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musiclover420
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: Achillita]
#22272049 - 09/21/15 10:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the input, I find the natives beliefs around it very fascinating.
Especially considering how commonly abused it is now a days 
I didn't say I knew anything about that pris, I was just pointing out you were arguing the same thing basically 
I am not sure about that metal or whatever but many synthetic fertilizers are very fucked up and I have heard crazy #s for how many chemicals are in commercial tobacco.
It is no wonder it causes cancer, especially with how people abuse it.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
336 said: Maybe I'm wrong. Just seems like whenever they get brought up you find whatever opportunity you can to demean them and shit on them. 
maybe you would be better off actually reading my posts instead of reading into it what you want. I may correct people on their distorted views of indian culture but that doesnt mean I'm bashing indians, it means I'm correcting something that's being spread as bullshit which I do an a myriad of topics. the indians were not some great conservationists that used every part of an animal when they killed it, sure, they used a great bit and a great deal of an animal was used but the same people that caused the extinction of the mammoth in north america, the same that used the hunting technique of running huge herds of bison over cliffs in order to have a more successful hunt to feed a few thousand people, it was wasteful but effective
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musiclover420
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the same people that caused the extinction of the mammoth in north america
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They lived from the Pliocene epoch (from around 5 million years ago) into the Holocene at about 4,500 years ago

So our saying they were the same almost 5,000 years ago then they were say several hundred years ago when Europeans first showed up to learn about them?

Think of how much has happened in just the past 100 years, let alone 1000, or 4,500...
More fucked up shit has happened in the past couple hundred years at the hands of people all over the world.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Achillita
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It honestly matters what natives you're talkng about. They vary wildly in different parts of the US. Using every part(or at least the majority) was very common in many native tribes. I can tell you what each part of the animal was used as.
But natives were only human and did make mistakes, there are tons of misconceptions of natives. In the south east(where my tribe originated) many tribes, including my own, over hunted deer because of the leather trade. My tribe ended up putting laws about overkilling deer. I'm pretty sure it was one of the first laws about over hunting.
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nicechrisman
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Mapacho is a bundle of nicotiana rustica leaves that are wrapped up together for curing. If you google mapacho and do a little digging, I'm sure you could find info on the method of curing it.
Mapacho is very popular in Peru among many different types of shamans including ayahuasqueros and huachumeros (San Pedro cactus shamans). Mostly used for smudging but can be smoked or made into snuff or tincture.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
musiclover420 said:

Thanks for the input, I find the natives beliefs around it very fascinating.
Especially considering how commonly abused it is now a days 
I didn't say I knew anything about that pris, I was just pointing out you were arguing the same thing basically 
you guys use ceremonial and traditional, traditionally it was abused, even by children, ceremonial use was common within a few nations such as the algonquin where they frowned on it's use outside of ceremony of some sort. a ceremony could be something as simple as a trade or a small gathering or a wedding
little distinctions such as the type of ceremony clarifies a lot
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I am not sure about that metal or whatever but many synthetic fertilizers are very fucked up and I have heard crazy #s for how many chemicals are in commercial tobacco.
yet another myth
here's the ingredients of a pack of marlboro http://www.altria.com/our-companies/philipmorrisusa/our-products-and-ingredients/Documents/cigarettes/Marlboro%20Ingredients.pdf
wanna know what a lot of the 'chemikillz' are, they're many of the same that are released/converted when combustion of any plant matter takes place including the marijuana that people hold so dear... that huge list of thousands of additives they teach you to fear are what's found as a compilation of all cigarettes from all over the world, it's not what's found in a single cigarette and the list also includes the breakdown of chemicals naturally present and through combustion
I wonder why they dont break down fruits the same way, there are dozens of chemicals found in a banana, why isnt there a fear of them?

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It is no wonder it causes cancer, especially with how people abuse it.
your post caused cancer in california
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Doctor Sponge
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no youre not speaking out of yer piehole prisoner1 is just hateing cuz hes from gringoria
his ancestors chewed khat and ate yak testicals
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
336 said:
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Prisoner#1 said:
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336 said: Maybe I'm wrong. Just seems like whenever they get brought up you find whatever opportunity you can to demean them and shit on them. 
maybe you would be better off actually reading my posts instead of reading into it what you want. I may correct people on their distorted views of indian culture but that doesnt mean I'm bashing indians, it means I'm correcting something that's being spread as bullshit which I do an a myriad of topics. the indians were not some great conservationists that used every part of an animal when they killed it, sure, they used a great bit and a great deal of an animal was used but the same people that caused the extinction of the mammoth in north america, the same that used the hunting technique of running huge herds of bison over cliffs in order to have a more successful hunt to feed a few thousand people, it was wasteful but effective
Still we've had the natives get brought up in a few topics since I joined and every time you always have something negative to say instead of positive. Even if you're just trying to correct people's misconceptions the way you do it especially when it comes to the natives always seems to involve negativity. IMO
But maybe I'm speaking out of my ass. lol
maybe you need to show me but also understand that sometimes the truth isnt pretty
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Achillita
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Naw you're right. I'm usually too late to the argument to say anything though.
Natives has so many misconceptions towards them though. But pris, tobacco wasn't abused in any way that it is today. But it depends completely on the tribe. Some tribes advocated daily smoking, others very seldom.
My tribe and nearly every tribe in the south east would smoke tobacco seldomly(although through late colonial times it became more common for daily use). Tribal Council meetings, meetings with other tribes to establish peace, meetings with other tribes to establish war alliances, when soliciting supernatural aid, and also on informal occasions, such as meeting a friend on the trail.
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musiclover420
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: Mapacho is a bundle of nicotiana rustica leaves that are wrapped up together for curing. If you google mapacho and do a little digging, I'm sure you could find info on the method of curing it.
Mapacho is very popular in Peru among many different types of shamans including ayahuasqueros and huachumeros (San Pedro cactus shamans). Mostly used for smudging but can be smoked or made into snuff or tincture.
Thanks, will try to remember to look into that.
I was reading up on the ferment cure method where you wrap or stack the leaves so it takes them longer. Not sure how much more I will harvest this year.
If I get much more I will definitely give that a try to make some smudge sticks 
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it's not what's found in a single cigarette and the list also includes the breakdown of chemicals naturally present and through combustion
I don't think anyone ever said otherwise...
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I wonder why they dont break down fruits the same way, there are dozens of chemicals found in a banana, why isnt there a fear of them?
Because I eat organic bananas This is getting old real fast man. Just stop.
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your post caused cancer in california

You literally have just been arguing against others opinions this whole time, please go argue elsewhere if that is what you seek
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: Achillita] 1
#22272184 - 09/21/15 11:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Achillita said: But pris, tobacco wasn't abused in any way that it is today. But it depends completely on the tribe. Some tribes advocated daily smoking, others very seldom.
there wasnt 7 billion people and distribution networks that could deliver tobacco to even the most remote villages of central mongolia on a daily basis 500 years ago either
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My tribe and nearly every tribe in the south east would smoke tobacco seldomly(although through late colonial times it became more common for daily use). Tribal Council meetings, meetings with other tribes to establish peace, meetings with other tribes to establish war alliances, when soliciting supernatural aid, and also on informal occasions, such as meeting a friend on the trail.
and also when making deals and also when discussing news and politics among themselves and even when just relaxing and talking bullshit, the Cherokee and Creek traded more for tobacco than they grew but many were also growers of tobacco, if you go to the Qualla Boundary you'll find at least a hundred homes growing tobacco today
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
336 said: I just get the vibe that your more out their to be "on the white man's team" then to educate and correct people. Which would be more-or-less understandable given the past few hundred years some of the whites have used to demean native culture and to convince everyone they were savage, primitive, and stupid.
The whole movement to try and deify natives is obviously an overboard attempt to counter all the hate and negativity that has been spread about native culture.
IMO of course.
that's your own perceptions, maybe you have some bias that wants you to read what I say as negative, maybe it's your own negativity showing thorough, I know that we dont hold many of the same opinions which would certainly affect how you view my posts but i speak frankly, I dont like to mince words and sugar coat things
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Achillita
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The daily smoking of tobacco became much more common after European influence. And because europeans began getting natives to grow N Tabacum(comercial tobacco) compared to the traditionally used N Rustica. Tobacco growing became very popular since they could grow and get traded beads, weapons, metal, ect.
Trade networks were pretty extensive through out ancient america. Although I get your point
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ThatKidWithTheFace
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
wanna know what a lot of the 'chemikillz' are, they're many of the same that are released/converted when combustion of any plant matter takes place including the marijuana that people hold so dear... that huge list of thousands of additives they teach you to fear are what's found as a compilation of all cigarettes from all over the world, it's not what's found in a single cigarette and the list also includes the breakdown of chemicals naturally present and through combustion
I wonder why they dont break down fruits the same way, there are dozens of chemicals found in a banana, why isnt there a fear of them?
I'm glad somebody finally saidit! I'm so tired of hearing "Dude, Tobacco's not bad for you, it's the chemicals they put in it" or "Marijuana contains x number of chemicals!"
Everything is full of chemicals. That's how the world works.
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[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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