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Offlinesaenchai
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Registered: 10/05/14
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Forced Reincarnation * 1
    #22268078 - 09/21/15 04:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Please forgive my brashness, but this seems important. When you think about the worldview of most people who have an Eastern or new age bent, you would probably find that they accept the idea of reincarnation until eventual enlightenment and the various challenges in this reality to be a generally benevolent, unavoidable process and in their best interest, if not challenging at times.

While this is generally the case on an absolute level, it can be helpful to consider that reincarnation into this particular reality used to not be an automatic process but was a choice, and that some people end up reincarnating here for a long time when if they really had the chance to make a conscious choice they might want to leave.

This post refers to an alternate means of leaving the reincarnation cycle outside of achieving buddhahood, the main idea being that the original purpose of this simulation has been hijacked in some ways by "private interests". Of course, on the most absolute level nothing can be fundamentally wrong since it is basically a stage play but there can't be any harm in being more aware of choices available to us. That being said, I will post a link that explains this idea better and welcome any discussion on the topic.

http://in5d.com/how-to-exit-the-reincarnation-system/

This post is pretty much for people that already subscribe to the idea of reincarnation on any level. If you don't, please enjoy your personal worldview but it would seem kind of pointless to criticize these ideas since the point of this thread is not defending or arguing for positions. I am curious to hear others' opinions. If youre interested in further exploring the topic, Wes Penre's website goes into the most detail I've seen anywhere about metaphysical science and the nature of the multiverses.


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OfflineTheKingofLimbs
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Registered: 09/14/15
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai]
    #22268339 - 09/21/15 07:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

My girlfriend is a medium and we speak with my dead brother when he comes around. I asked him about reincarnation and this is what he said:

1. you can choose to reincarnate if you want
2. you reincarnate if you are not truly sorry for the things you did on earth that either deprived people of their life or free will.
3. reincarnation can be in the form of plants or animals if reincarnating into them teaches you a lesson that you would not find as a human.
4. reincarnation is like flunking
5. most people just cross over and stay in heaven


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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: TheKingofLimbs]
    #22269115 - 09/21/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

That makes sense. Do you agree or disagree that people can end up being needlessly recycled into this system because of belief systems they learn during a lifetime or a lack of awareness of the larger universe there is to explore upon death?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: TheKingofLimbs]
    #22271110 - 09/21/15 07:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

No offense to your girlfriend, but the ancient established religious traditions differ on transmigration of the soul. In Buddhism, there is NO soul, and rebirth is NOT reincarnation. Completely different mechanisms in these faiths, and neither is a choice. In both of those traditions, reincarnation/rebirth is a result of karma and one may take a break in Hindu thought and spend some positive karmic merit in one of the heaven planes, but reincarnation will occur. In Judaism, there IS a soul, and transmigration into another human life is punishment (gilgul, cycle) for not being "fruitful" and having children. In Hinduism, there is the metaphysical possibility in the Bhagavad Gita of regressing into an animal body, but typically in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, one takes birth in the Hell Realm, not in the Animal Realm, or into a plant (no represented realms of the vegetable life forms). Some Gnostic Christians entertained Greek notions of transmigration (deriving from Pythagorus and his school, probably influenced by Indian thought).  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgul


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineTheKingofLimbs
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22281428 - 09/23/15 09:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I like your thoughts using combined religious texts and knowledge. Very interesting.

My brother says that all religions have a truth, but none of them are 100% correct. After you cross over, from what he says, you get a choice as to what you want to do if you are allowed to stay in heaven and are not forced to reincarnate.


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OfflineTheKingofLimbs
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai]
    #22281434 - 09/23/15 09:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

That makes sense. Do you agree or disagree that people can end up being needlessly recycled into this system because of belief systems they learn during a lifetime or a lack of awareness of the larger universe there is to explore upon death?




I think reincarnation has more to do with what you do while you are on Earth, rather than as a belief system.


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The Newb Forum


Edited by TheKingofLimbs (09/23/15 10:00 PM)


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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: TheKingofLimbs]
    #22281873 - 09/24/15 12:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I guess that's the point I'm trying to bring up. Most spirit guides in the fourth dimension around the earth grid are false light beings who try (rather successfully i might add) to sell us the illusion that our karma binds us to certain experiences. Karma is an illusory contract because on the other side everything is even and is looked back upon as an interesting game played in earnest with fellow souls whether you pretended to be a good guy or a bad guy. Regardless of who we were, what we experienced, and what we did to people.

The light of god is all inclusive at the soul level. All is instantly forgiven because hey, at the end of the day we are one experiencing itself subjectively and we created that experience for ourself to learn. You really think "God" can or would even want to put people in time out like that? People who originally had valid lessons to learn here or came out of fascination can get amnesia after every lifetime and can't remember that they have the choice to leave and go back to heaven.

Those spirit guides have their own agenda that isnt necessarily in our best interest. Most lightworkers have a skewed sense of how deceptive this reality can be and become agents of the false light beings unwittingly. Ie lots of new age and religious leaders these days.

We are all pieces of God the creator and all we have to do to break a cycle of reincarnation is have the awareness to refuse to consent to another incarnation, refuse the tunnel of light, and then leave the earth grid as a soul. Whether we were a king, beggar, thief, priest, whatever. What sort of pathetic demiurge would order our souls to be confined to one difficult reality until we grow up when there are trillions of games to play?

Free will is built into the fabric of creation. Anybody who says otherwise is either evil or mislead. Fuck Jesus, fuck the Buddha, fuck Shiva, fuck yahweh, fuck the "angels", fuck the " ascended masters". They can all eat a fat one. If even one person reads this and remembers a little that they have more free will than a fucking simulation reality, I will be glad. It irks me so much to see reflections of me stuck in this place. I'm going to stop posting on this website now, I don't think it is serving me to share my thoughts here any longer. Thanks for listening.


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InvisibleKurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai]
    #22283980 - 09/24/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe a choice is what's imposed. For example, if you think about an intelligible choice, or if this thought process arises, you will choose to live in all likelihood.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai] * 1
    #22285355 - 09/24/15 06:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

saenchai said:I'm going to stop posting on this website now, I don't think it is serving me to share my thoughts here any longer. Thanks for listening.



Why?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: TheKingofLimbs]
    #22285468 - 09/24/15 06:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't really see why you should take your brother as an authority on the inner workings of the universe and the evolution of the soul simply because he is dis-embodied. Most of the channeled material I have come across in contradictory and IMO untrustworthy. I think the eastern spiritual traditions and metaphysics agree upon the fact that a human body and brain is required in order to attain enlightenment and therefore you would be better of looking for spiritual authorities which were real living and breathing people. Also that is the reason why the heaven state is only temporal because it will not lead to the souls liberation and your souls karmic ties or Sanskrit impressions will cause you to be reborn again. Meher Baba is my spiritual authority and he gives incredibly detailed and logically satisfying explanations for these things.


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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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OfflineTheKingofLimbs
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
    #22290097 - 09/25/15 08:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

contradictory and untrustworthy information can not come from those that have crossed over. It is intrinsically against their nature to lie.


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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: TheKingofLimbs]
    #22353886 - 10/09/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Bump.

For whoever is interested, I have an addition to make to my original post. I have had a few personal experiences now which confirm to me the validity of what I said in the previous posts. I have also consulted what some people might call a shaman or spirit guide and he confirmed to me what was said above but he added something important.

It is not enough to simply be aware of the fact that you can leave. The false light beings are skilled at hypnotizing and tricking souls into the tunnel regardless of their intention while dying and separating from the body. He said the real prerequisites to leaving the earth grid and experiencing true freedom are to either develop ones own ability to astral project in this lifetime and become proficient in the astral plane to the point that you cannot be swayed or tricked out of disorientation, or to fully master ones spiritual connection.

I would imagine doing both is ideal but he said one or the other is fine. If you connect well enough to source, you will be steeped in truth enough at death not to be swayed. The whole point is that it used to be a lot easier but in modern times people get programmed up from every direction to not care about their spiritual connection or to put their energy into some false connection with some idea or principle that isn't real. The tricky part is that they often leave a little truth in to make it seem real but it isn't. Not to mention the psychic attacks and hypnotic tricks upon death on top of all of that. It has basically become an elaborate prison system.

I have also found a very short video which explains this so well so I'll add that too if anybody is interested. If you want to hear what my personal experiences were that confirmed this to me, I will share those too. This is the most important information I've come across in my life and I feel obliged to share it with people who are looking for similar information.

I am not afraid as I realize that this reality just happens to be one of the more challenging ones and that ultimately, we are here to understand just how powerful we really are despite very stacked odds. Ultimately, harm cannot really come to a soul and every soul makes it back to the light eventually. Still, I'd rather pick up experience packets somewhere with less of a negative polarity which doesn't try to mess with my free will so much. If you want to actually ascend this lifetime, not fake ascension as per new (c)age programming which is just one of many hypnosises handed down by the intelligent controllers, better get serious because every angle can and will be used against you to keep you trapped and distracted.




Hah. I guess nobody is interested in hearing the truth lol. If or when you ever go out of body, please visit the bardo area and verify these things for yourself. Don't take my word for it or some other person's word for it. Anything else is just blind hearsay no matter how sacred or holy a belief system is said to be or how loving it feels. Taking things on faith can be a dangerous thing. The whole point of this section of the universe is letting light and dark run free without restraint as an experiment to see which prevails and provide learning experiences at the micro and macro level. The dark exists too and must be acknowledged the same way the creator acknowledges it as part of itself. To do otherwise is delusional and unbalanced. Have fun :wink:


Edited by saenchai (10/09/15 09:29 PM)


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22360978 - 10/10/15 10:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
No offense to your girlfriend, but the ancient established religious traditions differ on transmigration of the soul. In Buddhism, there is NO soul, and rebirth is NOT reincarnation. Completely different mechanisms in these faiths, and neither is a choice. In both of those traditions, reincarnation/rebirth is a result of karma and one may take a break in Hindu thought and spend some positive karmic merit in one of the heaven planes, but reincarnation will occur. In Judaism, there IS a soul, and transmigration into another human life is punishment (gilgul, cycle) for not being "fruitful" and having children. In Hinduism, there is the metaphysical possibility in the Bhagavad Gita of regressing into an animal body, but typically in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, one takes birth in the Hell Realm, not in the Animal Realm, or into a plant (no represented realms of the vegetable life forms). Some Gnostic Christians entertained Greek notions of transmigration (deriving from Pythagorus and his school, probably influenced by Indian thought).  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgul



WTFFF

I did not know this. I understood hinduism and buddhism to have near identical ideas of rebirth. Clearly I did not read closely enough. Can you please expand specifically on the differences between the hindu, buddhist, and jain ideas of rebirths?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: topdog82]
    #22361202 - 10/10/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
WTFFF

I did not know this. I understood hinduism and buddhism to have near identical ideas of rebirth. Clearly I did not read closely enough. Can you please expand specifically on the differences between the hindu, buddhist, and jain ideas of rebirths?




I'm sure Mark will provide a much more detailed and deeper answer, but as far as Buddhism is concerned, they disbelieve in a soul or really any type of unchanging self.  This was a principal insight of the Buddha -- total impermanence of everything.  Essentially, Nirvana is a kind of pure nothingness, certainly not bliss -- dissolved into pure consciousness.  Reincarnation and rebirth is considered to be a wholly involuntary process.  The only time voluntarism enters in is when a Bodhisattva deliberately chooses to reincarnate out of compassion.  In a way, to me, there is almost a nihilistic flair to the nothingness espoused by Buddhism.  It is not typically represented that way in the West, but just think:  Buddhism denies everything about you, it denies any lasting essence to everything you are, and if you're pure, you'll dissolve into nothingness.  "Nirvana," after all, means extinction.  The other reason I feel it has that flair is that life is considered essentially abysmal.  I dunno, just some personal reactions.  Here is a pretty good rundown of the Buddhist beliefs:  http://www.near-death.com/religion/buddhism/afterlife-beliefs.html


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22362180 - 10/11/15 08:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
WTFFF

I did not know this. I understood hinduism and buddhism to have near identical ideas of rebirth. Clearly I did not read closely enough. Can you please expand specifically on the differences between the hindu, buddhist, and jain ideas of rebirths?




I'm sure Mark will provide a much more detailed and deeper answer, but as far as Buddhism is concerned, they disbelieve in a soul or really any type of unchanging self.  This was a principal insight of the Buddha -- total impermanence of everything.  Essentially, Nirvana is a kind of pure nothingness, certainly not bliss -- dissolved into pure consciousness.  Reincarnation and rebirth is considered to be a wholly involuntary process.  The only time voluntarism enters in is when a Bodhisattva deliberately chooses to reincarnate out of compassion.  In a way, to me, there is almost a nihilistic flair to the nothingness espoused by Buddhism.  It is not typically represented that way in the West, but just think:  Buddhism denies everything about you, it denies any lasting essence to everything you are, and if you're pure, you'll dissolve into nothingness.  "Nirvana," after all, means extinction.  The other reason I feel it has that flair is that life is considered essentially abysmal.  I dunno, just some personal reactions.  Here is a pretty good rundown of the Buddhist beliefs:  http://www.near-death.com/religion/buddhism/afterlife-beliefs.html



Thanks! I think I read over some stuff on the internet and I got the general idea. IMO that seems lilke a strange idea but I guess if it works, it works

Mark; if you see this, please fill in on the part about jainism? i know very little about jainism and know even less about rebirth within jainism


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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: topdog82]
    #22362554 - 10/11/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Jeez man. Why don't you just go to the wikipedia page? Its not that complicated. I find it very strange that I claimed to have first hand experience of how to exit the reincarnation cycle and nobody is considering the implications of that. You're getting away from the original point of this thread.

DQ I have to agree with you. I think the nihilistic vibe comes from the fact that the Buddha was well aware that this place is basically a prison for souls. He is very straightforward in saying life (on this planet) is suffering and can be escaped. Frankly I think Buddhism is a benevolent attempt to shepard souls out of this reality from an advanced soul but it tells half truths and is ineffective in some ways. I don't know the "going-rate" of souls that leave earth per Buddhist teachings but I'd rather trust myself. I know some kinds of Buddhism say go to the light and that's voluntary imprisonment. The freedom of your soul is a pretty big deal to entrust to the teachings of some dead guy. If you want to have a chat about different kinds of Buddhism, please start your own thread topdog.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai]
    #22362584 - 10/11/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah saenchai, I followed your link and what I found was indeed very interesting.  One must take that with a grain of salt -- I mean, who am I to trust the writer of that article -- but I liked it and will keep it in the back of my mind for sure.  If there's one thing I'm pretty sure of, it's that higher realms are a lot like this world in several respects -- there's politics and power struggles, fighting, alliances, corruption, dishonesty, jealousy, duplicity, pettiness and any number of other things that make people wince about this planet.  So I do not dismiss what you have posted, and I appreciate the information.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22362727 - 10/11/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks. Obviously I couldnt reasonably expect a person to outright believe what I'm saying and I don't expect anyone to. I guess as a seeker of truth I strongly believe that a person shouldn't settle for second hand accounts because these days I am finding more and more that teachings I used to hold in high regard conflict with my direct experience of the higher realities. It's one thing to read the manual and another to drive the car to a specific destination. How does one know the unfailingly correct route unless one has already made the journey oneself? Seems like a pretty important thing to consider. I've read some bad directions before in life and got lost. I'd rather lock that one in then take it on faith. I'm not too keen on the whole idea of reincarnating for aeons.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: saenchai]
    #22362746 - 10/11/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Your post (and this thread) reminds me of the admonition of the Nazi archaeologist to Indiana Jones in Last Crusade:

Don't trust anybody.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: Forced Reincarnation [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22362775 - 10/11/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Haha yeah man. Not even me.


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