be sure to get a grow log of this!




Prepare for miserable failure if this is your attitude. Tubs of that
magnitude are WAY more susceptible to contamination.

Is your spawn already made up? I would hate to put allllll my eggs in
one basket like that; Especially if this is your first grow.

You should make 4 tubs, dude. Trust me


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OfflineSpiracha
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: natedawgnow]
    #22279306 - 09/23/15 03:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid:
Mycelium produces co2 and thus heat, and because when you go big like that the heat turns the whole tub into a contamination risk.
You will see much better results from a number of smaller tubs.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: natedawgnow]
    #22279321 - 09/23/15 03:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid::whathesaid::whathesaid::whathesaid: look up what too much substrate will do.. aka thermal substrates. Much like compost it will heat up, and the thicker you make it the more the entire substrate will heat up. The hotter you get, the better pretty much every contam will thrive.


--------------------
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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: natedawgnow]
    #22279327 - 09/23/15 03:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Dude... you do not need lime; I promise.

Coir is extremely contam resistant on its own. If you
have clean spawn, you should not be worrying too much about contams.

If you are truly worried about contamination, make smaller tubs.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: MushandRooms]
    #22279335 - 09/23/15 03:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

CVG! Coir Verm and Gypsum. It ain't cvl budday


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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OfflineMushandRooms
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: natedawgnow]
    #22279348 - 09/23/15 03:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Okay, I will do smaller tubs, basic 66 quarts, and 3.5-4 inches of substrate. True point, did not consider the heat buildup. Is the lime info outdated then??


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: MushandRooms]
    #22279371 - 09/23/15 03:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Lime is good for raising the ph of casing layers made of peat,
which is not very contam resistant.


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OfflineMushandRooms
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: natedawgnow]
    #22279394 - 09/23/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Shit, you're right, i'm over thinking this  :bow2:


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: MushandRooms]
    #22280106 - 09/23/15 06:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yes lime is used in casing layers because they do not get fully colonized, bulk subs get colonized so it's useless


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: MushandRooms]
    #22280145 - 09/23/15 06:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

From having read a considerable amount on coir, Pasteurizing it is not important.  Some people sterilize it, some people pasteurize it, some people bucket tek it, some people nuke it.  It seems that what's important is that you cook your coir a bit to make it more digestible and nutritious.  It is not contam prone.  If it contaminates, it's probably bad spawn or improper hydration.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22280172 - 09/23/15 07:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yea 20 qts will do 4 to 5 regular size monos


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Coir questions on pasteurization [Re: mushpunx]
    #22280499 - 09/23/15 08:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wouldn't adding boiling water on the coir sterilize it making the pasteurization process useless?



Pretty much but heat treatment can do more than pasteurize. For instance there are waxes produced by plants as a sort of sealant and the heat melts those substances making the plant matter easier to penetrate and some cases greatly increasing the rate the substrate absorbs water.


Coir fiber before and after heat treatment


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Edited by Kizzle (09/23/15 08:23 PM)


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