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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: GRAVE]
#22284903 - 09/24/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Everything except the last bit where you appeal to solipsism, provided I read what you wrote correctly. That would not be terribly interesting.
Quote:
and by connecting to the symbolism necessary within your own psychology to affect your perceived environment. In my opinion the validity of the magical nature of things does not infringe upon its actual outcome in the world at large but instead is more important to the world inside yourself.

My internal symbolism, whatever that might be, has little to do with external effects in other people as reported by them following the exercise of shamanic healing. I don't even have to prompt them to share what they've observed as a result, they do so spontaneously.
My connection with what appear as spiritual forces that work changes in the external environment that are obvious to many others has little do with my perception of the environment, unless you want to posit that the ENTIRE EXTERNAL REALITY - including you and everything that can be said to exist - is somehow generated in and resides only within my own mind. Which is a well documented form of mental illness, therefore inherently suspect, even if it has spawned an entire branch of philosophy.
The "magical" nature doesn't "infringe" upon the world at large because it is inherent in the world at large, but mostly untapped by ordinary human activities and modes of consciousness. Most people seem to really want this to remain true, it gives them a form of comfort IMHO.
The demonstrable nature of these "magical" occurrences and events argues strongly in favor of their independent reality. In theory, a machine could be built that would emulate the operation of the brain that invokes them.
Anyway, I think the OP is just using the common shorthand meaning of "magical drugs" and doesn't intend to claim that there's some sort of "magic" in the drugs themselves, but rather in their effects.
The thing about the "supernatural" is that everything's, by necessity, natural if it occurs in nature. These "magical" events either occur or they don't. I have some hard evidence that they occur and I'm seeking more. For me that makes them natural, not "magical", albeit inexplicable to some degree...
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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4HO-DMT


Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: superbob57]
#22284958 - 09/24/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I definitely think that Albert Hoffman was a magician. Have you ever met an old head that has been taking LSD for decades? Often times they are like wizards. In fact, I know a guy that has the nickname, "The Wizard" He's an old head.
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GRAVE
trippy by nature



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 229
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#22285300 - 09/24/15 06:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Everything except the last bit where you appeal to solipsism, provided I read what you wrote correctly. That would not be terribly interesting.
My internal symbolism, whatever that might be, has little to do with external effects in other people as reported by them following the exercise of shamanic healing. I don't even have to prompt them to share what they've observed as a result, they do so spontaneously.
My connection with what appear as spiritual forces that work changes in the external environment that are obvious to many others has little do with my perception of the environment, unless you want to posit that the ENTIRE EXTERNAL REALITY - including you and everything that can be said to exist - is somehow generated in and resides only within my own mind. Which is a well documented form of mental illness, therefore inherently suspect, even if it has spawned an entire branch of philosophy.
The "magical" nature doesn't "infringe" upon the world at large because it is inherent in the world at large, but mostly untapped by ordinary human activities and modes of consciousness. Most people seem to really want this to remain true, it gives them a form of comfort IMHO.
The demonstrable nature of these "magical" occurrences and events argues strongly in favor of their independent reality. In theory, a machine could be built that would emulate the operation of the brain that invokes them.
Anyway, I think the OP is just using the common shorthand meaning of "magical drugs" and doesn't intend to claim that there's some sort of "magic" in the drugs themselves, but rather in their effects.
The thing about the "supernatural" is that everything's, by necessity, natural if it occurs in nature. These "magical" events either occur or they don't. I have some hard evidence that they occur and I'm seeking more. For me that makes them natural, not "magical", albeit inexplicable to some degree... 
Yeah I really didn't intend the solipsism. What I meant by that poorly written section was more along the lines of this: IMO The validity of your "magical" or "mystical" experience is irrelevant to the world outside of the experience. Essentially trying to say that it doesn't matter if it's just part of the trip you are on that some inexplicable thing happens. The experience of having the laws of nature we are used to being bent can be made meaningful enough for it to stay with you, and for that experience to shape your world and who you become outside of the trip. For instance you made a reference to shamanic healing. In my own shamanic practice I intend to create meaning inside of a ceremony that appeals to my clients own set of symbols. I use the symbols that are important to them in order to make the experience translate more easily. I use the symbols that have appeared to me in my mystical and transcendental states, that have given me power and by having a bit of both of our worlds, I attempt to create a bridge between us in order to do the work necessary to "heal". I guess I was just trying to say that some magic doesn't have to be witness able to others outside of your own experience of it. That the strange solitary magic that sometimes occurs in a psychedelic trip carries its own special flavor that is just as unique and inexplicable as any. You don't need proof of your magic to feel magical inside of a psychedelic state. I think that's a huge draw of the medicine honestly. lol hence "Magic mushrooms"
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Journeys taken: Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe Cyanescens, MDMA, MDA, Methylone, San Pedro, Ketamine, Anesket, Peruvian torch, LSD, 25c, DMT, Float tank, Yerbamina.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: GRAVE]
#22285752 - 09/24/15 07:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh well. Of course it's meaningful when the "laws of nature" get bent, but this is an independent (and confusing) event outside of yet intimately related to the drug itself - i.e., the drug potentiates some sort of seemingly inexplicable occurrence that is all too easy to rationalize away. I did that for a long time, actually had a divided mind about it, until undergoing some experiences that were so strange - and yet obviously real - that I simply had to accept "yes this is really happening." It's what you do next that matters, IME.
The source however - it always appears to be the same. Regardless of the use to which it's put, regardless of the intention. Touching the Tao.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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GRAVE
trippy by nature



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 229
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#22285900 - 09/24/15 08:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I honestly think we're on the same page.
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Journeys taken: Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe Cyanescens, MDMA, MDA, Methylone, San Pedro, Ketamine, Anesket, Peruvian torch, LSD, 25c, DMT, Float tank, Yerbamina.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: GRAVE]
#22286206 - 09/24/15 09:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yup.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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DaveyJones6911
Nonconformist


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 690
Loc: EU
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#22297026 - 09/27/15 04:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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so the ultimate conclusion here is: magic isn't real?
-------------------- Creativity is a dangerous thing in the eyes of those who don't have any.
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superbob57
The Hobbit from the Shire



Registered: 05/21/05
Posts: 3,146
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 7 months, 7 days
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Quote:
DaveyJones6911 said: so the ultimate conclusion here is: magic isn't real?
Where Concluding it is the Magic of Science!
-------------------- If I run full blast, I'll never get tired and If I slow down I get stuck, so I opened my mind and let the wild things in and there not going away but getting stronger, day by day, I will find the source of all things it's only a matter of time and I will be one with the universe once again my friends...I will never find the end but the start of a new begining...-J.R.S.A Man Of Experiences ...IV 4-aco-DMT "Where Fools Rush In, and Angels Fear To Tread..." NN-DMT Pure Magic Wizard Dust! folio]http://www.redbubble.com/people/khaotehk/portfolio[/url] https://youtu.be/C1_YHJDRgqE
   I miss you, I love you my Angel Aimee Renee Orme March 14th 2020. Always and Forever will are Love will go on, Forever & Always are Etched on my Heart. ❤
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moonzo
Getting Better



Registered: 06/04/14
Posts: 3,155
Loc: Kaneta
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: MajickMuffin]
#22297500 - 09/27/15 09:12 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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MajickMuffin said: To answer OP question:
No, drugs are not this worlds majick. But, some have the ability to bring you closer to your natural, hidden power.
We all have ability and power, though not the same levels. We have to figure out how to access this power and practice on ways how to use it, how to manipulate things with it.
-------------------- "I don't make any sense, do not ever listen to me under any circumstance." <-- This is how I am viewed by a regular person in society "Were the aliens nice?" <-- How I hope to be treated on this forum Track record: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=20394867&page=2&vc=1#20394867 Mescapsilosyergictryptamine
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voodoochild1000
psychonautic



Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2,531
Loc: Cascades!
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#22297546 - 09/27/15 09:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Oh well. Of course it's meaningful when the "laws of nature" get bent, but this is an independent (and confusing) event outside of yet intimately related to the drug itself - i.e., the drug potentiates some sort of seemingly inexplicable occurrence that is all too easy to rationalize away. I did that for a long time, actually had a divided mind about it, until undergoing some experiences that were so strange - and yet obviously real - that I simply had to accept "yes this is really happening." It's what you do next that matters, IME.
The source however - it always appears to be the same. Regardless of the use to which it's put, regardless of the intention. Touching the Tao.

....wow....good shit bro!...I'm with u man
-------------------- ....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD ...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post
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voodoochild1000
psychonautic



Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2,531
Loc: Cascades!
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
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The fact is we really don't know s*** about anything even in our so called advanced state of scientific and cultural expansion!
... like I said before the idea of a smartphone in 1650 would just seem like a crazy magical far fetched fantasy. 500 years from now we will look back and realized we have no f****** idea whatsoever
.... there are simply powers beyond our comprehension and I really feel over the course of time that will be found to be 100% true!
-------------------- ....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD ...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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I don't think they're beyond our comprehension at all. The real job is to investigate and understand.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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jahrastafareye
Outcarcerated



Registered: 10/16/13
Posts: 1,898
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#22298594 - 09/27/15 01:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Jenkem is magical. It starts as liquid/solid waste, a chemical reaction occurs and before you know it youre flying high.
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Higher Love
Envisioneer



Registered: 09/24/15
Posts: 384
Loc: PNW
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Animal life on Earth goes back millions of years. Yet most species only use 3 to 5% of its cerebral capacity. But it isn't until we reached human beings at the top of the animal chain that we finally see a species use more of its cerebral capacity. 10% might not seem like much, but it's a lot if you look at all we've done with it. Humans consider themselves unique so they've rooted there whole theory of existence on their uniqueness. One is their unit of measure, but it's not. All social systems we've put into place are a mere sketch. One plus one equals two. That's all we've learned, but one plus one has never equaled two. There are, in fact, no numbers and no letters. We've codified our existence to bring it down to human size to make it comprehensible. We've created a scale so that we can forget its unfathomable scale. Drugs break down a barrier perhaps related to our domestication of "being Human" and "the theory of thinking". Magic? just a word. Living? an action that is eternal in nature and encompasses ALL
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voodoochild1000
psychonautic



Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2,531
Loc: Cascades!
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#22298641 - 09/27/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: I don't think they're beyond our comprehension at all. The real job is to investigate and understand. 
..incomprehensible. ..for now....not forever...yes.....investigate!
-------------------- ....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD ...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post
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Starless
Faux Philosophe



Registered: 05/05/14
Posts: 243
Loc: BC
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: Higher Love]
#22300691 - 09/27/15 09:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Higher Love said: Animal life on Earth goes back millions of years. Yet most species only use 3 to 5% of its cerebral capacity. But it isn't until we reached human beings at the top of the animal chain that we finally see a species use more of its cerebral capacity. 10% might not seem like much, but it's a lot if you look at all we've done with it. Humans consider themselves unique so they've rooted there whole theory of existence on their uniqueness. One is their unit of measure, but it's not. All social systems we've put into place are a mere sketch. One plus one equals two. That's all we've learned, but one plus one has never equaled two. There are, in fact, no numbers and no letters. We've codified our existence to bring it down to human size to make it comprehensible. We've created a scale so that we can forget its unfathomable scale. Drugs break down a barrier perhaps related to our domestication of "being Human" and "the theory of thinking". Magic? just a word. Living? an action that is eternal in nature and encompasses ALL
We use all of our brains, we just usually only use about 10% at any given time.
-------------------- Think, it ain't illegal yet. - George Clinton Substances I have allegedly taken: Cannabis (bud, edibles, and concentrates), Mushrooms (P. Cubensis), LSD, ETH-LAD, ALD-52, DMT, MDMA, Mescaline (Peruvian Torch), 25I-NBOMe, Salvia Divinorum (10x), Syrian Rue, Amanita Muscaria (10x), Cocaine, Nightshade (Henbane). All posts are hypothetical or entirely fictional.
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Higher Love
Envisioneer



Registered: 09/24/15
Posts: 384
Loc: PNW
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: Starless]
#22300933 - 09/27/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Starless said:
Quote:
Higher Love said: Animal life on Earth goes back millions of years. Yet most species only use 3 to 5% of its cerebral capacity. But it isn't until we reached human beings at the top of the animal chain that we finally see a species use more of its cerebral capacity. 10% might not seem like much, but it's a lot if you look at all we've done with it. Humans consider themselves unique so they've rooted there whole theory of existence on their uniqueness. One is their unit of measure, but it's not. All social systems we've put into place are a mere sketch. One plus one equals two. That's all we've learned, but one plus one has never equaled two. There are, in fact, no numbers and no letters. We've codified our existence to bring it down to human size to make it comprehensible. We've created a scale so that we can forget its unfathomable scale. Drugs break down a barrier perhaps related to our domestication of "being Human" and "the theory of thinking". Magic? just a word. Living? an action that is eternal in nature and encompasses ALL
We use all of our brains, we just usually only use about 10% at any given time.
So the statement still stands... Capacity > Utilization
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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: superbob57]
#22300994 - 09/27/15 11:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Obviously
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BigBlueBeast1982
Resident Mutant



Registered: 08/28/14
Posts: 14
Loc: Trinity, FL; In an age of...
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: Ezuma]
#22301045 - 09/27/15 11:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The magic was always within you! The drugs allow you to remember and have access to this magic that has become forgotten over the years. Society and technology is set up in such a way as to cloud our and mask our own natural abilities with frivolous distractions...
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"Nearly all men can handle adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."-- Abraham Lincoln "We buy things we don't need, with money we don't have, to impress people we don't like..."
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: So are drugs this worlds magic??? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#22301209 - 09/28/15 01:49 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: I don't think they're beyond our comprehension at all. The real job is to investigate and understand. 
Exactly^^^...and that unfortunately takes time...
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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