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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G???
#22263672 - 09/20/15 07:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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In the past, I've had major issues with bad spawn, more in particular bacteria. Most of my 99.99% colonized jars would have individual seeds that were pressed against the glass and took an extra 3-4 days to fully colonize the little individual seeds.
tr666After the 3 extra days, those separate seeds would either become covered in myc or only have more myc on the seed, still leaving a tiny tiny bit of itself on the glass. Normally I don't deal with this phenomenon, but I have before, however the seeds were much less colonized and had a ring of water around them. At that time, ALL of my bulk subs would get mold before the first flush even.
I have about 30 jars that I PC'd for 2 full hours to help with bacteria. I simmered for 30 minutes after only a couple hours of soak. Please have a look, so that I can make a decent guess. Just a reminder, I want to use these 2 for G2G with this new batch o WBS. Let me know if both jars look iffy or if they look solid, despite the tiny indivudual un-colonized seeds.
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Bugler Boy
Cultivar


Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 998
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
#22263685 - 09/20/15 07:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would call those 100% but for some reason somethings throwing me off. I don't see any rhizomorphic mycelium, they don't look very strong/healthy. When was the last shake?
Quote:
DinkinFlicka84 said:
tr666After the 3 extra days, those separate seeds would either become covered in myc or only have more myc on the seed, still leaving a tiny tiny bit of itself on the glass. Normally I don't deal with this phenomenon, but I have before, however the seeds were much less colonized and had a ring of water around them. At that time, ALL of my bulk subs would get mold before the first flush even.
I would say thats a classic case of dirty spawn, especially the less colonized grains with rings of water around them part.
-------------------- The mushroom speaks: '"I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life... How the hypercommunication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds"
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: Bugler Boy]
#22263780 - 09/20/15 08:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well, the water rings around the uncolonized grain was something I dealt with in the past. My last shake for these was on the 9 days ago. I had posted similar pics a couple of days ago and some other members said it would be just fine. Also, about half of the uncolonized grains actually recovered 100% and the grain was fully colonized to where you couldn't see the spot of the grain anymore.
This is my biggest question right now. Members told me to shake the jar again and see if the jar recovers fully. Well, it did, because it's fully colonized. They said it would stall or at least partially stall even if it was just bacteria, but I haven't seen any stalling, except if you call these tiny spots stalling.
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: Bugler Boy]
#22263875 - 09/20/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well, you were right. God damn it. That was a lot of time and effort into those jars and I was anticipating a very good harvest. I thought I would just open one up and smell it, which I should've done DAYS ago, which I could've had a jump start on the next batch, since I have 32 jars PC'd and ready to be knocked up.
They smelled like old seeds that you forgot about. Rotten, sweet, anything but mushroomy. Which is odd, because 99& of the jar is mycelium. But I am grateful that it tells me now with the smell and not to be SUPER bummed come yield time.
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Bugler Boy
Cultivar


Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 998
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Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
#22266515 - 09/20/15 07:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DinkinFlicka84 said: Well, you were right. God damn it. That was a lot of time and effort into those jars and I was anticipating a very good harvest. I thought I would just open one up and smell it, which I should've done DAYS ago, which I could've had a jump start on the next batch, since I have 32 jars PC'd and ready to be knocked up.
They smelled like old seeds that you forgot about. Rotten, sweet, anything but mushroomy. Which is odd, because 99& of the jar is mycelium. But I am grateful that it tells me now with the smell and not to be SUPER bummed come yield time.
Bummer, take it as a learning experience. Any other spawn or syringes or are the jars you prepped just sitting around?
-------------------- The mushroom speaks: '"I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life... How the hypercommunication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds"
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: Bugler Boy]
#22268030 - 09/21/15 03:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Honestly, yes. I have 3 MS from a trusted site that I've used about half of each one. B+, Burma and ChitWan. The only problem is in the past I would ALWAYS get bacteria when I did MS, even when I flame sterilized the syringe. I think I used way too much, like 1.5 cc per, but I've read online that others use 2cc's and don't have any issues.
Care to give some advice? My seeds are dry, but not as dry as they were when I was growing them well. I've hydrated the seeds more by simmeering for 30 min instead of 10 like i used to and I think that amount of water in the jar may be bad. There was no standing water in my jars and I always shake them quite a bit before I inoculate to spread the moisture.
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iSmkGrnBud
Psychonaut



Registered: 10/28/11
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Loc: Your subconscious
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
#22268060 - 09/21/15 03:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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1.5cc-2cc is absolutely too much. You can get away with it, but it's just pointless and a waste of spores. Try to use as little as possible, 1-2 drops is best. It could be the moisture content of the jars did you make sure they were dry to the touch? When simmering did you explode too many of the grains?
-------------------- iSmkGrnBud's Teks iSmkGrnBud's Wild Mushroom Finds  The Noob Forum's List of Teks “The probability of success is difficult to estimate; but if we never search the chance of success is zero.” -Giuseppe Cocconi
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: iSmkGrnBud]
#22268132 - 09/21/15 05:41 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the reply.
I made sure the grains didn't explode, even with 30 min simmer. I lay my WBS on towels after I simmer and strain for about 1-2 hours with a fan on them. i make sure the grains fall right off my hand and don't stick, but when I put the grain in the jars, some stick the glass when I turn it upside down. Is this ok?
Before this batch, I had a great flush or 3 from 10 min simmer and my grains were more dry and made rattling sounds in the jar. They were not as hydrated or swollen (which I thought was good and necessary to colonize well). They were small and dry, but everything went well.
It looks like I need to be more on the dry side and that bacteria is mainly cuased from water content of the jars.
I measured the temperature inside one of my jars today in my closet where I have a small heater that runs every 2 hours for about 10 min, keeping the closet at 80f. Well, the jar I measured with a digital meat thermometer was at 81-82f. Is that promoting bacteria? I rememeber a long time ago that 84f was prime conditions for mycelium, but now it's not. Why is that?
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Bugler Boy
Cultivar


Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 998
Loc: In your head
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
#22268262 - 09/21/15 07:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DinkinFlicka84 said: Thanks for the reply.
I made sure the grains didn't explode, even with 30 min simmer. I lay my WBS on towels after I simmer and strain for about 1-2 hours with a fan on them. i make sure the grains fall right off my hand and don't stick, but when I put the grain in the jars, some stick the glass when I turn it upside down. Is this ok?
Before this batch, I had a great flush or 3 from 10 min simmer and my grains were more dry and made rattling sounds in the jar. They were not as hydrated or swollen (which I thought was good and necessary to colonize well). They were small and dry, but everything went well.
It looks like I need to be more on the dry side and that bacteria is mainly cuased from water content of the jars.
I measured the temperature inside one of my jars today in my closet where I have a small heater that runs every 2 hours for about 10 min, keeping the closet at 80f. Well, the jar I measured with a digital meat thermometer was at 81-82f. Is that promoting bacteria? I rememeber a long time ago that 84f was prime conditions for mycelium, but now it's not. Why is that?
The seeds should rattle like BBs.
Ditch the heater, room temp 70-74*F is what you want for conolization. You most certainly can be promoting bacteria with 80+. You already saw inside the jars are a couple degrees warmer too.
If you have consistent bacteria problems the best two things you can do is go on the dry side of things and run the PC cycle for a full 120 mins.
-------------------- The mushroom speaks: '"I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life... How the hypercommunication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds"
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: Bugler Boy]
#22272232 - 09/22/15 12:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Will they still rattle like bb's if I simmer for 30 min? They get very hydrated during that point and fill up about 10 more jars that way.
I suppose I could just keep drying them until they rattle like that. Good advice. I will definitely pc for 120 min as well. Thanks!
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Bugler Boy
Cultivar


Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 998
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Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
#22273349 - 09/22/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DinkinFlicka84 said: Will they still rattle like bb's if I simmer for 30 min? They get very hydrated during that point and fill up about 10 more jars that way.
I suppose I could just keep drying them until they rattle like that. Good advice. I will definitely pc for 120 min as well. Thanks!
Yes, just don't explode grains. Go to the point when you pull a sauce spoon out of the pot you see 5 or less grains cracking/exploded. Don't go for a set time, just when what i just described happens... the actual boil time is pretty dependent on the soak time (less soak = more boil). Dry (fans work good) to the point you can take a handful and turn it upside down and nothing sticks to you. Load jars and PC. Prepping grain is pretty simple
-------------------- The mushroom speaks: '"I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life... How the hypercommunication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds"
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: Bugler Boy]
#22273701 - 09/22/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It may seem simple when you describe it that way, but if you watch RR's video to perfect grain spawn, it doesn't say a lot of that stuff. He says simmer for 10 minutes and that's it. When simmering for much longer gets your grains really hydrated and fat from the intake of water.
He says to do the tissue paper test and see if there is any left on the paper. But really, if you want them to not stick at all to the jar inside, then that's a different level of drying. I agree with everything you've said and it makes complete sense. The problem with a lot of the teks I read, they may give you the right instruction, but they don't tell you when you've done something wrong and how to tell.
Like when someone says "if you get to the rail road tracks, you've gone too far." Well, they should to the same for their teks so that it's full proof.
Should I keep my bulk sub also more on the dry side? Should I still dunk my grains before spawning to bulk? I was dunking them for 20 minutes before spawning my jars to bulk.
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: Bugler Boy]
#22276835 - 09/22/15 10:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was rereading what you were saying about having no grains stick to my hand wen I turn it upside down...At first I thought you meant turning the jar upside down. Which would work just as well, if not a little better because my hand has oils and some micro-sticky stuff on it that may make the WBS stick to my hand.
The issue I have with that is the last 2 grows I had, the WBS fell right off my hand, always dry to the touch. Despite these efforts, I still got the little wet spots on my grain that wouldn't colonize and smelled sweet and rotten.
Could it be that the inside of my grains is too hydrated? Swollen and fat with water? Only a few burst kernels.
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Bugler Boy
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Registered: 09/19/11
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
#22277517 - 09/23/15 05:55 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DinkinFlicka84 said: I was rereading what you were saying about having no grains stick to my hand wen I turn it upside down...At first I thought you meant turning the jar upside down. Which would work just as well, if not a little better because my hand has oils and some micro-sticky stuff on it that may make the WBS stick to my hand.
The issue I have with that is the last 2 grows I had, the WBS fell right off my hand, always dry to the touch. Despite these efforts, I still got the little wet spots on my grain that wouldn't colonize and smelled sweet and rotten.
Could it be that the inside of my grains is too hydrated? Swollen and fat with water? Only a few burst kernels.
I've washed my hands enough times by the time that I'm feeling the grains that there isn't any residue on there but yes putting them in a jar to test would work, its just a pain if it isn't dry enough and they start sticking to the sides. Can also use a paper towel and flip that upside down if you don't want to use your hands.
When you're doing the boil, take a little bit of un soaked WBS straight from the bag and put it in a little container and grab a couple out of the pot here and there to compare... when the grains are twice the size as the unsoaked then they are properly hydrated. You should be able to put your nail through it and cut it in half without it going to mush, the very center will probably look dry still but thats okay, the PC run will get the centers.
Edited by Bugler Boy (09/23/15 06:03 AM)
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: Clone: Agar to WBS, these 2 jars good for G2G??? [Re: Bugler Boy]
#22278223 - 09/23/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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All great advice. I just soaked my WBS last night for 6 hours, then simmered over 20 minutes as I watched (the whole time) for 5 burst seed, which I did and then I shook in colander, then I lay the seeds on towels with multiple mini-fans for about 4 hours. I made sure they didn't even feel cool when I ran my hands over them as they would feel cool to the touch because of the slight dampness.
They definitely rattled in the jar. When I did the jar test, I turned it upside down and only 2 or 3 tiny millet pieces, not even full millet grains, stuck. So, I'm feeling fairly good about this run. I just hate that a month ago, I was doing really well and had almost no contams whatsoever.
Problem now is I used my last and amazing amaaozonian stait
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