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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: topdog82]
    #22362839 - 10/11/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I would ask a Buddhist, about Buddhism, if I did not know about Buddhism and were interested to learn about it.

Thay has been quite wonderful for me, the leader of his community -

it is NOT nihilism, nor does it ' deny everything about you. '

Once again - ask a Buddhist master  ( they are actually quite welcoming )


I also - with due respect to those who have done their best - would not recommend those who say that hard drugs are better for you than soft drugs - etc. ---- and other things.



I have to come to understand that this view is responsible for incredibly vast amounts of ----- time wasting.  I will say time-wasting instead of suffering, but that term works if you want.


What words could I possibly use to express this - I don't know really. . . Take a bit of each and which is good or not good for you ------------- a good question to ask. .


I also find it almost beyond disingenuous for someone to come to Shroomery and tell people not to take Shrooms or things like that - but that's okay,


and it's just me,



and all resolves into light and peace in the end ---- am not seeking to argue, just to present what I have observed.




Once again - go to the source - if you wish to learn about Buddhism or any other - don't take interpretations with anything more than a grain of salt ---- and probably not even that.




As Thay mentions - your first love is not your first love, it is not your last.  It is just love - it is one with everything.


Exact words pretty much.


So --- clearly that's not anything like some of the mistaken views --------- but then,



naturally, you will find illness in a hospital - so I also recommend, find it all out yourself, 


out in nature - in total peace and beauty - follow your heart. . . this is another part of Buddhism. . .


Self- faith is basically key - Seng Ts'an ---

when trust and the mind are not two -
not two, trust and mind -
then all words break off,
no past, no future, no now.


As well as talks plenty about how there is 'no coming, no going' - but these are kind of concepts ---- which, you have to experience --- nor are they much different from other religions' views. . . Look at inter-faith people, and other stuff. . . Rumi, and others, compare very nicely to the saint-poets and gurus of most Buddhism.


As Thay again, says, ' Reality is beyond every concept - even the concept of inter-dependence. '



What do they see? 

What do you see?





maybe they see a lot of bleakness or nihilism - I sure the hell don't.



This is why - 'Don't follow others' holds so true -- Your heart, your inner light - that is always, and forever the best guide.


Follow your heart always.



You don't need any teacher, except what you know in your heart to be true - and yes, all beings know in their heart what is good and true. 



'Though a house may be boarded up for a thousand years, when the doors are opened, and the light is let in - light floods the whole room immediately.'  (paraphrased, from Maitripa, a character from Tibetan Buddhism, a little bit shrouded in lore and mystery.


Ah----- I just remembered, one other thing I was about to share earlier - ... Am not trying to preach for Buddhism - or anything like that - 


One other beautiful thing Thay shared, was - he wants people simply to reconnect with their own traditions and roots  ( I looked for exact quote but was lazy ;-) )


So in other words - not trying to convert. . .  Thay also shares a simple path - peace and happiness.  Happiness for ourself and others - and peace - is the basis of peace work. . . 'When you are happy and peaceful, when you smile with joy, not only your family and friends, but the whole world profits.'  (not quite exact)


and 'Happiness is not the destination - happiness is the way'


as well as 'Good will is not enough, we must learn the art of making people happy.'



Just some little giblets. . . Having a perfect memory from birth helps - also I knew that all humans have such - if they only learn how. :heart:

:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:  Peace and Love  :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:



Dalai Lama is also one who is not interested in converting people - I believe I heard him say.


About reincarnation ( next post if I post here again will be more on topic ). . . lovely. . . one of the loveliest things I heard about it was by someone I respect -- on here -- along the lines of

' Every person and every being on the planet is one of your incarnations. . . '


quite beautiful. . . and he wrote some other words on it which were rather similar.


Anyway, just sharing some love.


Peace. :heart:


Love to you Saenchi and Topdog - and all of Shroomery.


--------------------
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I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22363116 - 10/11/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

If I have characterized him correctly, the buddha's love was tempered by wisdom and clearness and he was not an unabashedly compassionate person. I will never discount the grace and happiness that Buddhism can lend a person. I do love every reflection of me and I also love my individuated soul unit. I love it enough to not want it stuck reincarnating on a planet of negative polarity. Learning ones lessons and leaving is the most important. The Buddha didn't say anything about me needing to stick around and be a good person for all of eternity so to me, it seems understanding exactly how and why we get to leave and why we came here gets to the core of the issue.

I'm not sure what the main idea of your post is but I have just as much of a right to offer my perspective as you do yours. Why did you blanket this thread over with a diatribe on various tenets and qualities of buddhism? Do you deny that Buddhism itself was created in order to help people escape this world as efficiently as possible? What are we really talking about here? I apologize if I'm being too straight forward but discussions such as these get places a lot faster when we talk about what we mean to talk about.


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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai]
    #22363193 - 10/11/15 12:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Not a problem at all, dear Saenchi.  I agree with you - there is no reason to stay in this universe indefinitely - all pressures can melt away, and it's not difficult for this to happen.

My apologies as well - for rambling.  My main thing is to share happiness with people. . to help all come to their own Ideal - if they wish - if they do not; I give them my best and go elsewhere -- it isn't my business what their Ideal is - I do wish for each to achieve their own, however.  This is something I got ( partially ) from Vivekananda.


Part of my issue is the fact that people have come on here - with seemingly the ulterior motive of spreading materialism -


and they talk about spirit and what not --- the thing is - you can tell a person's heart by the effect they have on others...


Some people wish to de-stabalize others - because of a learned behavior, only - and this shows where their heart is, etc.


Further - I am simply, as I said, wishing to share a little love.  Those who talk about darkness and pain only do so because they have not experienced the other side of life. . .


And they who try to say hard drugs are better than soft drugs --- the harm they have done is great. . .


So that's my goal here --- Just being here, sharing my light and life with others.


I actually have a pretty much - totally in agreement with you; there is no need for this world, for its suffering - etc.



I have known this since birth almost, and known the light of it --- known since almost birth that all is light, and the meaning of this - etc.



One of the main things is that there is infinite light - and peace - and there is no cause for sadness.

' Sorrow was never of any use to anyone ' as Will Blake put it.



Fear of death is an aberration and it is not normal -- sadness and fear of any kind are artificial and learned -- they are not natural. . . not really.


If there is infinite light - if death and life are one - then there is no cause for sadness, no matter what may come. 


There is no reason for this world to not be a paradise - and, so this is what I'm here for. . .



Not - in terms of words, or doctrine - as many have said - it is Life which matters - not the words.



And there is Infinite Life - within all of us -  So - am here to share with peace and happiness that none of that darkness is necessary.



Forgive me for going off- topic.  I have certainly never seen you talk about hard drugs as better for us --------------- yet this is the legal status of our day-  and, as I've come to realize, probably the most important issue --


I know that's not the main topic of your thread - so that's why, again I wished to say, abot your points I am in total agreement with you --


and also do value your your insight very much and enjoy learning from other beings on the upward spiral.



I hope you understand this :sun: and that I wish you happiness and consider you as Gold as Light - as a living being, this is what I consider you to be.


Just keep shining light for as long as you are alive - that's all we have to do, I'd say. .. 


Following one's heart leads to success -- this is a strong truth.



Those who are free - always - eternally - continually, tell others, 'You are free,' -


' Open your eyes, you are eternally and infinitely free.  Illusion is nothing. '


Peace and light,

:sun:

Jake


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22363215 - 10/11/15 12:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

. . .


as to explain my confusing parts of it -


. . .


two of my ancestors died from alcohol and I am just sharing a little light and love for their sake - - -


And those who say alcohol - a hard drug - is better than Sacred plants, Holy herbs - Sacrament and the most holy plants on the planet. . .


I just have no patience left for such people or the pain they cause - and - yepper, I know that's not 100% on topic.


But they don't have the 'goods' on Buddhism my dear friend, so when I see them talking about it, once in a while I will give a different view -


- and, like I say, I agree 100% with your premise, as I understand it - and wish to show you my support for good intelligence and helpful views --- views that lead towards happiness and peace, light and truth, faith and health, etc - to all good things, basically --


Since I was 18 many many lifetimes ago, I knew that all is light - that there is never a reason for worry or doubt - and that none of us really need to be here. . . So it's nice to see your posts in fact.


Anyway - I'm here.  So I will work for peace and light with gladness and keep working to heal the earth. . .


materialism is not necessary for happiness. . .etc.


Love and Peace.

:heart:

Jake


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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Offlinewithoutlabel
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22363305 - 10/11/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The current world is stabilizing, no? The majority of those going through the motions day to day, not being overly exposed to repressive programming, not questioning or straining against it but submitting without more than an occasionally dysphoric thought to a culture of distractions, vices and materialism seem to be stable.

Doesn't awakening, the spark required, necessitate a certain destabilization even turmoil and suffering? Poking a motherfucker in their ignored third eye to get into their mind and remove some blinders is difficult to do smoothly.


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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: withoutlabel]
    #22363384 - 10/11/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for your posts Jake. I understand now where I made errors in judgement. Peace.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: withoutlabel]
    #22363459 - 10/11/15 02:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Doesn't awakening, the spark required, necessitate a certain destabilization even turmoil and suffering?




I don't think it has to.  But...  The problem is the operational paradigm of western cultures when approaching the individual who is experiencing the trans-personal.  In my case there seems to be a 'specific' even intended lack of understanding regarding these states in positions of authority.  Perhaps people are too stable in thinking that their authority on the matter is valid anymore.  Especially if they have no experience.  So...  I advocate mandatory 'experiences' of the transcendent be had by the many even if it does cause annihilation of their perceived selves.  That would at least allow for more informed conclusions about THAT and perhaps involve a more evolved authority.  (Maybe I'm just in a rural area with a lack a diversity)  Its all so temporary anyway...  The thoughts and the memories and the behaviors...  What is left is the true observer and we should start from there.  Intentional destabilization cause its too stable.  I think allot of people would see true change and when 'awakening' or what have you, they could be surrounded with support instead of disbelief, stigma, and rejection.


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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #22363484 - 10/11/15 02:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:heart:

:sun:


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #22363566 - 10/11/15 02:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
I don't think it has to.  But...  The problem is the operational paradigm of western cultures when approaching the individual who is experiencing the trans-personal.  In my case there seems to be a 'specific' even intended lack of understanding regarding these states in positions of authority.  Perhaps people are too stable in thinking that their authority on the matter is valid anymore.  Especially if they have no experience.  So...  I advocate mandatory 'experiences' of the transcendent be had by the many even if it does cause annihilation of their perceived selves.  That would at least allow for more informed conclusions about THAT and perhaps involve a more evolved authority.  (Maybe I'm just in a rural area with a lack a diversity)  Its all so temporary anyway...  The thoughts and the memories and the behaviors...  What is left is the true observer and we should start from there.  Intentional destabilization cause its too stable.  I think allot of people would see true change and when 'awakening' or what have you, they could be surrounded with support instead of disbelief, stigma, and rejection.





I like your post very much.  I could play the cynic by saying that we tried that already, and it failed -- it was called the 1960s.  But the idealist in me says that doesn't mean we shouldn't try it again.  I don't deem it too likely, though -- that is, succeeding, or even really trying, either.


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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: withoutlabel]
    #22363600 - 10/11/15 02:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

withoutlabel said:
The current world is stabilizing, no? The majority of those going through the motions day to day, not being overly exposed to repressive programming, not questioning or straining against it but submitting without more than an occasionally dysphoric thought to a culture of distractions, vices and materialism seem to be stable.

Doesn't awakening, the spark required, necessitate a certain destabilization even turmoil and suffering? Poking a motherfucker in their ignored third eye to get into their mind and remove some blinders is difficult to do smoothly.




You are absolutely right - people must be shaken up - woken up . . . yet how to do this without harming them?  Always a curious question.

Like when you shake a tree with some ants in it - this shakes 'em and wakes 'em up. . .


With humanity - one of the big issues is that when they become weak, and stupid - then they become easily manipulable. . .


This is why I stress - Have no fear - Think for yourself, and find the truth for yourself.

It's those who care enough about the truth to search it and find it ---  as Vivekananda said,


'i Know few people believe in God because - consider a man who knows there is an immeasurable treasure in the adjoining room - let us say; a robber or thief --- then that person would do everything conceivable to get through that door, to get to the treasure.'


Yet where people are now - as you mention, deeply engrained into ignorance - shaking them up often only makes them angry - and this doesn't help in the long - term, they don't learn anything.


As. . . we generally don't learn anything by being angry - when emotions get too high - the brain basically shuts down some very important areas. . .


So this question - how to wake people up - is definitely key. . . and the skill required, the sheer vast amounts of patience required, are pretty big. . .


That is - it's the greatest achievement to overcome self - to attain self-mastery; peace, etc. - and, even more required to share it with others. . .


Yet this - precisely because of its poignant challenge - or partially at least - is what makes it so worthwhile. . .


Actually, attaining peace is the most worthwhile for several reasons ---


And yet - even there we see, there are yet others who even surpass . . . so that is the thing - whatever we achieve - that is not an ultimate ; that is merely a partial accomplishment, which would be surpassed by the next generation ( of those who learn from the previous ones, even those who start out with innate knowledge )


Namaste and Peace.


That took me about 2 minutes.  Peace and Love.

:heart:


Whoever is in darkness will see dark - whoever lives in Light will see light.  Those who are free will say to others : "You are free" generally - not some law or rule or dogma, just a natural thing that occurs. .  Same as those who are in darkness will affect others to that extent - until they get themselves free, and actually learn how to work for the happiness of others, and




begin to care about the earth.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22363622 - 10/11/15 02:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I knew that would probably be the response.:lol:  But thanks!:peace:

I have this gut feeling like the script was flipped and the reality of the paranormal had to be denied after a great deal was learned then.  Something happened.  Now 'normality' is enforced and consciousness expansion, and trans-personal experiences are unheard of and not believed to be anything novel.:ifyoucanawe:

On purpose.  Surrounding me.:uhoh:


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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #22363668 - 10/11/15 02:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Dear Fish oil the Kid,


with so much joyy and friendship . . ..  whch- means a lot to me




anyway.


agree 100% with all you say basically.  my issue here is not pricking the mentality of the



earth-raping-consciousness


which is living in mansions, etc. etc. -



i am talking about those who destabalize others out of shadenfreude, or enjoyment at their pain.



which i have seen on here, by various people, as undoubtedly, simply an after-effect of learned behavior and conformity,


which is, too nice for me,



but that is the de-stabalization procedure i was talking about.



Peace and Love.

Jake


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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Offlinewithoutlabel
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #22366098 - 10/11/15 10:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
I knew that would probably be the response.:lol:  But thanks!:peace:

I have this gut feeling like the script was flipped and the reality of the paranormal had to be denied after a great deal was learned then.  Something happened.  Now 'normality' is enforced and consciousness expansion, and trans-personal experiences are unheard of and not believed to be anything novel.:ifyoucanawe:

On purpose.  Surrounding me.:uhoh:




Absolutely. An above post mentioned that those in positions of authority don't have an understanding of the trans-personal but I disagree. I think there are plenty in those positions who have a very great understanding of the trans-personal (if not weakened affinity for due to their diminished empathy) but use it in order to control, sedate, blind the masses, repress those coming to an understanding of it but won't play ball with the establishment, seek out the next generation of perceived masters, etc.

The potential for a paradigm shift in consciousness is there. There are those in high positions working against this.

Another reason why I wonder if acting as a catalyst for awakening should be done slowly, smoothly. The old guard is not hesitating to tighten their fist, should we afford time to limit what should only be temporary suffering? Then too I see a major cause of suffering involved in awakening is how the system works to repress those going through it and would be less able to repress larger and larger amounts of expanding consciousness.

But on the other hand we do have what is effectively eternity to evolve mind.


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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: withoutlabel]
    #22366175 - 10/11/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

there are plenty in those positions who have a very great understanding of the trans-personal (if not weakened affinity for due to their diminished empathy) but use it in order to control, sedate, blind the masses, repress those coming to an understanding of it




Yes.  Like an enlightened class that is hiring specifically ignorant servants to advance and reinforce an agenda of nondisclosure when it comes to actuality.  An ignorant authority under the real string pullers that just happen to be psychiatrists and doctors and politicians and police and social workers.


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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #22366213 - 10/11/15 11:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

BTW, has anyone seen these communities on the internet discussing 'glitches in the matrix', 'mandala effect' or the 'barenstein/stain bears'? I fucking love that this is becoming a thing. I don't really think that they are necessarily on the right path so far as how most of those following these things see the mechanisms behind it but they are so, so close to being exposed to global (un)consciousness and how to interact with it. After discovering that, it seems that enlightenment begins to shower.

Now admittedly I was not around for the 1960s and the whole ethneogen renaissance but there is such a significant portion of this generation totally primed for the trans-personal/metaphysical without drugs or a previously spiritual/mythical background. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's special and a really unique ground in recent history.

More on topic, some ridiculous lyrics that have spoken to me:

[quote=Black Eyed Peas]I got freaky, freaky, baby
I was chillin with my ladies
I didnt come to get bougie
I came here to get crazy
I was born to get wiiild
Thats my styyyle
If you didnt know that
Well, baby, now you know now

Cause Im!
Havin!
A good! Time!
With you!
Im tellin you

Ive had the time of my life
And Ive never felt this way before
And I swear this is true
And I owe it all to you




To those who played their part in awakening me for their own reasoning and may now regret it. I just enjoy being a firestarter, k. W/e, personally I appear to be in position to be a perfect storm to indiscriminately scream into motherfuckers third eyes  and be personally undisturbed by the fallout. I hesitate on the effect it has on others but I continue marching to my own drum.




Edited by withoutlabel (10/11/15 11:47 PM)


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