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OfflineLearyfan
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Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat
    #2227801 - 01/08/04 11:09 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I wish these guys would love it, or leave it.

Yahoo News

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Bush administration officials "systematically" misrepresented the danger of Iraq (news - web sites)'s weapons of mass destruction programs, which were not an immediate threat to the United States and the Middle East, a report from a U.S. think tank said on Wednesday.

The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace said in its study, "WMD IN IRAQ: Evidence and Implications," that there was "no convincing evidence" Iraq had reconstituted its nuclear program and that U.N. weapons inspectors had discovered that nerve agents in Iraq's chemical weapons program had lost most of their lethal capability as early as 1991.

There was greater uncertainty about Iraq's biological weapons, but that threat was related to what could be developed in the future rather than what Iraq already had, the study by the liberal-leaning think tank said.

The missile program appeared to have been in active development in 2002 and Iraq was expanding its capability to build missiles with ranges that exceeded U.N. limits, it said.

The United States justified going to war against Iraq last year citing a threat from Baghdad's weapons of mass destruction.

Since the U.S. occupation of Iraq, American forces hunting for weapons of mass destruction have not found any stockpiles of biological or chemical weapons or any solid evidence Iraq had resurrected its nuclear weapons program.

It was unlikely Iraq could have destroyed, hidden, or moved out of the country hundreds of tons of chemical and biological weapons, dozens of SCUD missiles, and facilities producing chemical and biological weapons without the United States detecting some sign of that activity, the report said.

"Administration officials systematically misrepresented the threat from Iraq's WMD and ballistic missile programs," the report said.

They lumped nuclear, chemical and biological weapons together as a single threat, despite the "very different" danger they posed, which distorted the cost/benefit analysis of the war, the study said.

Administration officials also insisted without evidence that former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) would give weapons of mass destruction to terrorists, the report said.

"There was no evidence to support the claim that Iraq would have transferred WMD to al Qaeda and much evidence to counter it," the report said. There was also no solid evidence of a cooperative relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda, it said.

'UNDULY INFLUENCED'

Prior to 2002, intelligence agencies appeared to have overestimated the chemical and biological weapons in Iraq but had a generally accurate reading of the nuclear and missile programs, the study said.

But from 2002 until the war in Iraq, there appeared to have been an environment of intense political pressure in which an October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq's banned weapons was hurriedly put together and included a high number of dissents in what was supposed to be a consensus document of the various intelligence agencies, the study said. The Pentagon (news - web sites) created a separate intelligence office during that time.

Those factors suggested "the intelligence community began to be unduly influenced by policymakers' views," the study said.

Stuart Cohen, vice chairman of the National Intelligence Council, which produced the National Intelligence Estimate, told ABC's "Nightline" on Tuesday, "Assertions, particularly that we had shaded our judgments to support an administration policy, were just nonsense."




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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: Learyfan]
    #2227976 - 01/08/04 12:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Breathtaking how easy it was to fool the neocons here into buying that horseshit tho. Remember all their panic-stricken posts before the war about "stockpiles of VX gas"?  :rolleyes:


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: Learyfan]
    #2227989 - 01/08/04 12:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's looking more and more like the WMD argument was a load of shit.

Now the question is: did the president know it was a load of shit or
not?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2228002 - 01/08/04 12:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's looking more and more like the WMD argument was a load of shit.

And that's putting it mildly  :smile2:


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2228058 - 01/08/04 01:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Now the question is: did the president know it was a load of shit or
not?




Of course not.




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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2228077 - 01/08/04 01:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
It's looking more and more like the WMD argument was a load of shit.




Looking?! hahahahha......it was laughable when they first brought it up.  I said since day one it was propoganda used to fire up the american ppl....hell most think saddam was behind 911! :lol:

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:Now the question is: did the president know it was a load of shit or
not?




Honestly i can't see how he couldn't...


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2228404 - 01/08/04 03:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

did the president know it was a load of shit or not?

if he knew, he's a liar
if he didn't, he's incompetent

I lean towards the latter

"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence"
- Napoleon


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2228957 - 01/08/04 06:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

that quote may be the only redeeming thing in this thread... :smirk:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: Learyfan]
    #2229042 - 01/08/04 07:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ah.

The problem with this report is that it was produced by a "think tank". As some of the frequent contributors to this forum noted in the thread "The American Poor", think tanks are incapable of producing anything of value because they are inherently biased. *sarcasm*

Seriously though, this report ignores the stockpiles of chem/bio Hussein was known to have possessed and which remain unaccounted for. If we are to believe the reason they haven't been found in Iraq is that they no longer are in Iraq, where are they? Did Hussein destroy them secretly after the inspectors left in 1998? Or did he ship them out of the country in a manner similar to when he shipped his fighters out of the country?

Which scenario do the people in this forum think is more likely?

pinky


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: Phred]
    #2229308 - 01/08/04 08:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

For those of us with short memories, which chem/bio stockpiles are we talking about?


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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisiblephreakyzen
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Registered: 12/16/02
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: Phred]
    #2229746 - 01/08/04 11:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Did Hussein destroy them secretly after the inspectors left in 1998? Or did he ship them out of the country in a manner similar to when he shipped his fighters out of the country?

Which scenario do the people in this forum think is more likely? 





It would be mighty funny if he could ship and hide tons of weapons to other countries but not his own 200lb ass!:grin:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: Edame]
    #2230140 - 01/09/04 02:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Edame writes:

For those of us with short memories, which chem/bio stockpiles are we talking about?

The ones he was known to have. The same ones he admitted having. The inspectors observed the destruction of some of them and verified the prior destruction of another large portion of them.

But not all of them have been accounted for.

This has been discussed, with multiple links, dozens of times before in this forum -- most recently by mushmaster I believe. It's 3:45 am here and I'm off to bed. The search function should let you find a few of the many previous discussions of this if you are interested.

Or google it with something like Iraq WMD destruction timeline verification. The weapons inspectors reports are all archived at the UN website of course, but that site is a major bitch to navigate.

pinky


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: Edame]
    #2230248 - 01/09/04 04:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

For those of us with short memories, which chem/bio stockpiles are we talking about?

The ones that don't exist.

The ones that no Iraqi can lead the americans to either where they were made, or where they were hid. Even if by saying "I was one of the people who  hid them" they could earn themselves multi-million dollars.

Those ones  :smirk:


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: Xlea321]
    #2231147 - 01/09/04 03:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

don't chemical stockpiles expire?

mabye he destroyed them but didn't want to appear weak to his neigboors, thus kept no record.

Its obvious he didn't have them in the country at the time of invasion,or he would have used them.

Its silly to think he shipped them out somewhere else, but failed to account for his own person.

am i missing something?


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: Azmodeus]
    #2231171 - 01/09/04 03:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

doesn't matter. as long as they're not "accounted for", to war!


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2231189 - 01/09/04 03:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But if the chemicals we are talking about have a shelf life, and that time is passed, doesn't that account for them?!  :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: Azmodeus]
    #2231216 - 01/09/04 03:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yeah it certainly does, but not for some people.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2231366 - 01/09/04 04:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ahh..., im starting to see how this works....


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: Azmodeus]
    #2231983 - 01/09/04 08:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mabye he destroyed them but didn't want to appear weak to his neigboors, thus kept no record.

Its obvious he didn't have them in the country at the time of invasion,or he would have used them.

Its silly to think he shipped them out somewhere else, but failed to account for his own person.








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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Think tank report: Iraq WMD not imminent threat [Re: Azmodeus]
    #2232713 - 01/10/04 04:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But if the chemicals we are talking about have a shelf life, and that time is passed, doesn't that account for them?!

I think it was Pinky who insisted the Iraqis had mastered advanced methods of extending shelf life so we should still be worried about the tons of VX gas. (that didn't exist)


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