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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: Achillita]
    #22272049 - 09/21/15 10:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:

Thanks for the input, I find the natives beliefs around it very fascinating.

Especially considering how commonly abused it is now a days :sad:

I didn't say I knew anything about that pris, I was just pointing out you were arguing the same thing basically :lol:

I am not sure about that metal or whatever but many synthetic fertilizers are very fucked up and I have heard crazy #s for how many chemicals are in commercial tobacco.

It is no wonder it causes cancer, especially with how people abuse it.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: musiclover420]
    #22272052 - 09/21/15 10:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

336 said:
Maybe I'm wrong. Just seems like whenever they get brought up you find whatever opportunity you can to demean them and shit on them. :shrug:





maybe you would be better off actually reading my posts instead of reading into it
what you want. I may correct people on their distorted views of indian culture but
that doesnt mean I'm bashing indians, it means I'm correcting something that's
being spread as bullshit which I do an a myriad of topics. the indians were not
some great conservationists that used every part of an animal when they killed it,
sure, they used a great bit and a great deal of an animal was used but the same
people that caused the extinction of the mammoth in north america, the same that
used the hunting technique of running huge herds of bison over cliffs in order to
have a more successful hunt to feed a few thousand people, it was wasteful but
effective


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22272075 - 09/21/15 11:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

the same
people that caused the extinction of the mammoth in north america




Quote:

They lived from the Pliocene epoch (from around 5 million years ago) into the Holocene at about 4,500 years ago




:thefuckisthis:

So our saying they were the same almost 5,000 years ago then they were say several hundred years ago when Europeans first showed up to learn about them?

:lol: :rolleyes:

Think of how much has happened in just the past 100 years, let alone 1000, or 4,500...

More fucked up shit has happened in the past couple hundred years at the hands of people all over the world.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22272087 - 09/21/15 11:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It honestly matters what natives you're talkng about. They vary wildly in different parts of the US. Using every part(or at least the majority) was very common in many native tribes. I can tell you what each part of the animal was used as.

But natives were only human and did make mistakes, there are tons of misconceptions of natives. In the south east(where my tribe originated) many tribes, including my own, over hunted deer because of the leather trade. My tribe ended up putting laws about overkilling deer. I'm pretty sure it was one of the first laws about over hunting.


--------------------


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: musiclover420]
    #22272111 - 09/21/15 11:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Mapacho is a bundle of nicotiana rustica leaves that are wrapped up together for curing. If you google mapacho and do a little digging, I'm sure you could find info on the method of curing it.

Mapacho is very popular in Peru among many different types of shamans including ayahuasqueros and huachumeros (San Pedro cactus shamans). Mostly used for smudging but can be smoked or made into snuff or tincture.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: musiclover420]
    #22272122 - 09/21/15 11:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
:thumbup:

Thanks for the input, I find the natives beliefs around it very fascinating.

Especially considering how commonly abused it is now a days :sad:

I didn't say I knew anything about that pris, I was just pointing out you were arguing the same thing basically :lol:




you guys use ceremonial and traditional, traditionally it was abused, even by
children, ceremonial use was common within a few nations such as the algonquin
where they frowned on it's use outside of ceremony of some sort. a ceremony
could be something as simple as a trade or a small gathering or a wedding

little distinctions such as the type of ceremony clarifies a lot


Quote:

I am not sure about that metal or whatever but many synthetic fertilizers are very fucked up and I have heard crazy #s for how many chemicals are in commercial tobacco.




yet another myth

here's the ingredients of a pack of marlboro
http://www.altria.com/our-companies/philipmorrisusa/our-products-and-ingredients/Documents/cigarettes/Marlboro%20Ingredients.pdf

wanna know what a lot of the 'chemikillz' are, they're many of the same that are
released/converted when combustion of any plant matter takes place including the
marijuana that people hold so dear... that huge list of thousands of additives
they teach you to fear are what's found as a compilation of all cigarettes from
all over the world, it's not what's found in a single cigarette and the list also
includes the breakdown of chemicals naturally present and through combustion

I wonder why they dont break down fruits the same way, there are dozens of
chemicals found in a banana, why isnt there a fear of them?




Quote:

It is no wonder it causes cancer, especially with how people abuse it.




your post caused cancer in california


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InvisibleDoctor Sponge
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: musiclover420]
    #22272125 - 09/21/15 11:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

no youre not speaking out of yer piehole prisoner1 is just hateing cuz hes from gringoria

his ancestors chewed khat and ate yak testicals


--------------------


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: musiclover420]
    #22272135 - 09/21/15 11:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

336 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

336 said:
Maybe I'm wrong. Just seems like whenever they get brought up you find whatever opportunity you can to demean them and shit on them. :shrug:





maybe you would be better off actually reading my posts instead of reading into it
what you want. I may correct people on their distorted views of indian culture but
that doesnt mean I'm bashing indians, it means I'm correcting something that's
being spread as bullshit which I do an a myriad of topics. the indians were not
some great conservationists that used every part of an animal when they killed it,
sure, they used a great bit and a great deal of an animal was used but the same
people that caused the extinction of the mammoth in north america, the same that
used the hunting technique of running huge herds of bison over cliffs in order to
have a more successful hunt to feed a few thousand people, it was wasteful but
effective



Still we've had the natives get brought up in a few topics since I joined and every time you always have something negative to say instead of positive. Even if you're just trying to correct people's misconceptions the way you do it especially when it comes to the natives always seems to involve negativity. IMO

But maybe I'm speaking out of my ass. :shrug: lol





maybe you need to show me but also understand that sometimes the truth isnt pretty


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OfflineAchillita
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Registered: 05/26/14
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: musiclover420]
    #22272140 - 09/21/15 11:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Naw you're right. I'm usually too late to the argument to say anything though.

Natives has so many misconceptions towards them though. But pris, tobacco wasn't abused in any way that it is today. But it depends completely on the tribe. Some tribes advocated daily smoking, others very seldom.

My tribe and nearly every tribe in the south east would smoke tobacco seldomly(although through late colonial times it became more common for daily use). Tribal Council meetings, meetings with other tribes to establish peace, meetings with other tribes to establish war alliances, when soliciting supernatural aid, and also on informal occasions, such as meeting a friend on the trail.


--------------------


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22272142 - 09/21/15 11:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Mapacho is a bundle of nicotiana rustica leaves that are wrapped up together for curing. If you google mapacho and do a little digging, I'm sure you could find info on the method of curing it.

Mapacho is very popular in Peru among many different types of shamans including ayahuasqueros and huachumeros (San Pedro cactus shamans). Mostly used for smudging but can be smoked or made into snuff or tincture.




Thanks, will try to remember to look into that.

I was reading up on the ferment cure method where you wrap or stack the leaves so it takes them longer. Not sure how much more I will harvest this year.

If I get much more I will definitely give that a try to make some smudge sticks :thumbup:


Quote:

it's not what's found in a single cigarette and the list also
includes the breakdown of chemicals naturally present and through combustion




I don't think anyone ever said otherwise...

Quote:

I wonder why they dont break down fruits the same way, there are dozens of
chemicals found in a banana, why isnt there a fear of them?





Because I eat organic bananas :tongue2: This is getting old real fast man. Just stop.

Quote:

your post caused cancer in california




:kelsoburn:

You literally have just been arguing against others opinions this whole time, please go argue elsewhere if that is what you seek :leaving:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: Achillita] * 1
    #22272184 - 09/21/15 11:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
But pris, tobacco wasn't abused in any way that it is today. But it depends completely on the tribe. Some tribes advocated daily smoking, others very seldom.





there wasnt 7 billion people and distribution networks that could deliver tobacco
to even the most remote villages of central mongolia on a daily basis 500 years
ago either




Quote:

My tribe and nearly every tribe in the south east would smoke tobacco seldomly(although through late colonial times it became more common for daily use). Tribal Council meetings, meetings with other tribes to establish peace, meetings with other tribes to establish war alliances, when soliciting supernatural aid, and also on informal occasions, such as meeting a friend on the trail.




and also when making deals and also when discussing news and politics among
themselves and even when just relaxing and talking bullshit, the Cherokee and
Creek traded more for tobacco than they grew but many were also growers of
tobacco, if you go to the Qualla Boundary you'll find at least a hundred homes
growing tobacco today


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #22272194 - 09/21/15 11:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

336 said:
I just get the vibe that your more out their to be "on the white man's team" then to educate and correct people. Which would be more-or-less understandable given the past few hundred years some of the whites have used to demean native culture and to convince everyone they were savage, primitive, and stupid.

The whole movement to try and deify natives is obviously an overboard attempt to counter all the hate and negativity that has been spread about native culture.

IMO of course.




that's your own perceptions, maybe you have some bias that wants you to read what I
say as negative, maybe it's your own negativity showing thorough, I know that we
dont hold many of the same opinions which would certainly affect how you view my
posts but i speak frankly, I dont like to mince words and sugar coat things


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22272199 - 09/21/15 11:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The daily smoking of tobacco became much more common after European influence. And because europeans began getting natives to grow N Tabacum(comercial tobacco) compared to the traditionally used N Rustica. Tobacco growing became very popular since they could grow and get traded beads, weapons, metal, ect.

Trade networks were pretty extensive through out ancient america. Although I get your point :lol:


--------------------


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Smudging tobacco [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22276464 - 09/22/15 09:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:


wanna know what a lot of the 'chemikillz' are, they're many of the same that are
released/converted when combustion of any plant matter takes place including the
marijuana that people hold so dear... that huge list of thousands of additives
they teach you to fear are what's found as a compilation of all cigarettes from
all over the world, it's not what's found in a single cigarette and the list also
includes the breakdown of chemicals naturally present and through combustion

I wonder why they dont break down fruits the same way, there are dozens of
chemicals found in a banana, why isnt there a fear of them?






I'm glad somebody finally saidit! I'm so tired of hearing "Dude, Tobacco's not bad for you, it's the chemicals they put in it" or "Marijuana contains x number of chemicals!"

Everything is full of chemicals. That's how the world works.


--------------------
Check Out My Beats
SoundCloud

[quote]Sheekle said:
[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote]
u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]


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