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saenchai
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Forced Reincarnation 1
#22268078 - 09/21/15 04:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Please forgive my brashness, but this seems important. When you think about the worldview of most people who have an Eastern or new age bent, you would probably find that they accept the idea of reincarnation until eventual enlightenment and the various challenges in this reality to be a generally benevolent, unavoidable process and in their best interest, if not challenging at times.
While this is generally the case on an absolute level, it can be helpful to consider that reincarnation into this particular reality used to not be an automatic process but was a choice, and that some people end up reincarnating here for a long time when if they really had the chance to make a conscious choice they might want to leave.
This post refers to an alternate means of leaving the reincarnation cycle outside of achieving buddhahood, the main idea being that the original purpose of this simulation has been hijacked in some ways by "private interests". Of course, on the most absolute level nothing can be fundamentally wrong since it is basically a stage play but there can't be any harm in being more aware of choices available to us. That being said, I will post a link that explains this idea better and welcome any discussion on the topic.
http://in5d.com/how-to-exit-the-reincarnation-system/
This post is pretty much for people that already subscribe to the idea of reincarnation on any level. If you don't, please enjoy your personal worldview but it would seem kind of pointless to criticize these ideas since the point of this thread is not defending or arguing for positions. I am curious to hear others' opinions. If youre interested in further exploring the topic, Wes Penre's website goes into the most detail I've seen anywhere about metaphysical science and the nature of the multiverses.
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TheKingofLimbs
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai]
#22268339 - 09/21/15 07:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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My girlfriend is a medium and we speak with my dead brother when he comes around. I asked him about reincarnation and this is what he said:
1. you can choose to reincarnate if you want 2. you reincarnate if you are not truly sorry for the things you did on earth that either deprived people of their life or free will. 3. reincarnation can be in the form of plants or animals if reincarnating into them teaches you a lesson that you would not find as a human. 4. reincarnation is like flunking 5. most people just cross over and stay in heaven
-------------------- The Newb Forum
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saenchai
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That makes sense. Do you agree or disagree that people can end up being needlessly recycled into this system because of belief systems they learn during a lifetime or a lack of awareness of the larger universe there is to explore upon death?
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MarkostheGnostic
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No offense to your girlfriend, but the ancient established religious traditions differ on transmigration of the soul. In Buddhism, there is NO soul, and rebirth is NOT reincarnation. Completely different mechanisms in these faiths, and neither is a choice. In both of those traditions, reincarnation/rebirth is a result of karma and one may take a break in Hindu thought and spend some positive karmic merit in one of the heaven planes, but reincarnation will occur. In Judaism, there IS a soul, and transmigration into another human life is punishment (gilgul, cycle) for not being "fruitful" and having children. In Hinduism, there is the metaphysical possibility in the Bhagavad Gita of regressing into an animal body, but typically in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, one takes birth in the Hell Realm, not in the Animal Realm, or into a plant (no represented realms of the vegetable life forms). Some Gnostic Christians entertained Greek notions of transmigration (deriving from Pythagorus and his school, probably influenced by Indian thought). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgul
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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TheKingofLimbs
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I like your thoughts using combined religious texts and knowledge. Very interesting.
My brother says that all religions have a truth, but none of them are 100% correct. After you cross over, from what he says, you get a choice as to what you want to do if you are allowed to stay in heaven and are not forced to reincarnate.
-------------------- The Newb Forum
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TheKingofLimbs
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai]
#22281434 - 09/23/15 09:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
That makes sense. Do you agree or disagree that people can end up being needlessly recycled into this system because of belief systems they learn during a lifetime or a lack of awareness of the larger universe there is to explore upon death?
I think reincarnation has more to do with what you do while you are on Earth, rather than as a belief system.
-------------------- The Newb Forum
Edited by TheKingofLimbs (09/23/15 10:00 PM)
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saenchai
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I guess that's the point I'm trying to bring up. Most spirit guides in the fourth dimension around the earth grid are false light beings who try (rather successfully i might add) to sell us the illusion that our karma binds us to certain experiences. Karma is an illusory contract because on the other side everything is even and is looked back upon as an interesting game played in earnest with fellow souls whether you pretended to be a good guy or a bad guy. Regardless of who we were, what we experienced, and what we did to people.
The light of god is all inclusive at the soul level. All is instantly forgiven because hey, at the end of the day we are one experiencing itself subjectively and we created that experience for ourself to learn. You really think "God" can or would even want to put people in time out like that? People who originally had valid lessons to learn here or came out of fascination can get amnesia after every lifetime and can't remember that they have the choice to leave and go back to heaven.
Those spirit guides have their own agenda that isnt necessarily in our best interest. Most lightworkers have a skewed sense of how deceptive this reality can be and become agents of the false light beings unwittingly. Ie lots of new age and religious leaders these days.
We are all pieces of God the creator and all we have to do to break a cycle of reincarnation is have the awareness to refuse to consent to another incarnation, refuse the tunnel of light, and then leave the earth grid as a soul. Whether we were a king, beggar, thief, priest, whatever. What sort of pathetic demiurge would order our souls to be confined to one difficult reality until we grow up when there are trillions of games to play?
Free will is built into the fabric of creation. Anybody who says otherwise is either evil or mislead. Fuck Jesus, fuck the Buddha, fuck Shiva, fuck yahweh, fuck the "angels", fuck the " ascended masters". They can all eat a fat one. If even one person reads this and remembers a little that they have more free will than a fucking simulation reality, I will be glad. It irks me so much to see reflections of me stuck in this place. I'm going to stop posting on this website now, I don't think it is serving me to share my thoughts here any longer. Thanks for listening.
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Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai]
#22283980 - 09/24/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Maybe a choice is what's imposed. For example, if you think about an intelligible choice, or if this thought process arises, you will choose to live in all likelihood.
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Jokeshopbeard
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai] 1
#22285355 - 09/24/15 06:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
saenchai said:I'm going to stop posting on this website now, I don't think it is serving me to share my thoughts here any longer. Thanks for listening.
Why?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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soldatheero
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I don't really see why you should take your brother as an authority on the inner workings of the universe and the evolution of the soul simply because he is dis-embodied. Most of the channeled material I have come across in contradictory and IMO untrustworthy. I think the eastern spiritual traditions and metaphysics agree upon the fact that a human body and brain is required in order to attain enlightenment and therefore you would be better of looking for spiritual authorities which were real living and breathing people. Also that is the reason why the heaven state is only temporal because it will not lead to the souls liberation and your souls karmic ties or Sanskrit impressions will cause you to be reborn again. Meher Baba is my spiritual authority and he gives incredibly detailed and logically satisfying explanations for these things.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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TheKingofLimbs
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contradictory and untrustworthy information can not come from those that have crossed over. It is intrinsically against their nature to lie.
-------------------- The Newb Forum
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saenchai
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Bump.
For whoever is interested, I have an addition to make to my original post. I have had a few personal experiences now which confirm to me the validity of what I said in the previous posts. I have also consulted what some people might call a shaman or spirit guide and he confirmed to me what was said above but he added something important.
It is not enough to simply be aware of the fact that you can leave. The false light beings are skilled at hypnotizing and tricking souls into the tunnel regardless of their intention while dying and separating from the body. He said the real prerequisites to leaving the earth grid and experiencing true freedom are to either develop ones own ability to astral project in this lifetime and become proficient in the astral plane to the point that you cannot be swayed or tricked out of disorientation, or to fully master ones spiritual connection.
I would imagine doing both is ideal but he said one or the other is fine. If you connect well enough to source, you will be steeped in truth enough at death not to be swayed. The whole point is that it used to be a lot easier but in modern times people get programmed up from every direction to not care about their spiritual connection or to put their energy into some false connection with some idea or principle that isn't real. The tricky part is that they often leave a little truth in to make it seem real but it isn't. Not to mention the psychic attacks and hypnotic tricks upon death on top of all of that. It has basically become an elaborate prison system.
I have also found a very short video which explains this so well so I'll add that too if anybody is interested. If you want to hear what my personal experiences were that confirmed this to me, I will share those too. This is the most important information I've come across in my life and I feel obliged to share it with people who are looking for similar information.
I am not afraid as I realize that this reality just happens to be one of the more challenging ones and that ultimately, we are here to understand just how powerful we really are despite very stacked odds. Ultimately, harm cannot really come to a soul and every soul makes it back to the light eventually. Still, I'd rather pick up experience packets somewhere with less of a negative polarity which doesn't try to mess with my free will so much. If you want to actually ascend this lifetime, not fake ascension as per new (c)age programming which is just one of many hypnosises handed down by the intelligent controllers, better get serious because every angle can and will be used against you to keep you trapped and distracted.
Hah. I guess nobody is interested in hearing the truth lol. If or when you ever go out of body, please visit the bardo area and verify these things for yourself. Don't take my word for it or some other person's word for it. Anything else is just blind hearsay no matter how sacred or holy a belief system is said to be or how loving it feels. Taking things on faith can be a dangerous thing. The whole point of this section of the universe is letting light and dark run free without restraint as an experiment to see which prevails and provide learning experiences at the micro and macro level. The dark exists too and must be acknowledged the same way the creator acknowledges it as part of itself. To do otherwise is delusional and unbalanced. Have fun
Edited by saenchai (10/09/15 09:29 PM)
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: No offense to your girlfriend, but the ancient established religious traditions differ on transmigration of the soul. In Buddhism, there is NO soul, and rebirth is NOT reincarnation. Completely different mechanisms in these faiths, and neither is a choice. In both of those traditions, reincarnation/rebirth is a result of karma and one may take a break in Hindu thought and spend some positive karmic merit in one of the heaven planes, but reincarnation will occur. In Judaism, there IS a soul, and transmigration into another human life is punishment (gilgul, cycle) for not being "fruitful" and having children. In Hinduism, there is the metaphysical possibility in the Bhagavad Gita of regressing into an animal body, but typically in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, one takes birth in the Hell Realm, not in the Animal Realm, or into a plant (no represented realms of the vegetable life forms). Some Gnostic Christians entertained Greek notions of transmigration (deriving from Pythagorus and his school, probably influenced by Indian thought). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgul
WTFFF
I did not know this. I understood hinduism and buddhism to have near identical ideas of rebirth. Clearly I did not read closely enough. Can you please expand specifically on the differences between the hindu, buddhist, and jain ideas of rebirths?
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: topdog82]
#22361202 - 10/10/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said: WTFFF
I did not know this. I understood hinduism and buddhism to have near identical ideas of rebirth. Clearly I did not read closely enough. Can you please expand specifically on the differences between the hindu, buddhist, and jain ideas of rebirths?
I'm sure Mark will provide a much more detailed and deeper answer, but as far as Buddhism is concerned, they disbelieve in a soul or really any type of unchanging self. This was a principal insight of the Buddha -- total impermanence of everything. Essentially, Nirvana is a kind of pure nothingness, certainly not bliss -- dissolved into pure consciousness. Reincarnation and rebirth is considered to be a wholly involuntary process. The only time voluntarism enters in is when a Bodhisattva deliberately chooses to reincarnate out of compassion. In a way, to me, there is almost a nihilistic flair to the nothingness espoused by Buddhism. It is not typically represented that way in the West, but just think: Buddhism denies everything about you, it denies any lasting essence to everything you are, and if you're pure, you'll dissolve into nothingness. "Nirvana," after all, means extinction. The other reason I feel it has that flair is that life is considered essentially abysmal. I dunno, just some personal reactions. Here is a pretty good rundown of the Buddhist beliefs: http://www.near-death.com/religion/buddhism/afterlife-beliefs.html
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
topdog82 said: WTFFF
I did not know this. I understood hinduism and buddhism to have near identical ideas of rebirth. Clearly I did not read closely enough. Can you please expand specifically on the differences between the hindu, buddhist, and jain ideas of rebirths?
I'm sure Mark will provide a much more detailed and deeper answer, but as far as Buddhism is concerned, they disbelieve in a soul or really any type of unchanging self. This was a principal insight of the Buddha -- total impermanence of everything. Essentially, Nirvana is a kind of pure nothingness, certainly not bliss -- dissolved into pure consciousness. Reincarnation and rebirth is considered to be a wholly involuntary process. The only time voluntarism enters in is when a Bodhisattva deliberately chooses to reincarnate out of compassion. In a way, to me, there is almost a nihilistic flair to the nothingness espoused by Buddhism. It is not typically represented that way in the West, but just think: Buddhism denies everything about you, it denies any lasting essence to everything you are, and if you're pure, you'll dissolve into nothingness. "Nirvana," after all, means extinction. The other reason I feel it has that flair is that life is considered essentially abysmal. I dunno, just some personal reactions. Here is a pretty good rundown of the Buddhist beliefs: http://www.near-death.com/religion/buddhism/afterlife-beliefs.html
Thanks! I think I read over some stuff on the internet and I got the general idea. IMO that seems lilke a strange idea but I guess if it works, it works
Mark; if you see this, please fill in on the part about jainism? i know very little about jainism and know even less about rebirth within jainism
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saenchai
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: topdog82]
#22362554 - 10/11/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Jeez man. Why don't you just go to the wikipedia page? Its not that complicated. I find it very strange that I claimed to have first hand experience of how to exit the reincarnation cycle and nobody is considering the implications of that. You're getting away from the original point of this thread.
DQ I have to agree with you. I think the nihilistic vibe comes from the fact that the Buddha was well aware that this place is basically a prison for souls. He is very straightforward in saying life (on this planet) is suffering and can be escaped. Frankly I think Buddhism is a benevolent attempt to shepard souls out of this reality from an advanced soul but it tells half truths and is ineffective in some ways. I don't know the "going-rate" of souls that leave earth per Buddhist teachings but I'd rather trust myself. I know some kinds of Buddhism say go to the light and that's voluntary imprisonment. The freedom of your soul is a pretty big deal to entrust to the teachings of some dead guy. If you want to have a chat about different kinds of Buddhism, please start your own thread topdog.
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai]
#22362584 - 10/11/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah saenchai, I followed your link and what I found was indeed very interesting. One must take that with a grain of salt -- I mean, who am I to trust the writer of that article -- but I liked it and will keep it in the back of my mind for sure. If there's one thing I'm pretty sure of, it's that higher realms are a lot like this world in several respects -- there's politics and power struggles, fighting, alliances, corruption, dishonesty, jealousy, duplicity, pettiness and any number of other things that make people wince about this planet. So I do not dismiss what you have posted, and I appreciate the information.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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saenchai
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Thanks. Obviously I couldnt reasonably expect a person to outright believe what I'm saying and I don't expect anyone to. I guess as a seeker of truth I strongly believe that a person shouldn't settle for second hand accounts because these days I am finding more and more that teachings I used to hold in high regard conflict with my direct experience of the higher realities. It's one thing to read the manual and another to drive the car to a specific destination. How does one know the unfailingly correct route unless one has already made the journey oneself? Seems like a pretty important thing to consider. I've read some bad directions before in life and got lost. I'd rather lock that one in then take it on faith. I'm not too keen on the whole idea of reincarnating for aeons.
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai]
#22362746 - 10/11/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your post (and this thread) reminds me of the admonition of the Nazi archaeologist to Indiana Jones in Last Crusade:
Don't trust anybody.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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saenchai
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Haha yeah man. Not even me.
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once in a lifetime
sun child



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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: topdog82]
#22362839 - 10/11/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would ask a Buddhist, about Buddhism, if I did not know about Buddhism and were interested to learn about it.
Thay has been quite wonderful for me, the leader of his community -
it is NOT nihilism, nor does it ' deny everything about you. '
Once again - ask a Buddhist master ( they are actually quite welcoming )
I also - with due respect to those who have done their best - would not recommend those who say that hard drugs are better for you than soft drugs - etc. ---- and other things.
I have to come to understand that this view is responsible for incredibly vast amounts of ----- time wasting. I will say time-wasting instead of suffering, but that term works if you want.
What words could I possibly use to express this - I don't know really. . . Take a bit of each and which is good or not good for you ------------- a good question to ask. .
I also find it almost beyond disingenuous for someone to come to Shroomery and tell people not to take Shrooms or things like that - but that's okay,
and it's just me,
and all resolves into light and peace in the end ---- am not seeking to argue, just to present what I have observed.
Once again - go to the source - if you wish to learn about Buddhism or any other - don't take interpretations with anything more than a grain of salt ---- and probably not even that.
As Thay mentions - your first love is not your first love, it is not your last. It is just love - it is one with everything.
Exact words pretty much.
So --- clearly that's not anything like some of the mistaken views --------- but then,
naturally, you will find illness in a hospital - so I also recommend, find it all out yourself,
out in nature - in total peace and beauty - follow your heart. . . this is another part of Buddhism. . .
Self- faith is basically key - Seng Ts'an ---
when trust and the mind are not two - not two, trust and mind - then all words break off, no past, no future, no now.
As well as talks plenty about how there is 'no coming, no going' - but these are kind of concepts ---- which, you have to experience --- nor are they much different from other religions' views. . . Look at inter-faith people, and other stuff. . . Rumi, and others, compare very nicely to the saint-poets and gurus of most Buddhism.
As Thay again, says, ' Reality is beyond every concept - even the concept of inter-dependence. '
What do they see?
What do you see?

maybe they see a lot of bleakness or nihilism - I sure the hell don't.
This is why - 'Don't follow others' holds so true -- Your heart, your inner light - that is always, and forever the best guide.
Follow your heart always.
You don't need any teacher, except what you know in your heart to be true - and yes, all beings know in their heart what is good and true.
'Though a house may be boarded up for a thousand years, when the doors are opened, and the light is let in - light floods the whole room immediately.' (paraphrased, from Maitripa, a character from Tibetan Buddhism, a little bit shrouded in lore and mystery.
Ah----- I just remembered, one other thing I was about to share earlier - ... Am not trying to preach for Buddhism - or anything like that -
One other beautiful thing Thay shared, was - he wants people simply to reconnect with their own traditions and roots ( I looked for exact quote but was lazy ;-) )
So in other words - not trying to convert. . . Thay also shares a simple path - peace and happiness. Happiness for ourself and others - and peace - is the basis of peace work. . . 'When you are happy and peaceful, when you smile with joy, not only your family and friends, but the whole world profits.' (not quite exact)
and 'Happiness is not the destination - happiness is the way'
as well as 'Good will is not enough, we must learn the art of making people happy.'
Just some little giblets. . . Having a perfect memory from birth helps - also I knew that all humans have such - if they only learn how. 
Peace and Love 
Dalai Lama is also one who is not interested in converting people - I believe I heard him say.
About reincarnation ( next post if I post here again will be more on topic ). . . lovely. . . one of the loveliest things I heard about it was by someone I respect -- on here -- along the lines of
' Every person and every being on the planet is one of your incarnations. . . '
quite beautiful. . . and he wrote some other words on it which were rather similar.
Anyway, just sharing some love.
Peace. 
Love to you Saenchi and Topdog - and all of Shroomery.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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saenchai
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If I have characterized him correctly, the buddha's love was tempered by wisdom and clearness and he was not an unabashedly compassionate person. I will never discount the grace and happiness that Buddhism can lend a person. I do love every reflection of me and I also love my individuated soul unit. I love it enough to not want it stuck reincarnating on a planet of negative polarity. Learning ones lessons and leaving is the most important. The Buddha didn't say anything about me needing to stick around and be a good person for all of eternity so to me, it seems understanding exactly how and why we get to leave and why we came here gets to the core of the issue.
I'm not sure what the main idea of your post is but I have just as much of a right to offer my perspective as you do yours. Why did you blanket this thread over with a diatribe on various tenets and qualities of buddhism? Do you deny that Buddhism itself was created in order to help people escape this world as efficiently as possible? What are we really talking about here? I apologize if I'm being too straight forward but discussions such as these get places a lot faster when we talk about what we mean to talk about.
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once in a lifetime
sun child



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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai]
#22363193 - 10/11/15 12:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not a problem at all, dear Saenchi. I agree with you - there is no reason to stay in this universe indefinitely - all pressures can melt away, and it's not difficult for this to happen.
My apologies as well - for rambling. My main thing is to share happiness with people. . to help all come to their own Ideal - if they wish - if they do not; I give them my best and go elsewhere -- it isn't my business what their Ideal is - I do wish for each to achieve their own, however. This is something I got ( partially ) from Vivekananda.
Part of my issue is the fact that people have come on here - with seemingly the ulterior motive of spreading materialism -
and they talk about spirit and what not --- the thing is - you can tell a person's heart by the effect they have on others...
Some people wish to de-stabalize others - because of a learned behavior, only - and this shows where their heart is, etc.
Further - I am simply, as I said, wishing to share a little love. Those who talk about darkness and pain only do so because they have not experienced the other side of life. . .
And they who try to say hard drugs are better than soft drugs --- the harm they have done is great. . .
So that's my goal here --- Just being here, sharing my light and life with others.
I actually have a pretty much - totally in agreement with you; there is no need for this world, for its suffering - etc.
I have known this since birth almost, and known the light of it --- known since almost birth that all is light, and the meaning of this - etc.
One of the main things is that there is infinite light - and peace - and there is no cause for sadness.
' Sorrow was never of any use to anyone ' as Will Blake put it.
Fear of death is an aberration and it is not normal -- sadness and fear of any kind are artificial and learned -- they are not natural. . . not really.
If there is infinite light - if death and life are one - then there is no cause for sadness, no matter what may come.
There is no reason for this world to not be a paradise - and, so this is what I'm here for. . .
Not - in terms of words, or doctrine - as many have said - it is Life which matters - not the words.
And there is Infinite Life - within all of us - So - am here to share with peace and happiness that none of that darkness is necessary.
Forgive me for going off- topic. I have certainly never seen you talk about hard drugs as better for us --------------- yet this is the legal status of our day- and, as I've come to realize, probably the most important issue --
I know that's not the main topic of your thread - so that's why, again I wished to say, abot your points I am in total agreement with you --
and also do value your your insight very much and enjoy learning from other beings on the upward spiral.
I hope you understand this and that I wish you happiness and consider you as Gold as Light - as a living being, this is what I consider you to be.
Just keep shining light for as long as you are alive - that's all we have to do, I'd say. ..
Following one's heart leads to success -- this is a strong truth.
Those who are free - always - eternally - continually, tell others, 'You are free,' -
' Open your eyes, you are eternally and infinitely free. Illusion is nothing. '
Peace and light,

Jake
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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. . .
as to explain my confusing parts of it -
. . .
two of my ancestors died from alcohol and I am just sharing a little light and love for their sake - - -
And those who say alcohol - a hard drug - is better than Sacred plants, Holy herbs - Sacrament and the most holy plants on the planet. . .
I just have no patience left for such people or the pain they cause - and - yepper, I know that's not 100% on topic.
But they don't have the 'goods' on Buddhism my dear friend, so when I see them talking about it, once in a while I will give a different view -
- and, like I say, I agree 100% with your premise, as I understand it - and wish to show you my support for good intelligence and helpful views --- views that lead towards happiness and peace, light and truth, faith and health, etc - to all good things, basically --
Since I was 18 many many lifetimes ago, I knew that all is light - that there is never a reason for worry or doubt - and that none of us really need to be here. . . So it's nice to see your posts in fact.
Anyway - I'm here. So I will work for peace and light with gladness and keep working to heal the earth. . .
materialism is not necessary for happiness. . .etc.
Love and Peace.

Jake
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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withoutlabel
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Registered: 06/09/15
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The current world is stabilizing, no? The majority of those going through the motions day to day, not being overly exposed to repressive programming, not questioning or straining against it but submitting without more than an occasionally dysphoric thought to a culture of distractions, vices and materialism seem to be stable.
Doesn't awakening, the spark required, necessitate a certain destabilization even turmoil and suffering? Poking a motherfucker in their ignored third eye to get into their mind and remove some blinders is difficult to do smoothly.
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saenchai
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Thanks for your posts Jake. I understand now where I made errors in judgement. Peace.
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended



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Quote:
Doesn't awakening, the spark required, necessitate a certain destabilization even turmoil and suffering?
I don't think it has to. But... The problem is the operational paradigm of western cultures when approaching the individual who is experiencing the trans-personal. In my case there seems to be a 'specific' even intended lack of understanding regarding these states in positions of authority. Perhaps people are too stable in thinking that their authority on the matter is valid anymore. Especially if they have no experience. So... I advocate mandatory 'experiences' of the transcendent be had by the many even if it does cause annihilation of their perceived selves. That would at least allow for more informed conclusions about THAT and perhaps involve a more evolved authority. (Maybe I'm just in a rural area with a lack a diversity) Its all so temporary anyway... The thoughts and the memories and the behaviors... What is left is the true observer and we should start from there. Intentional destabilization cause its too stable. I think allot of people would see true change and when 'awakening' or what have you, they could be surrounded with support instead of disbelief, stigma, and rejection.
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Quote:
FishOilTheKid said: I don't think it has to. But... The problem is the operational paradigm of western cultures when approaching the individual who is experiencing the trans-personal. In my case there seems to be a 'specific' even intended lack of understanding regarding these states in positions of authority. Perhaps people are too stable in thinking that their authority on the matter is valid anymore. Especially if they have no experience. So... I advocate mandatory 'experiences' of the transcendent be had by the many even if it does cause annihilation of their perceived selves. That would at least allow for more informed conclusions about THAT and perhaps involve a more evolved authority. (Maybe I'm just in a rural area with a lack a diversity) Its all so temporary anyway... The thoughts and the memories and the behaviors... What is left is the true observer and we should start from there. Intentional destabilization cause its too stable. I think allot of people would see true change and when 'awakening' or what have you, they could be surrounded with support instead of disbelief, stigma, and rejection.
I like your post very much. I could play the cynic by saying that we tried that already, and it failed -- it was called the 1960s. But the idealist in me says that doesn't mean we shouldn't try it again. I don't deem it too likely, though -- that is, succeeding, or even really trying, either.
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Quote:
withoutlabel said: The current world is stabilizing, no? The majority of those going through the motions day to day, not being overly exposed to repressive programming, not questioning or straining against it but submitting without more than an occasionally dysphoric thought to a culture of distractions, vices and materialism seem to be stable.
Doesn't awakening, the spark required, necessitate a certain destabilization even turmoil and suffering? Poking a motherfucker in their ignored third eye to get into their mind and remove some blinders is difficult to do smoothly.
You are absolutely right - people must be shaken up - woken up . . . yet how to do this without harming them? Always a curious question.
Like when you shake a tree with some ants in it - this shakes 'em and wakes 'em up. . .
With humanity - one of the big issues is that when they become weak, and stupid - then they become easily manipulable. . .
This is why I stress - Have no fear - Think for yourself, and find the truth for yourself.
It's those who care enough about the truth to search it and find it --- as Vivekananda said,
'i Know few people believe in God because - consider a man who knows there is an immeasurable treasure in the adjoining room - let us say; a robber or thief --- then that person would do everything conceivable to get through that door, to get to the treasure.'
Yet where people are now - as you mention, deeply engrained into ignorance - shaking them up often only makes them angry - and this doesn't help in the long - term, they don't learn anything.
As. . . we generally don't learn anything by being angry - when emotions get too high - the brain basically shuts down some very important areas. . .
So this question - how to wake people up - is definitely key. . . and the skill required, the sheer vast amounts of patience required, are pretty big. . .
That is - it's the greatest achievement to overcome self - to attain self-mastery; peace, etc. - and, even more required to share it with others. . .
Yet this - precisely because of its poignant challenge - or partially at least - is what makes it so worthwhile. . .
Actually, attaining peace is the most worthwhile for several reasons ---
And yet - even there we see, there are yet others who even surpass . . . so that is the thing - whatever we achieve - that is not an ultimate ; that is merely a partial accomplishment, which would be surpassed by the next generation ( of those who learn from the previous ones, even those who start out with innate knowledge )
Namaste and Peace.
That took me about 2 minutes. Peace and Love.

Whoever is in darkness will see dark - whoever lives in Light will see light. Those who are free will say to others : "You are free" generally - not some law or rule or dogma, just a natural thing that occurs. . Same as those who are in darkness will affect others to that extent - until they get themselves free, and actually learn how to work for the happiness of others, and
begin to care about the earth.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended



Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 5,401
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
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I knew that would probably be the response. But thanks!
I have this gut feeling like the script was flipped and the reality of the paranormal had to be denied after a great deal was learned then. Something happened. Now 'normality' is enforced and consciousness expansion, and trans-personal experiences are unheard of and not believed to be anything novel.
On purpose. Surrounding me.
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Dear Fish oil the Kid,
with so much joyy and friendship . . .. whch- means a lot to me
anyway.
agree 100% with all you say basically. my issue here is not pricking the mentality of the
earth-raping-consciousness
which is living in mansions, etc. etc. -
i am talking about those who destabalize others out of shadenfreude, or enjoyment at their pain.
which i have seen on here, by various people, as undoubtedly, simply an after-effect of learned behavior and conformity,
which is, too nice for me,
but that is the de-stabalization procedure i was talking about.
Peace and Love.
Jake
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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withoutlabel
Stranger

Registered: 06/09/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Quote:
FishOilTheKid said: I knew that would probably be the response. But thanks!
I have this gut feeling like the script was flipped and the reality of the paranormal had to be denied after a great deal was learned then. Something happened. Now 'normality' is enforced and consciousness expansion, and trans-personal experiences are unheard of and not believed to be anything novel.
On purpose. Surrounding me.
Absolutely. An above post mentioned that those in positions of authority don't have an understanding of the trans-personal but I disagree. I think there are plenty in those positions who have a very great understanding of the trans-personal (if not weakened affinity for due to their diminished empathy) but use it in order to control, sedate, blind the masses, repress those coming to an understanding of it but won't play ball with the establishment, seek out the next generation of perceived masters, etc.
The potential for a paradigm shift in consciousness is there. There are those in high positions working against this.
Another reason why I wonder if acting as a catalyst for awakening should be done slowly, smoothly. The old guard is not hesitating to tighten their fist, should we afford time to limit what should only be temporary suffering? Then too I see a major cause of suffering involved in awakening is how the system works to repress those going through it and would be less able to repress larger and larger amounts of expanding consciousness.
But on the other hand we do have what is effectively eternity to evolve mind.
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended



Registered: 11/14/10
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Quote:
there are plenty in those positions who have a very great understanding of the trans-personal (if not weakened affinity for due to their diminished empathy) but use it in order to control, sedate, blind the masses, repress those coming to an understanding of it
Yes. Like an enlightened class that is hiring specifically ignorant servants to advance and reinforce an agenda of nondisclosure when it comes to actuality. An ignorant authority under the real string pullers that just happen to be psychiatrists and doctors and politicians and police and social workers.
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withoutlabel
Stranger

Registered: 06/09/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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BTW, has anyone seen these communities on the internet discussing 'glitches in the matrix', 'mandala effect' or the 'barenstein/stain bears'? I fucking love that this is becoming a thing. I don't really think that they are necessarily on the right path so far as how most of those following these things see the mechanisms behind it but they are so, so close to being exposed to global (un)consciousness and how to interact with it. After discovering that, it seems that enlightenment begins to shower.
Now admittedly I was not around for the 1960s and the whole ethneogen renaissance but there is such a significant portion of this generation totally primed for the trans-personal/metaphysical without drugs or a previously spiritual/mythical background. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's special and a really unique ground in recent history.
More on topic, some ridiculous lyrics that have spoken to me:
[quote=Black Eyed Peas]I got freaky, freaky, baby I was chillin with my ladies I didnt come to get bougie I came here to get crazy I was born to get wiiild Thats my styyyle If you didnt know that Well, baby, now you know now
Cause Im! Havin! A good! Time! With you! Im tellin you
Ive had the time of my life And Ive never felt this way before And I swear this is true And I owe it all to you
To those who played their part in awakening me for their own reasoning and may now regret it. I just enjoy being a firestarter, k. W/e, personally I appear to be in position to be a perfect storm to indiscriminately scream into motherfuckers third eyes and be personally undisturbed by the fallout. I hesitate on the effect it has on others but I continue marching to my own drum.
Edited by withoutlabel (10/11/15 11:47 PM)
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