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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
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Time to go back to Kyoto
    #2227381 - 01/08/04 04:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

An unnatural disaster

? Global warming to kill off 1m species
? Scientists shocked by results of research
? 1 in 10 animals and plants extinct by 2050

Paul Brown, environment correspondent
Thursday January 8, 2004
The Guardian

Climate change over the next 50 years is expected to drive a quarter of land animals and plants into extinction, according to the first comprehensive study into the effect of higher temperatures on the natural world.
The sheer scale of the disaster facing the planet shocked those involved in the research. They estimate that more than 1 million species will be lost by 2050.

The results are described as "terrifying" by Chris Thomas, professor of conservation biology at Leeds University, who is lead author of the research from four continents published today in the magazine Nature.

Much of that loss - more than one in 10 of all plants and animals - is already irreversible because of the extra global warming gases already discharged into the atmosphere. But the scientists say that action to curb greenhouse gases now could save many more from the same fate.

It took two years for the largest global collaboration of experts to make the first major assessment of the effect of climate change on six biologically rich regions of the world taking in 20% of the land surface.

The research in Europe, Australia, Central and South America, and South Africa, showed that species living in mountainous areas had a greater chance of survival because they could simply move uphill to get cooler.

Those in flatter areas such as Brazil, Mexico and Australia, were more vulnerable, faced with the impossible task of moving thousands of miles to find suitable conditions.

Birds, which had the greatest chance of escape, could in theory move to a more suitable climate but the trees and other habitat they needed for survival could not keep pace and all would die.

Professor Thomas said: "When scientists set about research they hope to come up with definite results, but what we found we wish we had not. It was far, far worse than we thought, and what we have discovered may even be an underestimate."

So many species are already destined for extinction because it takes at least 25 years for the greenhouse effect - or the trapping of the sun's rays by the carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide already added to the air - to have its full effect on the planet. Deserts, grasslands and forests are already changing to make survival impossible.

The continuous discharging of more greenhouse gases, particularly by the USA, is making matters considerably worse. The research says if mankind continues to burn oil, coal and gas at the current rate, up to one third of all life forms will be doomed by 2050.

Prof Thomas said it was urgent to switch from fossil fuels to a non-carbon economy as quickly as possible. "It is possible to drastically reduce the output of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and this research makes it imperative we do it as soon as possible. If we can stabilise the climate and even reverse the warming we could save these species, but we must start to act now."

If conservation groups wanted to save species they should devote at least half their energies to political campaigning to reduce global warming because that was the greatest single threat to survival of the species.

John Lanchbery, climate change campaigner for the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, agreed: "This is a deeply depressing paper. President Bush risks having the biggest impact on wildlife since the meteorite that wiped out the dinosaurs.

"At best, in 50 years, a host of wildlife will be committed to extinction because of human-induced climate change. At worst, the outcome does not bear thinking about. Drastic action to cut emissions is clearly needed by everyone, but especially the USA."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,12374,1118281,00.html


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: Xlea321]
    #2227386 - 01/08/04 04:17 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Revealed: how global warming will cause extinction of a million species
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
08 January 2004


A quarter of known land animals and plants, more than a million species, will eventually die out because of the global warming that will take place over the next 50 years, the most important study of its kind has concluded.

International scientists from eight countries have warned that, based even on the most conservative estimates, rising temperatures will trigger a global mass extinction of unprecedented proportions.

They said global warming will set in train a far bigger threat to terrestrial species than previously realised, at least on a par with the already well-documented destruction of natural habitats around the world.

It is the first time such a powerful assessment has been made and its conclusions will shock even those environmentalists accustomed to "worst-case" scenarios.

Professor Chris Thomas, a conservation biologist from Leeds University who led the research team, said only the "immediate" switch to green technologies and the active removal of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere could avert ecological disaster. "It will be a surprise to a lot of people," he said. "For some years scientists have said climate change may lead to some extinctions but until now there's been no numerical analysis of how big this is likely to be. We had no idea of whether it would lead to the extinction of a few species or a really substantial number. This study suggests the latter and it's extremely worrying.

"If the projections can be extrapolated globally, and to other groups of land animals and plants, our analyses suggest that much more than a million species could be threatened with extinction as a result of climate change."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_medical/story.jsp?story=479080


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: Xlea321]
    #2227617 - 01/08/04 08:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The switch to cleaner technology will not happen until most of species actually die out. People prefer to live in oblivion that this changes are natural.
There are still people that beleive WMD will be found in Iraq and there will be people that will continue to beleive there is no greenhouse effect even when everything will go to hell.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: zeronio]
    #2227688 - 01/08/04 09:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There are still people that beleive WMD will be found in Iraq and there will be people that will continue to beleive there is no greenhouse effect even when everything will go to hell.

Amen  :thumbup:


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Offlined33p
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: Xlea321]
    #2229373 - 01/08/04 09:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So when did they go back in time to get an accurate reading of the all the temps in the Earth's history to be sure we are not just following a familiar pattern.

Quote:

The greenhouse effect is a myth, and there have been extensive and complete, careful measurements which show absolutely NO increase in the average global temperature. The ones usually used in promoting this concept are based on incomplete sampling. Global warming does not exist. In fact there are so many buffers in the atmosphere that it can't happen, even if the CO2 increased hundreds of times over.

First of all, the CO2 content in the atmosphere is only a very tiny amount, about 300 parts per million. This CO2 stays in the air in equilibrium with the CO2 dissolved in the oceans. Since CO2 has a very steep curve of solubility in water, the amount in the air is critically dependent upon the sea surface temperatures (cold rain falling is an excellent CO2 scrubber). World CO2 measurements have traditionally been based on the levels tested in the air at Mona Kea Observatory in Hawaii. The charts of the levels fluctuate seasonally, rising in the summer and falling in the winter. If the levels are compared to the actual sea surface temperature measurements taken at Hilo, which is at the base of Mona Kea, the seasonal variations are seen to track exactly with the temperature. Even the gradual increase over time is duplicated in the temperature reading, as the average temperature at Hilo has been rising in exact lock step with the rise in the Mona Kea CO2 levels. (The charts of these measurement are easily available, making this a trivial exercise if you wish to verify my statements).

Burning fossil fuels is probably one of the most important aids to the life cycle on this oxygen-rich, carbon-poor planet that man can do. Most of the primeval carbon is locked away in the oil and coal deposits formed over the ages by cell death of the phytoplankton (diatoms), which created the oxygen-rich environment by decarboxylating the CO2 in the primitive atmosphere. The limits placed on CO2 are unreasonable and impede the creation of wealth which benefits everyone, and are harmful to the plant life at the same time.




credit goes to bear


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: d33p]
    #2229389 - 01/08/04 09:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But what if it's true?

Won't somebody think of the children?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: Xlea321]
    #2229432 - 01/08/04 09:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

carbon cycle

Alex please read, and consider some geoligists think that the tiny carbonate rocks formed from the upheaval of the Hymalayas may Plunge us into and Ice Age real soon. Enjoy the sauna while it lasts.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: Xlea321]
    #2229445 - 01/08/04 09:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I would have to say that assessment may not be too far off, but I dissagree with the reasons given.

The planet may very well be in a state like that in that time frame, but it will be because of deforestation and genetic decline of isolated populations.

Global warming is just a distraction from legitimate environmental concerns.

Even as far as prevention and supposed causes, release of CO2 from fossil fuels is not as important as what we are doing to the Earth that is inhibiting it's ability to sequester carbon. Mankind has only increased the output of CO2 into the atmosphere by about 10% for the last few decades.


I don't have a problem with trying to limit the amount of carbon we release into the environment, but I think we have bigger problems right now that aren't getting the attention they deserve, and global warming/CO2 emission theory is getting far more than it deserves.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2229500 - 01/08/04 10:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Global warming is just a distraction from legitimate environmental concerns

yep :thumbup:


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2230184 - 01/09/04 03:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

We're destroying our environment in many ways and nobody knows for sure what will happen. From many different theories I prefer not to beleive to those that protect the interests of large corporations. Scientists that claim nothing should be changed because what happens is natural have lots of reasons ($$$) to say so. On the other side I don't see many economical benefits behind global warming theory.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: zeronio]
    #2230221 - 01/09/04 03:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

1.) More money to study a pet theory.

2.) All the bitchin' anti-global warming parties


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: zeronio]
    #2230244 - 01/09/04 04:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Scientists that claim nothing should be changed because what happens is natural have lots of reasons ($$$) to say so. On the other side I don't see many economical benefits behind global warming theory.

Think you've hit the nail on the head there zeronio.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: Xlea321]
    #2230288 - 01/09/04 04:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Don't be so naive as to think there's no money in global warming.


--------------------


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2230290 - 01/09/04 04:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
1.) More money to study a pet theory.

2.) All the bitchin' anti-global warming parties




Against all energy, oil, car, all other heavy industry and all consumers that find happiness in buying and throwing away useless stuff.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2230293 - 01/09/04 04:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sure there's some, but nowhere near the money the oil industry and industry in general have to throw around.

EDIT: You beat me to it zeronio!


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2230296 - 01/09/04 04:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
But what if it's true?

Won't somebody think of the children?




You could use the same joke in discussions on the anti-ballistic missile defense and Iraqui WMD that were developed in enormous quantities to be launched on USA, but you didn't, because you took those threats seriously. Funny, ha? :grin:


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: zeronio]
    #2230297 - 01/09/04 04:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:lol:  :thumbup:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: zeronio]
    #2230364 - 01/09/04 05:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Funny, ha?



We should have ABM's. It's just smart.

As for the WMD's, an honest read of my posts on the matter will show I never insisted or claimed they were there and that I hoped we wouldn't go into Iraq.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2230378 - 01/09/04 05:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

We should have ABM's. It's just smart.




So true... people don't see that North Korea is preparing BM attack on USA.
I'm thinking of all the children - the threat of climate change is nothing compared to the threat of ballistic missiles. Those who oppose ABM are just protecting their own economic interests against military corporations that are working for free to protect american citizens.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Time to go back to Kyoto [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2230500 - 01/09/04 08:58 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

As for the WMD's, an honest read of my posts on the matter will show I never insisted or claimed they were there

Except that you've spent the last year insisting you needed "proof" that WMD arn't there before you'll accept it  :lol:

What is your position now? Are you accepting it was a load of shit or do you still need "proof" the WMD arn't there?


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