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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Mycobags, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Wild Bird Seed

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OfflineDrWho
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Registered: 01/08/04
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to bag or jar....
    #2227812 - 01/08/04 11:21 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

hello all...
first post, am newb...

so i am curious for a beginer
what makes better sense a self contained bag,
or to do all that nmucking about with jars & transplating??

i am leanning twords the bagged deal..


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OfflinePaul808996
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: DrWho]
    #2227852 - 01/08/04 11:42 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i would go with jars. the pf tek is probly the best for begginers. its not that hard and you learn more than with bags. bags might be easier but they are alot more expensive and they take longer to grow and you don't really don't learn anything. plus they just are as fun as doing it your self>


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OfflineDrWho
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: Paul808996]
    #2227881 - 01/08/04 11:50 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i would do the mix sterile & inoculate myself.
just got a bag fuser for chistmas & it seem to make more sense...

self contained after pc.


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OfflineJetBlackNinja
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: DrWho]
    #2227889 - 01/08/04 11:52 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Your talking about making your own bags?!?!?!

Not for your first time buddy. Start with the simple methods, then get to that.


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OfflinePaul808996
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: DrWho]
    #2227900 - 01/08/04 11:55 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

yeah. i thought you were talking about mycobags.


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OfflineDrWho
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2227907 - 01/08/04 11:58 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

yeh i was.
but if you think its to difficukt, i will look for some cheap jars


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OfflineSatori1
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: DrWho]
    #2227925 - 01/08/04 12:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Making your own bags is not diffucult. Use a sub like WBS and you simply load WBS into bags just as you would with jars, after soaking. Bags may take longer to colonize because there is much more sub than a jar. Jars are definately more fun for me than bags. The only real difference is the filter patch which makes it very hard to get contams and instead of hard glass holding sub its soft malleable plastic.peace


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OfflineDrWho
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: Satori1]
    #2227934 - 01/08/04 12:15 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

right on
can you elaborate on the filter patch, and if there is any thing i can do after pressure cooking the bags to ensure sterile start?

i am under impression i can inject through bag & tape over.
stick in closet for a week or so. then low light room temp & be fine. once bags a sealed they should produce a bit of gas to protect.

i may put a c02 layer in bag [works with fermenting beer]??

ps.. spell check is cool


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Edited by DrWho (01/08/04 12:16 PM)


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: DrWho]
    #2227972 - 01/08/04 12:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

If you can fit more than one into the P.C. you can seal them before P.C.'ing them and just stick a canning rack ontop of them. I've blown up a pressure cooker doing it with only one, though (small 8 qt. P.C.) with no canning rack on the top, so don't do that....

Otherwise, if you can't pre-seal them the trick is to fold the tops of them kind of lightly like 1/2 inch and fold them over like 3 or 4 times REALLY NEATLY and paperclip the sides so they stay folded in the P.C. and weigh them down with something like a large metal spoon. Contamination won't really get through all of the folds, so as long as they stay folded you should be A-OK, but keep in mind they WILL deform in the P.C. so everything has to be neatly folded inside the P.C. A heat sealer is best, but if you can't you can use a lighter, or tape them shut really well (I've never done that, but people say it works.) Prolly keep them folded if you tape them.

You should really buy bags with the filter-patch already in them. They have some with self-healing rubber injector sites, or you can just seal the hole with the sticky part of a band-aid or whatever (I put duct tape over the band-aid to keep it on.) Always do your inoculations in a very clean room, and rub rubbing alcohol over the part where you inject, like a nurse giving a shot.

Hope that helps a bit....

--
Micro


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OfflineDrWho
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: micro]
    #2227986 - 01/08/04 12:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

right
i bought 18" bags with the filter paper on them
but no injector ring. also picked up an old 25 quart pressure cooker at an antique mall for 25 bucks... tested it twice..

so i think it can hold 3-4 bags. not sure if i should have air in bag, seal then pc? or no air in bag seal & pc.. 1.25 hour at 15.lbs...?

Next Question...
is spent grain from all grain beer [wort] good for sub strait, or should i use whole grain before..


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: DrWho]
    #2228005 - 01/08/04 12:51 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'd let most of the air out first and then seal. I usually keep a bit in, though, or else it'll be vacuum-sealed and that's a bit hard to break up, but it doesn't really matter.

Don't use spent grain -- use good stuff. Brown rice works wonders and it's cheap -- just cook some up -- 6 lbs. of brown rice to 4.5 qts. water in a large pot and stir a lot -- then fill the bags once it's cooked. Simple, huh?

You can also use the PF substrate in the bags -- it has a lot of advantages, but the brown rice flour can get a bit pricey.

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


Edited by micro (01/08/04 12:52 PM)


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OfflineSatori1
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: DrWho]
    #2228011 - 01/08/04 12:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

If ya want to use WBS just soak for 12 hours, skim off most floaters, drain, rinse and drain 'till no more water drips, and load into bags. You can get pre-sealable filter patch bags with self-healing injection site at www.mycobag.com which work great. With the pre-sealable kind you can seal the bag before you sterilize, which drastically cuts down the chance you have to mess up. Someone gave me these picture:

as shown there you can use zip ties to close the bag with 2 zip ties before PC'ing, then after its cooled just innoculate.
As far as C02 is concerned, it is beneficial for mycelial growth. The filter patch will regulate air entry, and protect contams from getting in. No light is wanted during vegetative growth. And 84-86 is best for quick growth.
With this method I've outlined there's not much chance to mess it up.


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OfflineDrWho
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: micro]
    #2228020 - 01/08/04 12:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

since this would be my first time i was gonna do it wacky.
add a ton of nutriant

so a bit of Briess pale ale malt
a bit of rye flower
freashly crushed brown rice to make a flower
then the vermil, all in guessed?? amounts
adding water till moist but not wet..

if i would eat it.. shure a shroom would?
btw.. thanks for all the advice.. good fun..


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Edited by DrWho (01/08/04 01:01 PM)


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: Satori1]
    #2228024 - 01/08/04 12:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

If you already got bags you can pre-seal them -- you don't need a special bag to do this. You do need an airtight seal, though, so if you don't have a heat-sealer you'll need to use a lighter and seal it really well -- no holes.

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


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Anonymous

Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: micro]
    #2228035 - 01/08/04 01:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

before my presealer I would get all the air out the melt it with a lighter as micro said the covered it in 3 layers of duck tape. And the tape dosent hold up all that great during pc'ing. If you do use duck tape make sure you bye the exspensive thick stuff the cheap stuff just melts away. But if you really want to bye some good tape use the aluminum tape but that stuff is really exspensive but it doesnt melt. Anyway melting with a lighter and then duck tape (as extra insurence) will work fine.


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OfflineJetBlackNinja
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: fee]
    #2228176 - 01/08/04 02:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Still this thread started out as "to bag or to jar..." and I am still going to reccommend jars. It's is far more common practice, and you'll learn alot about fungus cultivation along the way.

I have seen several new growers who want to start out at the hardest Tek they can find, and end up quitting altogether in frustration. Bags aren't so tough, but they are NOT where I would reccomened I brand new grower start.


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OfflineDrWho
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2228325 - 01/08/04 02:53 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i am now trying the 1 quart jars first
using 2 row malt.

will try to do the casing thing since that is what every one says to do... :eyemouth: cant wait...


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Edited by DrWho (01/09/04 05:22 PM)


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OfflineDrWho
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Re: to bag or jar.... [Re: DrWho]
    #2231763 - 01/09/04 07:03 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i now have 8 quart jars sterilized, 2/3 filled with beer loving grain...

cant wait to inoculate...

do you guys keep jurnals of all your stuff?
seems like it would make sense...

to blog or not to blog...


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Mycobags, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Wild Bird Seed

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