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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 734
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state?
#22262940 - 09/20/15 12:06 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have seen/experienced a lot but cannot say I have any reason to believe it was anything outside my own mind
I will elaborate more, but I want to see what everyone thinks from the title
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
Edited by glimpee (09/20/15 12:06 AM)
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impatientguy
Ganjalf a very mighty lab wizard



Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 5,054
Loc: USA
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: glimpee]
#22262979 - 09/20/15 12:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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That'd be crazy
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: glimpee]
#22263450 - 09/20/15 03:57 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
glimpee said: I have seen/experienced a lot but cannot say I have any reason to believe it was anything outside my own mind
What a great sentence. So if there is nothing that exists outside of ones mind, what are the ramifications of that?
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Chirox
seeker
Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 97
Last seen: 6 years, 24 days
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: PocketLady]
#22264415 - 09/20/15 11:41 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Had a cool dream this morning. I was sleeping on my right side. I felt like I had opened my left eye and was looking out. I saw a floating apparition, and felt like my bed was being picked up and hovering. Brain was freaking out, saying please stop, etc. I felt like I was in a subconscious aspect while my conscious ego was shut off sleeping. I closed my eye, and "woke up" to write it down. I had a false awakening. I must have reconnected something in my brain, because now I felt like I could truly dream.
I was in a void of darkness, and all around my the motion of my awareness was causing shimmers in the dark and lighting possible constructs that my mind could create or experience. Like I was in the matrix seeing it as a construct. I then saw a light and heard music. The darkness started to part with the apparition of a man and woman dancing. Seemed like I had achieved some level of harmony in my mind. When I tried to grasp the illusion it all collapsed and I woke up. I went out to use the bathroom, and realized I had another false awakening. I then got up to go. Fun times...
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: PocketLady]
#22265705 - 09/20/15 04:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PocketLady said:
Quote:
glimpee said: I have seen/experienced a lot but cannot say I have any reason to believe it was anything outside my own mind
What a great sentence. So if there is nothing that exists outside of ones mind, what are the ramifications of that?
Well surely that would mean that one could do whatever one chooses?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#22269965 - 09/21/15 03:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah I guess that's true. Like lucid dreams, although unfortunately I think there are some limitations on our current physical reality. Not as many as we are lead to believe though.
But if there is nothing that exists outside of mind, then maybe someone or something is dreaming the dreamer.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
Edited by PocketLady (09/21/15 03:14 PM)
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: PocketLady]
#22270504 - 09/21/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's a wild thought to think we are the subject of a dream and not the dreamer itself. Surrender. Surrender. Surrender.
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: cez]
#22276581 - 09/22/15 09:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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erasing. . . the three paragraphs I wrote. . poem instead:
sometimes being awake is the thing to go for, other times, summer day in the shade, i think this world is a dream, and i would like to go to sleep to wake up.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 734
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: Chirox]
#22296804 - 09/27/15 01:16 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chirox said: Had a cool dream this morning. I was sleeping on my right side. I felt like I had opened my left eye and was looking out. I saw a floating apparition, and felt like my bed was being picked up and hovering. Brain was freaking out, saying please stop, etc. I felt like I was in a subconscious aspect while my conscious ego was shut off sleeping. I closed my eye, and "woke up" to write it down. I had a false awakening. I must have reconnected something in my brain, because now I felt like I could truly dream.
I was in a void of darkness, and all around my the motion of my awareness was causing shimmers in the dark and lighting possible constructs that my mind could create or experience. Like I was in the matrix seeing it as a construct. I then saw a light and heard music. The darkness started to part with the apparition of a man and woman dancing. Seemed like I had achieved some level of harmony in my mind. When I tried to grasp the illusion it all collapsed and I woke up. I went out to use the bathroom, and realized I had another false awakening. I then got up to go. Fun times...
I have had two false awakenings. They were absolutely insane. I realized I stop being. I experienced it a third time but now I know its not ascension - at least not to anything past the self. My experience were a looooooooooot more intense tho I think (not to be a dick or whatever I just dont wanna elaborate)
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 734
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: PocketLady]
#22296813 - 09/27/15 01:20 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PocketLady said: Yeah I guess that's true. Like lucid dreams, although unfortunately I think there are some limitations on our current physical reality. Not as many as we are lead to believe though.
But if there is nothing that exists outside of mind, then maybe someone or something is dreaming the dreamer.
Here are some of my biggest theories.
Reality (which is past this plane) starts with the collective conscious. That conscious dreams and splits into different people, entities, ideas, and messages. One of those people dies or something, they become 4th dimensional and create a universe in their mind - that exists infinitely but only in the few minutes that person dies. The universe is 4th dimensional (at least) but people might only experience it in 3 dimensions within. And each person is part of the greater consciousness.
After years of being in a constant state - and being told this is all there is - it becomes really hard to even imagine "waking up." During a 15 minute dream we are convinced it's reality.
I think when we die - we just go into another universe. It's all internal though. We are alone - peerless, but we convince ourselves otherwise.
I had an experience where all that went away and I just understood it. But at the same time I likely just created that experience and convinced myself I understood it because the information came instantly and was triggered as truth.
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 734
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: once in a lifetime]
#22296814 - 09/27/15 01:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
once in a lifetime said: erasing. . . the three paragraphs I wrote. . poem instead:
sometimes being awake is the thing to go for, other times, summer day in the shade, i think this world is a dream, and i would like to go to sleep to wake up.
Last message was for you too
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
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Higher Love
Envisioneer



Registered: 09/24/15
Posts: 384
Loc: PNW
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: glimpee] 1
#22296834 - 09/27/15 01:31 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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One day, as he slept in a cave, he dreamed that he saw his own body sleeping. He came out of the cave on the night of a new moon. The sky was clear, and he could see millions of stars. Then something happened inside of him that transformed his life forever. He looked at his hands, he felt his body, and he heard his own voice say. "I am made of light, I am made of stars." He looked at the stars again, and he realized that it's not the stars that create the light, but rather the light that creates the stars. "Everything is made of light," he said, "and the space in-between isn't empty." And he knew that everything that exists is one living being, and that light is the messenger of life, because it is alive and contains all
--------------------
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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 734
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: Higher Love]
#22297641 - 09/27/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Higher Love said: One day, as he slept in a cave, he dreamed that he saw his own body sleeping. He came out of the cave on the night of a new moon. The sky was clear, and he could see millions of stars. Then something happened inside of him that transformed his life forever. He looked at his hands, he felt his body, and he heard his own voice say. "I am made of light, I am made of stars." He looked at the stars again, and he realized that it's not the stars that create the light, but rather the light that creates the stars. "Everything is made of light," he said, "and the space in-between isn't empty." And he knew that everything that exists is one living being, and that light is the messenger of life, because it is alive and contains all
this resonates with me deeply
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: PocketLady]
#22304915 - 09/28/15 08:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The difficulty of your question lies in your sense of mind being your personal 'possession' as it were. Everything is mind, but not your mind or my mind. There are levels of mind that are wed to your sensory experience and that makes your perspective unique. There is your reasoning which had been colored by your unique life experiences. But sensory perception and ratiocination are universal mental processes which are NOT unique to you. Some of the unconscious is deemed personal, unique to your own suppressed/repressed material, but, if one understands the Jungian school, the unconscious expands to universal dimensions (the Collective Unconscious) in which we all participate (like fish in the sea) rather than something unique to individuals.
Since mind is not a substance, it does not have extension, duration or mass. Mind is not contained in brain matter, or reside anywhere at all. It is THE true mystery. Materialists want to treat mind (unconscious, conscious, superconscious) as an epiphenomenon of neurological processes. Clearly, some aspects of mind are dependent upon the integrity of the body, including the nervous system and all the other systems which are necessary to support normal neurological functioning, But there are paranormal, parapsychological, and mystical experiences which suggest that mind transcends any dependence upon the body. If that is the case, then mind may be the Ultimate Cause of all physical phenomena. That would be the mind of God, the Logos, as described by philosophers like the Neoplatonist Philo of Alexandria.
Since matter is mostly space, and the density of matter is a matter of relativity. Lead and Plutonium are dense, but the density of the Singularity whence the universe was born was of Infinite Density. In a nutshell, the entire universe is a product of the Divine Mind, and in that sense, every single aspect of Reality is a 'matter of mind.' This is what the 10 spheres on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life signify, various spheres of God's Mind transformed down to the bottom sphere which is physical matter (Malkuth) from which we take temporary existence. The 2nd sphere, Yesod, includes the astral planes of dream life. In fact the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th spheres form what is called 'the astral triangle,' and constitutes our lower human nature, which loses its convincing solidity as one becomes aware of higher spheres. Our dreams and the unconscious begins to partake of timelessness when compared to physical existence where linear time operates at the macro levels (though not necessarily at the micro quantum levels).
That being said, the higher spheres includes Tiphereth ('Beauty'), Geburah ('Judgement') and Chesed ('loving-kindness'). These 3 constitute the 'ethical triangle.' So, in response to the question of libertinism or nihilism where nothing 'matters' (because matter is mind), so why not do evil, at this level of mind, morality and ethics are of the very essence of Reality. Acting out evil on mammalian life (nefesh) doesn't happen when one is identified with the higher spheres of mind (ruach).
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/28/15 08:21 PM)
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#22308600 - 09/29/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well I think at this point it really is a semnatic question/how you view it. In my exploration of eastern spirituality, I have found that the line between "imagination" and "reality" often blurs. Meditation, yoga, breathing excercises, heavy psychedelic trips, acupunture, tonic herbs and lucid dreaming. All have really pushed and stretched my boundaries of what I believe is "real" and "magical"
But this is the way I look at it. An acupuncturist sticks needles into his/her patient and claims that she is realigning his "energies". A doctor says "electricity" passes through his patients neurons. One of these people is a scientist, and the other is essentially riding on metaphysics. Both are two different ways of viewing of the same thing
Native Americans believed that coffee was the fecal matter of the gods (Or something like that. feel free to fact check). If someone gave me a cup of black liquid and I felt energetic and clear afterwards, I would be tempted to call it "magic" or out of this world. But a pharmocologist knows better. And instead he gives this magic a name; "Adenosine antagonist". Who is correct?
Buddhists and I believe hindus as well discuss of alternative ways to view or process suffering. I can attest to the fact that I still suffer the same way I used to before I meditated daily. Its just "different". Easier to handle and less extreme. A lot of neuroscience studies are pointing this out about meditation and showing that indeed people who meditate daily process suffering differently
I am not sure if I am getting my point across clearly and succintly here so perhaps I will make it a little clearer; things that are potent and powerful ie meditation, yoga, lucid dreaming, even hypnosis, all seem "out of this world" and almost like magic. But eventually we have the science to prove these things as "real", measure them, and categorize them. We give their components a name and they start to no longer seem like magic, but merely just another aspect of this world.
Like I said; I am not sure if you are catching me here, but the things we used to call "magic" or "out of the ordinary" and revere in a god-like/spiritual sense we may or may not be able to scientifically quantify. Eventually we do, and its no longer magic, its just science. So when you ask if what you experience is merely a part or beyond you mind, I am not sure how the two are different. Really two ways of viewing the same thing
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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 734
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#22317013 - 10/01/15 12:26 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: The difficulty of your question lies in your sense of mind being your personal 'possession' as it were. Everything is mind, but not your mind or my mind. There are levels of mind that are wed to your sensory experience and that makes your perspective unique. There is your reasoning which had been colored by your unique life experiences. But sensory perception and ratiocination are universal mental processes which are NOT unique to you. Some of the unconscious is deemed personal, unique to your own suppressed/repressed material, but, if one understands the Jungian school, the unconscious expands to universal dimensions (the Collective Unconscious) in which we all participate (like fish in the sea) rather than something unique to individuals.
Since mind is not a substance, it does not have extension, duration or mass. Mind is not contained in brain matter, or reside anywhere at all. It is THE true mystery. Materialists want to treat mind (unconscious, conscious, superconscious) as an epiphenomenon of neurological processes. Clearly, some aspects of mind are dependent upon the integrity of the body, including the nervous system and all the other systems which are necessary to support normal neurological functioning, But there are paranormal, parapsychological, and mystical experiences which suggest that mind transcends any dependence upon the body. If that is the case, then mind may be the Ultimate Cause of all physical phenomena. That would be the mind of God, the Logos, as described by philosophers like the Neoplatonist Philo of Alexandria.
Since matter is mostly space, and the density of matter is a matter of relativity. Lead and Plutonium are dense, but the density of the Singularity whence the universe was born was of Infinite Density. In a nutshell, the entire universe is a product of the Divine Mind, and in that sense, every single aspect of Reality is a 'matter of mind.' This is what the 10 spheres on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life signify, various spheres of God's Mind transformed down to the bottom sphere which is physical matter (Malkuth) from which we take temporary existence. The 2nd sphere, Yesod, includes the astral planes of dream life. In fact the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th spheres form what is called 'the astral triangle,' and constitutes our lower human nature, which loses its convincing solidity as one becomes aware of higher spheres. Our dreams and the unconscious begins to partake of timelessness when compared to physical existence where linear time operates at the macro levels (though not necessarily at the micro quantum levels).
That being said, the higher spheres includes Tiphereth ('Beauty'), Geburah ('Judgement') and Chesed ('loving-kindness'). These 3 constitute the 'ethical triangle.' So, in response to the question of libertinism or nihilism where nothing 'matters' (because matter is mind), so why not do evil, at this level of mind, morality and ethics are of the very essence of Reality. Acting out evil on mammalian life (nefesh) doesn't happen when one is identified with the higher spheres of mind (ruach).
You say the mind is the great mystery but seem quite certain that part of our minds extends past ourselves.
How do you know? Have you personally explored and found evidence? This is my goal - but the tricky thing is, the mind will sometimes give you a message that you instantly believe to be true (generally spiritually) and we will just trust that.
So far I've had 3 reality breaking experiences. Mentally, I stop being. The organization of reality fades away. My entire mind works as one and I experience things that cannot connect to any memories or be described with human vocabulary.
Yet everything so far has been internal.
I thought I was ascending past reality - I knew it to be a fact, my first reality break. But it wasn't true.
It's too easy to think we know. To find confirmation bias within the mind.
Each personal mind can create in intricate detail that surpasses the reality we exist in. Our deep subconscious works completely out of our sight. When the mind is fully open and has no reference for reality - anything is possible - everything is possible - and the mind will tell you what is "true"
but the mind isn't always right.
so again I ask - not to belittle but to truly ask - have you personally explored or found personal evidence that the mind connects to anything past the self?
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 734
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: topdog82]
#22317022 - 10/01/15 12:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said: Well I think at this point it really is a semnatic question/how you view it. In my exploration of eastern spirituality, I have found that the line between "imagination" and "reality" often blurs. Meditation, yoga, breathing excercises, heavy psychedelic trips, acupunture, tonic herbs and lucid dreaming. All have really pushed and stretched my boundaries of what I believe is "real" and "magical"
But this is the way I look at it. An acupuncturist sticks needles into his/her patient and claims that she is realigning his "energies". A doctor says "electricity" passes through his patients neurons. One of these people is a scientist, and the other is essentially riding on metaphysics. Both are two different ways of viewing of the same thing
Native Americans believed that coffee was the fecal matter of the gods (Or something like that. feel free to fact check). If someone gave me a cup of black liquid and I felt energetic and clear afterwards, I would be tempted to call it "magic" or out of this world. But a pharmocologist knows better. And instead he gives this magic a name; "Adenosine antagonist". Who is correct?
Buddhists and I believe hindus as well discuss of alternative ways to view or process suffering. I can attest to the fact that I still suffer the same way I used to before I meditated daily. Its just "different". Easier to handle and less extreme. A lot of neuroscience studies are pointing this out about meditation and showing that indeed people who meditate daily process suffering differently
I am not sure if I am getting my point across clearly and succintly here so perhaps I will make it a little clearer; things that are potent and powerful ie meditation, yoga, lucid dreaming, even hypnosis, all seem "out of this world" and almost like magic. But eventually we have the science to prove these things as "real", measure them, and categorize them. We give their components a name and they start to no longer seem like magic, but merely just another aspect of this world.
Like I said; I am not sure if you are catching me here, but the things we used to call "magic" or "out of the ordinary" and revere in a god-like/spiritual sense we may or may not be able to scientifically quantify. Eventually we do, and its no longer magic, its just science. So when you ask if what you experience is merely a part or beyond you mind, I am not sure how the two are different. Really two ways of viewing the same thing
I 100% agree with you - infact I just responded to Markos with a similar idea
Its too easy to assume the indiscrible things the mind shows us is something magical or godly. But has anyone actually gotten any proof? I dont mean proof that can be used to convince others - I mean proof that is enough for one to truly know?
One of my goals is to find personal proof. A plan I have for this is to have and then master the out of body experience. Be able to trigger it whenever (as well as my reality breaking experiences.) From there I will try to learn to travel - perhaps see if the merkabah is real. If I can come in contact with something or find something that correlates with reality - I will begin to fill my desire
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: glimpee]
#22326593 - 10/03/15 12:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
glimpee said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: The difficulty of your question lies in your sense of mind being your personal 'possession' as it were. Everything is mind, but not your mind or my mind. There are levels of mind that are wed to your sensory experience and that makes your perspective unique. There is your reasoning which had been colored by your unique life experiences. But sensory perception and ratiocination are universal mental processes which are NOT unique to you. Some of the unconscious is deemed personal, unique to your own suppressed/repressed material, but, if one understands the Jungian school, the unconscious expands to universal dimensions (the Collective Unconscious) in which we all participate (like fish in the sea) rather than something unique to individuals.
Since mind is not a substance, it does not have extension, duration or mass. Mind is not contained in brain matter, or reside anywhere at all. It is THE true mystery. Materialists want to treat mind (unconscious, conscious, superconscious) as an epiphenomenon of neurological processes. Clearly, some aspects of mind are dependent upon the integrity of the body, including the nervous system and all the other systems which are necessary to support normal neurological functioning, But there are paranormal, parapsychological, and mystical experiences which suggest that mind transcends any dependence upon the body. If that is the case, then mind may be the Ultimate Cause of all physical phenomena. That would be the mind of God, the Logos, as described by philosophers like the Neoplatonist Philo of Alexandria.
Since matter is mostly space, and the density of matter is a matter of relativity. Lead and Plutonium are dense, but the density of the Singularity whence the universe was born was of Infinite Density. In a nutshell, the entire universe is a product of the Divine Mind, and in that sense, every single aspect of Reality is a 'matter of mind.' This is what the 10 spheres on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life signify, various spheres of God's Mind transformed down to the bottom sphere which is physical matter (Malkuth) from which we take temporary existence. The 2nd sphere, Yesod, includes the astral planes of dream life. In fact the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th spheres form what is called 'the astral triangle,' and constitutes our lower human nature, which loses its convincing solidity as one becomes aware of higher spheres. Our dreams and the unconscious begins to partake of timelessness when compared to physical existence where linear time operates at the macro levels (though not necessarily at the micro quantum levels).
That being said, the higher spheres includes Tiphereth ('Beauty'), Geburah ('Judgement') and Chesed ('loving-kindness'). These 3 constitute the 'ethical triangle.' So, in response to the question of libertinism or nihilism where nothing 'matters' (because matter is mind), so why not do evil, at this level of mind, morality and ethics are of the very essence of Reality. Acting out evil on mammalian life (nefesh) doesn't happen when one is identified with the higher spheres of mind (ruach).
You say the mind is the great mystery but seem quite certain that part of our minds extends past ourselves.
How do you know? Have you personally explored and found evidence? This is my goal - but the tricky thing is, the mind will sometimes give you a message that you instantly believe to be true (generally spiritually) and we will just trust that.
So far I've had 3 reality breaking experiences. Mentally, I stop being. The organization of reality fades away. My entire mind works as one and I experience things that cannot connect to any memories or be described with human vocabulary.
Yet everything so far has been internal.
I thought I was ascending past reality - I knew it to be a fact, my first reality break. But it wasn't true.
It's too easy to think we know. To find confirmation bias within the mind.
Each personal mind can create in intricate detail that surpasses the reality we exist in. Our deep subconscious works completely out of our sight. When the mind is fully open and has no reference for reality - anything is possible - everything is possible - and the mind will tell you what is "true"
but the mind isn't always right.
so again I ask - not to belittle but to truly ask - have you personally explored or found personal evidence that the mind connects to anything past the self?
Yes. December 1974. The moment lives in me even now. OM MANI PADME HUM. OM = dissolving self (Solve) into the Infinite. HUM = The Infinite indwelling the finite (Coagula). The Infinite is experienced, then the Infinite contracts to the Infinitesimal. The Absolute is a Jewel in the Lotus of the Heart. Solve et Coagula.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#22338067 - 10/05/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Can I ask further what the proof was to you? Because I also experienced infinity and all within - but I have nothing that convinces me that there was anything outside of my mind... meaning I already understood the psychological structures and I understand what happened to my mind - it completely opened and removed all barriers.
But it was all still me... so I'm curious as to what your experience was and what it meant to you
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: glimpee]
#22338527 - 10/05/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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The illusion of 'me' as pertaining to every and all conditioned identity vanished, and all that was, was the eternal "I AM" as "Unbearable Compassion" and a Self-Effulgent Plenum Void of Clear Light. Every reference to 'me' in my life is an atom of the Eternal "I AM" peeking into space-time from Eternity. My individual identity as a temporary 'wave' vanished and "I AM," Pure Identity stood Alone - All One - the Infinite Ocean was ultimately the true nature of 'me' (and, presumably of the entire universe), but the Ground of ('my') Being.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 734
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: What if spirituality is just enhanced creativity/a concious dream-state? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#22339118 - 10/05/15 11:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Im not sure if you're describing what you experienced or what I experienced, because the third time having it I finally understood that all structures of reality, including time, and structures of the self faded away. It happened with my roomate and I told him I no longer was, but I still could do... all experiences were wonderful..
But if you're talking about your own experiences - then I have to say that mine did not prove to me that there was anything beyond the mind - I no longer was but I didnt surpass my own mind... My mind created all I saw and I have no reason to beleive otherwise.
In fact - many things I saw and believed my first 2 times ended up false...
If they wern't false - you don't exist. I am god. I created all life.... My expereince wasn't quite so simple and I wasn't quite so blunt but I realized I could create reality
In fact I have images of people and voices telling me reality is broken... The third time it happened I had a flash of images and the last was a man shaking my had saying "youre losing your reality"
But I know the mind is capable of all of that... we just restrict it by enforcing its perceptions of this reality. I would have to raise a kid from birth to question it and also sculpt his ego to have someone experience this stuff from a very young age - but all of us can learn to remove the barriers and structures of the mind and access all it memories and creativity at the same time
Sorry if I misunderstood you
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
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