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noobie718
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Registered: 09/14/15
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my firsrt grow
#22278305 - 09/23/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I had experienced cubes on and off due to availability quality and the typical, I decided to start researching the subject a few months ago and decided that I would like to some microscopic study's to further my knowledge and being a first timer, a complete and utter noob I decided to explore the educational value of the pf tek (brf and verm) as a starting point, before I found this forum I was I could say now blindly following one of many pf teks I had found on the web and of course took that teks advice as to where to procure viable spores for my research, so I ordered from a vendor of which I found out later on this forum was essentially providing products that were not viable, so I followed the tek exactly (I am blessed to have equipment acquired from the local college chemistry and biological studies lab after renovations, another mans trash is another ones treasure) proper sterilization of substrates and surrounding environment and ratios I believe to be followed to a T , I am at 7 days on 1 brf/verm jars with no sign of germination or contamination ( not completely worried yet) at a stable temp of 78*F I processed my own brf, I decided to do an LC in attempt to check for viability same temp I used honey at 4% LC is at day 3 and has whit film on the surface of the water which clings to the side when jar is tilted (very interesting) and white specs float around, I'm assuming germination has occurred but still to early to tell. I am at work and have to stop here I will post up dates with pictures any criticism is welcome.
his is day 3 of LC. 9-12-15, there was a white whispy film on the surface of the water and some specs but mostly clear. Still no activity in brf jar same syringe ( golden teachers)

9-13-15 the film on the top of the LC was was gone and it looked like this. turned almost clear.

9-23-15 this is my brf jar so far,

9-23-15 i now have 4 more brf jars and i leaned up on the water in my ratio, which i suspected was the reason my first jar took so long to show any signs of growth/germinate because the 4 new jars only took 6 days on the same spore syringe and are taking off like damn it. will post pics tonight.
heres an update 10-6-15 100% colonized, been consolidating for 3 days going to dunk and roll Friday, I have doubts about the jar that you can see the verm I cant tell if its cob web or if dry layer was to deep on that one and the myc got thin and wispy when it got to the dry layer.. any opinions ???????

Edited by noobie718 (10/06/15 06:28 PM)
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Dionili
Second Rate Mycologist



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lookin good buddy
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noobie718
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Dionili]
#22278513 - 09/23/15 12:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thank you very much, lots of priceless knowledge here in the shroomery
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



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Inoculating LC with spores is bad news. You'll have to count on having really good luck for that not to go south.
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Dionili
Second Rate Mycologist



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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Inocuole]
#22278614 - 09/23/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Inoculating LC with spores is bad news. You'll have to count on having really good luck for that not to go south.
Untrue. I've never had an issue. Just because you can isolate a mono culture and just because it grows faster/better/what ever does not mean MS innoc will always contam. If done right and with properly made syringes you will not have a problem with MS injections
Only if your sterile procedure sucks will you have issues with contamination.
pressure canner is your best friend. so is 90% iso alcohol and bleach. 100% iso is better but you pretty much gotta order it.
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noobie718
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Inocuole]
#22278643 - 09/23/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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i read a thread that a guy wrote about extracting a piece from the center of a stem with a hypo and then pushing it out into the LC solution that struck my interest. what would you suggest for LC? or is it even worth my time as a noob? or should i abandon LC all together and lean more toward making my own prints? that LC was more to determine if my spores were viable, guess i could have used agar, i also made a stupid mistake and didn't make a proper LC jar and when i stuck my hypo into the jar it was under vacuum and sucked a shit load of spore solution into the jar.
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Dionili
Second Rate Mycologist



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Quote:
noobie718 said: i read a thread that a guy wrote about extracting a piece from the center of a stem with a hypo and then pushing it out into the LC solution that struck my interest. what would you suggest for LC? or is it even worth my time as a noob? or should i abandon LC all together and lean more toward making my own prints? that LC was more to determine if my spores were viable, guess i could have used agar, i also made a stupid mistake and didn't make a proper LC jar and when i stuck my hypo into the jar it was under vacuum and sucked a shit load of spore solution into the jar.
lol newbie mistake. happens. well, was the jar at least cool? i doubt you will have an issue. i make hone and LME Lc's and innoc with MS all the time and have no issues. as long as you make a test jar first for common sense rather ruin one then a whole batch. as for that hypo tek i'm not familiar with it. i have heard of others using a scalpel to remove chunks and clone via LC but i do not recommend that. if you need to clone i suggest cloning to agar and isolating a mono culture. its not hard. just requires some sterile procedure. you can use pastywhites agar tek or pour your own agar petris, or order some pre poured petries (sterile and sealed) and save some time and eliminate a contamination variable.
How ever since you are new my advice is to make plenty of grain jars, get a few more syringes, a few more lc jars and make as many as possible while practicing different types of sterile procedure until you figure it out. dont worry about cloning and agar until you are able to grow with out an issue.
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Inocuole
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Dionili]
#22278795 - 09/23/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The more spore solution you injected, the more likely it is that it will have failed.
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noobie718
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Dionili]
#22279001 - 09/23/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the advice, it is rather hard being a first timer because there are so many routes and paths to take, and choices when it comes to teks and what not. it is a bit overwhelming, but as many have said "read the forums" i agree with what you said, ill master the basics and go from there because what Ive come to under stand from reading the forums is that most all seasoned growers started with simple teks and eventually developed their own style.. so it probably would be wise to test my LC with agar ? my order just arrived from night train ! i got burmas. what is your opinion of grain vs brf ?
( i did let the jars cool over night before )
Edited by noobie718 (09/23/15 02:04 PM)
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Dionili
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I started with bulk spawn. Did a couple of pf teks too
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Dionili]
#22279039 - 09/23/15 02:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: You had fine success. This is from a syringe i had the luck of getting.

This particular syringe in lc would have been shit. Luckily I used agar, and was able to salvage it. As seen by me cutting it.
Agar is just as easy to make as LC, and it's much safer. If it's clean spores, great! but I like getting success every time.
That's what I have to say about LC's. I'd say about 50% of the syringes I've gotten had some sort of contamination in them. Maybe I'm just weird, but I totally advocate agar to noobs. It's no harder to do than jello or LC's, and is the best way to improve sterile procedures in your still air box.
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Inocuole
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Quote:
Mad Season said:
Quote:
Mad Season said: You had fine success. This is from a syringe i had the luck of getting.

This particular syringe in lc would have been shit. Luckily I used agar, and was able to salvage it. As seen by me cutting it.
Agar is just as easy to make as LC, and it's much safer. If it's clean spores, great! but I like getting success every time.
That's what I have to say about LC's. I'd say about 50% of the syringes I've gotten had some sort of contamination in them. Maybe I'm just weird, but I totally advocate agar to noobs. It's no harder to do than jello or LC's, and is the best way to improve sterile procedures in your still air box.
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cronicr



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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Inocuole]
#22280081 - 09/23/15 06:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Agreed with inoc, i don't care what anybody says about there success rate with spores to lc i will tell ya strait up it's not the best route to take, if the syringes are clean you can make well over 20 from a print anyway and have 200 jars colonzed in the same timeit would take to colonize your lc from the start....agar man FTW
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noobie718
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wow what a pic, guess I had beginners luck considering I used ms
Edited by noobie718 (09/23/15 07:20 PM)
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noobie718
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any ideas on a quickie fc I was thinking shot gun style I hear a lot about those? so basically agar will allow me to check viability of ms recognize and isolate contam all in one shot sounds like a winner to me
Edited by noobie718 (09/23/15 07:25 PM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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yep sgfc is the go to! mono's for bulk....gh's kick ass too but i would keep it simple for now
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mushpunx
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Yea man it seems most of us have beginners luck
I went ages just putting spore solution to grain before I ever saw a green tub. I thought I was just *that* good
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 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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noobie718
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: mushpunx]
#22280315 - 09/23/15 07:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Inocuole
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: mushpunx]
#22280317 - 09/23/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushpunx said: Yea man it seems most of us have beginners luck
I went ages just putting spore solution to grain before I ever saw a green tub. I thought I was just *that* good 
Same here, bad times.
Why are those PF jars upside down??
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noobie718
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I fucked my hand up and wanted to put coffee filters on (over kill) so I flipped me on the filter held jar with arm and zip tied with good hand.. Yeah I'm a little ocd lol
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newrook
Sucks at bulk



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Quote:
noobie718 said:

Why'd you flip your jars?
And the dry verm layer on top is your contam barrier, leave em alone beyond that - no tinfoil, no ziptied coffee filters, no nothing. Leave them alone, the more you are handling the more you are fucking them up.
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Edited by newrook (09/23/15 07:41 PM)
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mushpunx
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Huh? Did you not use a dry verm layer? Disturbing it can cause dirt to fall into your BRF. Unless u skipped it and used a grain lid filter
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Inocuole
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: mushpunx]
#22282615 - 09/24/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Coffee filters literally don't do shit compared to the dry verm barrier, if you did in fact make one. Mold spores can drive an envoy of semi trucks through a coffee filter. They could lead Mold Air Force One right in there. They don't have to sneak in one by one, they can fit the whole Moldy Trojan Horse inside.
If you did make one, it's extremely endangered by being upside down. And your logic is extremely endangered by allowing yourself to use stuff like cofffee filters without any concern for whether they actually work. These endangered species cannot be allowed to perish. Like, save the whales, man.
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noobie718
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Inocuole]
#22282705 - 09/24/15 09:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah I did a dry verm layer, the tek I read said to use the filters I was just following what I read, granted that was before I discovered the shroomery. So even handling the jars can fuck em up ? just to check I'm cool without micro pore tape or anything as long as I have the dry layer? But since I already have the filters on there would it be best to just leave them alone now ? I'm probably gonna do that. And I'm debating not birthing until they just start to pin, and is it ok to add cakes to the fc as they become ready to fruit or is that a no no ? Sorry about all of the questions hopefully I'll be able to contribute later on
Edited by noobie718 (09/24/15 09:13 AM)
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Inocuole
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The very last question you asked is okay, and you can let them pin first if you really want. I wouldn't suggest doing anything else. I don't even know if I would turn them back upright. The damage could already be done.
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noobie718
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Inocuole]
#22282833 - 09/24/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Is it gravity that effects the myc or possibly contaminating the jars from turning them up side down?. I turned them upright last night and when I woke up this morning the jar to the far left all the myc has connected all the way around the jar and all other jars already show more progress just after 10 hours, I hope I didn't blindly fuck up my first grow.
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noobie718
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ill keep progress pics posted also for any one who is interested or has any comments, criticism or advice, I'm an information junkie (not only information). I'm not going to use my burma ms syringe until these gt's are complete (I don't have the space right now)
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Ajahn Don
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Dionili]
#22283096 - 09/24/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dionili said: so is 90% iso alcohol and bleach. 100% iso is better but you pretty much gotta order it.
This is at odds with what a number of people say. They say 70% is better than 90% iso for sanitizing.
Noobie, you won't be for long. I recommend working with PF-tek, brf cakes and an SGFC until you get really comfortable with growing mushrooms. Almost foolproof and will get you into a lot of the issues of growing, fast. I have found bulk and grain a lot more difficult. More variables. I suspect you'll be having a field day with agar soon, too.
Welcome to this incredily deep hobby. Mad scientists are encouraged here.
-------------------- "He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."
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Inocuole
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Quote:
Ajahn Don said:
Quote:
Dionili said: so is 90% iso alcohol and bleach. 100% iso is better but you pretty much gotta order it.
This is at odds with what a number of people say. They say 70% is better than 90% iso for sanitizing.
Yes it very much is. Anything much greater than 70% lacks the pronounced ability to penetrate cell walls. Too anhydrous at that point. Might as well be using 20% for as effective as 90% or greater is.
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Dionili
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Inocuole]
#22283604 - 09/24/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said:
Quote:
Ajahn Don said:
Quote:
Dionili said: so is 90% iso alcohol and bleach. 100% iso is better but you pretty much gotta order it.
This is at odds with what a number of people say. They say 70% is better than 90% iso for sanitizing.
Yes it very much is. Anything much greater than 70% lacks the pronounced ability to penetrate cell walls. Too anhydrous at that point. Might as well be using 20% for as effective as 90% or greater is.
Quote:
Inocuole said:
Quote:
Ajahn Don said:
Quote:
Dionili said: so is 90% iso alcohol and bleach. 100% iso is better but you pretty much gotta order it.
This is at odds with what a number of people say. They say 70% is better than 90% iso for sanitizing.
Yes it very much is. Anything much greater than 70% lacks the pronounced ability to penetrate cell walls. Too anhydrous at that point. Might as well be using 20% for as effective as 90% or greater is.
True, The reason alcohol disinfects is because it denatures bacteria This is also the reason is works on a wide selection of organisms. the stronger the concentration the quicker the (denaturalization? ) occurs. when this happens to quickly the cells become harder to penetrate.
So i was wrong. I just assumed since there was a quicker denaturization that it would infact disinfect better.
Learn somthin' new every day
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Inocuole
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Dionili]
#22283620 - 09/24/15 12:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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90% is good for... cleaning your bong.
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Dionili]
#22283741 - 09/24/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dionili said: Untrue. I've never had an issue. Just because you can isolate a mono culture and just because it grows faster/better/what ever does not mean MS innoc will always contam. If done right and with properly made syringes you will not have a problem with MS injections
Only if your sterile procedure sucks will you have issues with contamination.
This is really bad advice. Being results oriented with spores > LC is pretty silly. Inocuole isn't saying multi-spore is bad. He's saying multi-spore from a spore syringe to LC is bad because you have no way of knowing if it's clean or not. Because you don't.
Properly made syringes is the key here and syringes often contain dirty spores.
Edited by stareatclouds (09/24/15 12:53 PM)
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Quote:
noobie718 said: Is it gravity that effects the myc or possibly contaminating the jars from turning them up side down?. I turned them upright last night and when I woke up this morning the jar to the far left all the myc has connected all the way around the jar and all other jars already show more progress just after 10 hours, I hope I didn't blindly fuck up my first grow.
It's you disturbing the dry verm barrier which is protecting your substrate from the falling contaminants. The more you fuck with it, the more you displace it, and the more likely it is that contaminants will fall through. You're probably cutting off the gas exchange as well, which can force your jars to stall out due to high CO2 levels.
Just leave the jars right side up and don't touch them at all.
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Inocuole
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Syringes contain dirty what?
Nah, stare's got it down.
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Ajahn Don
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Inocuole]
#22286122 - 09/24/15 09:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Syringes contain dirty what?
Nah, stare's got it down. 
Indeed, stare's the man.
-------------------- "He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."
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noobie718
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Here's an update
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Ajahn Don
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Quote:
noobie718 said: Here's an update
Nothing happened.
-------------------- "He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."
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Inocuole
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noobie718
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Inocuole]
#22385472 - 10/15/15 08:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here's an new update notice the discoloration on the top of the cake on the right I'm worried it is contam but unsure if it could be bruised any input, this is five days after birth
Edited by noobie718 (10/15/15 08:34 PM)
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Kalistis


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Looks like bruising to me, but I haven't done cakes just bulk tubs. How's the FAE?
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Kalistis]
#22385561 - 10/15/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Bro...mist those motherfuckers, get em glistening...keep em glistening..
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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tetherface
get in where you fit in



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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: LocN9ne]
#22385588 - 10/15/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's probably just bruising but keep an eye on it nonetheless looks like ya got a couple nice pins good job
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noobie718
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Kalistis]
#22385956 - 10/15/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I can only fan 3 times a day bc of work, I mist once a day I was misting every time I fanned and the tops of my cakes were soggy so I cut back. Cheap petco hydrometer reads high 90's temps a steady 77 degrees F with a 12 on 12 off light cycle. I heard to much mist can cause aborts so I got paranoid. I'll post pics of the whole fc tomorrow 4 cakes and three have pinned so far the 4th is not showing any signs yet but I'm sure it will soon. Could more pins develop or is what I get in the first few days after pinning starts it until the second flush? Hopefully I get enough for a good journey off of first flush lol so fucking awesome though
Edited by noobie718 (10/15/15 10:19 PM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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Except it doesn't and no one's ever been able to prove it does after how many years? Aborts are from other shit happening. I've drenched fruits and they came out fine. Hell people dunk for 24 hours with pins still attached
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



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try stopping your fanning regimen...and mist the shit out of those cakes one real good time, then only mist when they start to dry up... why is fanning still a thing that you're "supposed to always do"? Causes more harm than good most of the time.
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
Edited by LocN9ne (10/15/15 10:21 PM)
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noobie718
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Wouldn't have been possible without you guys and all the wisdom on here so what's the big hype about fae then ? Or is my sgfc provide enough? And is regular tap water cool ?
Edited by noobie718 (10/15/15 10:25 PM)
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Inocuole
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Fanning is not FAE, nor can it replace it.
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noobie718
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: Inocuole]
#22386130 - 10/15/15 10:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fuck it can't sleep now here's sum more pics
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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A properly constructed SGFC provides ample Fresh Air Exchange...and tap water works just fine.
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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noobie718
Stranger

Registered: 09/14/15
Posts: 28
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: my firsrt grow [Re: LocN9ne]
#22387490 - 10/16/15 08:53 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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So here is the difference 6.5 hours after that heavy mist and the cessation of fanning same mush
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