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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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Spawn bag questions
#22273036 - 09/22/15 08:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hello, I am using spawn bags for the first time. I usually grown WBS in quart jars. This time I bought pre pasteurized rye from a supplier. I knocked up 24 1 LB spawn bags. 12 with B+ and 12 with GT. I used a still air box, lysol, alcohol, gloves and a lighter. Hope I was as sterile as I think I was. I have a few questions.
1.)The bags came rolled up and I found it really difficult to inflate and separate (to get air up to the filter patch). Is this normal? How inflated is good enough?
2.)The plan is to take the fastest 2 colonizers or each strain and perform a GTG transfer. Has anyone had success with this process to get a good strain without cloning or using agar? The plan is to repeat the process on the 40 GTG jars and identify the fastest colinizers again.
3.)Is performing a GTG transfer between different grains okay? From Rye to WBS?
Thanks in advance!
~CoirLover
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Spawn bag questions [Re: coirlover]
#22273237 - 09/22/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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u won't be able to inflate them w/o opening them, but what u should do is make sure the filter at the top is not touching any grains, and also, not "stuck" to the other side of the bag. there was another poster a few days ago who did pre order grain bags, and they all were bacterial, but if u looked closely, he did not make sure the filter was open to the air inside the bag, it was still basically vac sealed against the opposite side if that makes sense, that restricts or completely stops GE from happening, leading to anaerobic conditions that bacteria thrive in.
u can transfer from any grain to any other grain. but bag>bag transfers are going to be difficult in an SAB. i would not attempt it myself.
u can get good results with MS, but transferring the fastest jars would not be considered cloning, but it is the smart move.
just fYI, u have 2 variables that could lead to failure 1. you did not sterilize or prep the grains urself, nor do u know how long they have been sitting on a shelf before u received them. u should start prepping grains urself, it is not difficult. 2. ur using spores>grains.
if ur bags fail, u won't know if it was you, the sterilization cycle the vendor used, or the quality of the spore syringe, since there is no way to know if its 100% clean or not.
to have the highest success rate, u want to eliminate as many variables as possible in the future
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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I was able to inflate them a little before I injected the spores. I just sprayed the hell out of the SAB with lysol and gently pulled on the sides until an air path was available to the filter patch to ensure GE. Was this a mistake? I usually pasteurize my own WBS in quart jars but i am old now and have kids. Cant find time to pressure cook a bunch of jars without them asking questions. They were small bags (1 #) also so I imagine the pasteurizing is much easier. Hoping for some luck. When I do my GTG I will be pasteurizing my own WBS and switching back to quart jars...
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Spawn bag questions [Re: coirlover]
#22273350 - 09/22/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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as long as u didn't poke holes in the bag, yea that is ok. make sure ur filter stays dry too, don't let it get wet. keep it at room temp on a shelf.
heard on the time constraints. hoping for the best!
make sure u sterilize the grains, pasteurization won't be effective. if u can do ur own grains, i'd just use those bags and go directly to bulk. use the remainder of ur spore syringes to inoculate ur sterilized grain jars, and then expand g2g with those if they are clean, it will be easier to do in an SAB without moving around so much getting the bags to stay open and all.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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One more question. Is it proper to massage grain at 30 or 70%. I have read many conflicting reports on this.
Thanks,
CoirLover
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,064
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Re: Spawn bag questions [Re: coirlover]
#22276014 - 09/22/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
coirlover said: One more question. Is it proper to massage grain at 30 or 70%. I have read many conflicting reports on this.
Thanks,
CoirLover
It is proper to spread colonized grains around in spawn bags and jars (in jars you shake them) and this spreads the mycelium everywhere so it can start growing from every direction and colonize the grains faster. It is normal and standard in home cultivation.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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I understand it is normal practice the question is what is the current industry standard for when a shake/massage should occur?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Spawn bag questions [Re: coirlover]
#22277639 - 09/23/15 07:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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30%. Then again at 100% to make sure it's clean
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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those huge spawn companies shake once, at inoculation/g2g. not because that is best, but because then they don't have to pay more people to shake the 1000's of bags again at 30% 
for bags, i shake at inoc. then, if i need the bag to be done quickly, at around 30-50% so it finishes quicker. if i don't have room for that bag, then i won't shake again until its complete.
there is no hard and fast rule.
be careful with shaking bags depending on how they are sealed. i use impulse sealer, so i fold down the top and clutch it tight, so the weight of the grains while i shake is not pushing against the seal, which IME, is the weakest part of the bag. i've never had a bag bust on the bottom from shaking, only the top.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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Looking for a good SAB agar tel, time to step my game up, plan on taking a clone from first crop
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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Re: Spawn bag questions [Re: coirlover]
#22282170 - 09/24/15 05:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Seems to me like shittons of LI/LC/Slury migth be the best way to inoculate bags. IDK though.
My favorite agar tek is grainwater agar. Just take the boil water from your grains, and mix 25ml with 1/8tsp agar powder per plate. Super easy and works well. I like to use PP5 containers for no pour.
I use these shitty cheap containers from the dollarstore. http://www.dollartree.com/household/food-storage/Sure-Fresh-Small-Round-Storage-Containers-with-Lids-5-ct-Packs/500c512c512p339568/index.pro?method=search
I can fit like 30+ in my PC. The lids can be modified with filters or left half-popped during the run (30 mins.) Occassionally a lid might accidentally seal, causing an implosion, or fall off while lifting it out of the pc and snapping it shut, tanking the plate. IME the losses are small enough not to justify the extra effort. 0 implosions so far, 1 accidental opening.
Pastyplates is a solid tek though, if you want a real tek, not my ghetto method. Use grainwater though, 2ez.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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I got a few more questions... The 12 GT spawn bags were starting to show growth when inspected Saturday 09-26-15. All 24 bags were knocked up late evening 09-17-15 . However the B+ had no signs of myc on any of the 12 bags. Is B+ a really slow colonizer compared to GT?
I know MS have a lot of variables but in general is there a difference in colonization times between the two?
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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Re: Spawn bag questions [Re: coirlover]
#22305222 - 09/28/15 09:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Spore germination times can vary considerably. I wouldn't freak out just yet. The B+ probably just took longer to get rolling. Their colonization speed will most likely be similar, just with different starting times.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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Still nothing on the B+... not happy with THE at the moment, cost me ALOT of time and money.....time to pitch?
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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Re: Spawn bag questions [Re: coirlover]
#22360606 - 10/10/15 08:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alright, thanks for everyone baby stepping me back into this hobby. B+was a bust, no colonization, pitched them all. I have 12 good looking GT bags which were 30% colonized or more and gave them a good massage earlier. Now some more questions...
1. These 1# bags should recover in what 3-7 days?
2.) I'd like to take the 7 fastest and perform a g2g after recovering. I was going to try and take 7 bags and g2g to 70. I am now thinking I would like to do 1bag => 4 quarts sterilized grain => mono. Anyone have a write up on this?
3.) What size bag is appropriate for holding 5 quarts of grain?
4.) Best updated tek for sterilizing large spawn bags without a flow hood.
5.) Is g2g transfer from bags in a SAB very difficult? Any tips?
Any holes in my plan?
Thanks in advance, you guys rock.
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Moldy thumb
Necromancer



Registered: 08/05/15
Posts: 199
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Spawn bag questions [Re: coirlover]
#22361324 - 10/10/15 11:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Read through this and it should have most of the answers you are looking for. As for the g2g in a sab, that sounds like it would be a pain http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4903105/fpart/all/vc/1
Edited by Moldy thumb (10/10/15 11:52 PM)
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BlueIndian
Maestro



Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 858
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Massage thy spawn
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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Quote:
Moldy thumb said: Read through this and it should have most of the answers you are looking for. As for the g2g in a sab, that sounds like it would be a pain http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4903105/fpart/all/vc/1
That thread is 10+years old and not really what I am looking for. I will be performing a G2G from small 1# bags to large 5 quart bags. Thanks for the effort though
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Spawn bag questions [Re: coirlover]
#22361829 - 10/11/15 06:04 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't know what size they are, but they were labeled "medium" and they easily hold 5 quarts of spawn.
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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Re: Spawn bag questions [Re: LocN9ne]
#22362004 - 10/11/15 07:42 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LocN9ne said: I don't know what size they are, but they were labeled "medium" and they easily hold 5 quarts of spawn.
From where? Is that what you use to spawn to bulk?
Edited by coirlover (10/11/15 07:43 AM)
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Spawn bag questions [Re: coirlover]
#22364497 - 10/11/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I ordered them off amazon... I g2g to them from a master quart...then spawn those to bulk.
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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