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OfflineVestigial_Brain
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Registered: 09/19/15
Posts: 4
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
First attempt. PF Tek failure, but still determined. Advice?
    #22262342 - 09/19/15 09:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hey there folks. So this is my first time attempting mushroom cultivation. My wife had some limited experience years ago, and as such she's been mostly managing the operation. We're starting to think at this point that our current batch of (7) BRF PF jars are all a lost cause. However before dumping, ordering a new syringe, and starting with a clean slate I wanted to see if anyone could pin point any obvious flaw in our process. My main, personal concern is the air flow.

Our jars are 2 parts Verm, 1 part BRF, and 1 part water. 1 inch dry Verm barrier on top. We did a stock pot boil for 100min with foil covers. We used micro-porous medical tape, latex gloves, and did fire/alcohol needle sterilization. Using a B+ strain and storing at 75 degrees F. Seems well laid out to me, but the outcome has been bleak.

They mostly look like this. A little bit of light-grey discoloration in the areas that were injected with spores. Then darker, dryer sections between. 
Picture #1

This here white spot showed up around day 16 and remains our most promising glimpse of mycelium. However it has looked exactly the same with no signs of spreading and this picture was taken this evening at day 24. One other jar has a tiny white spot, and the 5 other jars look hopeless. 
Picture #2

This last picture is to demonstrate my concern with the air-holes. We only had really tiny framing nails lying around and the wife said it should be fine so I hammered away. The holes were JUST big enough to fit the inoculation needle through. 4 holes/injection ports in each lid. Are we suffocating our cakes?
Picture #3

If we can see some areas where the substrate mix isn't quite touching or packed totally solid, is this an issue? Should we pack down hard before layering the dry verm on top? Any input or advice for a noob would be so greatly appreciated.


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InvisibleONE OZ SLUG
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Registered: 05/22/13
Posts: 17,839
Loc: TX
Re: First attempt. PF Tek failure, but still determined. Advice? [Re: Vestigial_Brain]
    #22262393 - 09/19/15 09:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Ditch the medical tape.  The 1 inch layer of dry verm is a good enough filter by itself.

Growth looks good in picture two.  It is possible that you have a slow growing strain.

The first picture just looks like wet substrate :shrug: is that area fuzzy at all and has it gotten bigger since you noticed it?  I would monitor it.

It looks like you are doing your procedures to a T, which is great.  My first real attempt at PF Tek five years ago I used the same exact measurements.  The only difference was that I had a pressure cooker and I found tyvek + tape restricted GE too much.


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OfflineYaMoonSun
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Registered: 10/23/14
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Loc: NY
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Re: First attempt. PF Tek failure, but still determined. Advice? [Re: Vestigial_Brain]
    #22262398 - 09/19/15 09:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Looks bacterial, maybe you're substrate is too moist? Just for the record, you are covering the jars in aluminum foil before steam sterilizing? Give it time and see how the mycelium progresses. If it's bacterial it'll avoid those areas.

Quote:

Should we pack down hard before layering the dry verm on top? Any input or advice for a noob would be so greatly appreciated.



I like to pack it genitally so the mycelium doesn't have to fight through the substrate, and then it's standard that you're supposed to wipe the lip of the jars before adding vermiculite.


Edited by YaMoonSun (09/19/15 09:59 PM)


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OfflinePabloSumgie
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Registered: 08/20/15
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Re: First attempt. PF Tek failure, but still determined. Advice? [Re: Vestigial_Brain]
    #22262411 - 09/19/15 09:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Everything sounded perfect untill the holes. Not so much the size but by the sounds of it you have a dry verm layer plus micropore tape  but I'm assuming you took the tinfoil off. IME the tape is useless really with the dry layer. I just use the dry layer and I put the foil back on loosly. I've heard of people just using the dry layer nothing else with success. As for packing it down no don't do that ever you want pockets of air and space for the mycelium to breath and spread. If you pack it it'll take forever. Before tossing everything just to see what happens open up the holes and let them breath. They may take off.


--------------------
Alright then, picture this if you will:
10 to 2 AM, X, Yogi DMT, and a box of Krispy Kremes, in my "need to know" post, just outside of Area 51.
Contemplating the whole "chosen people" thing with just a flaming stealth banana split the sky like one would hope but never really expect to see in a place like this.
Cutting right angle donuts on a dime and stopping right at my Birkenstocks, and me yelping...
Holy fucking shit!


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OfflineVestigial_Brain
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Registered: 09/19/15
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Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: First attempt. PF Tek failure, but still determined. Advice? [Re: YaMoonSun]
    #22262642 - 09/19/15 10:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yes the foil was on for the steaming, and taken off afterwards. And I wiped the lip with a dry paper towel before topping off with verm.

I'll go ahead and ditch the tape and see what happens.


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Invisiblewowimflabbergasted
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Re: First attempt. PF Tek failure, but still determined. Advice? [Re: Vestigial_Brain]
    #22262675 - 09/19/15 10:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Using fine verm is better for cakes.


--------------------
TempMail | TempPMs
My Guide | MJ Grows



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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: First attempt. PF Tek failure, but still determined. Advice? [Re: Vestigial_Brain]
    #22262718 - 09/19/15 10:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Tape and foil is to be used only during PC, can limit GE and trap moisture in your dry verm layer, allowing contams through
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
You're supposed to peel the foil off immediately after removing the jars from the PC.  Otherwise, it traps moisture which gets the verm damp, ruining it as a filter.  The biggest cause of contamination in brf jars is leaving the foil in place.
RR




--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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OfflineVestigial_Brain
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Registered: 09/19/15
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Re: First attempt. PF Tek failure, but still determined. Advice? [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
    #22262781 - 09/19/15 11:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wowimflabbergasted said:
Using fine verm is better for cakes.




Okay, see I wasn't sure if there were different size grains! But this was my first thought when we mixed our bowl of substrate. Looking down out our sub, and recalling the video with the guy's mix (you know that video)... I asked the wife, "is there a finer grain version of this stuff?"

Is there a brand you recommend? Most of my online browsing didn't have any labels specifying Fine vs Course.


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: First attempt. PF Tek failure, but still determined. Advice? [Re: Vestigial_Brain]
    #22262798 - 09/19/15 11:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The stuff from lowes is good, fine grade horticultural vermiculite


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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Offlinemushpunx
Fungus Punk
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Re: First attempt. PF Tek failure, but still determined. Advice? [Re: NDStepp84]
    #22263136 - 09/20/15 01:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Looks like you are on the right track!

When you say fire/alchohol sterilized the needle, did you flame the needle and then wipe or wipe and then flame? It's very important that you only flame sterilize the needle as the alchohol will contaminate it.

Its ok to wipe the needle with alchohol but you would have to flame sterilize it afterwards.


--------------------

Amateur Mycologists United
AMU Q&A


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OfflineAjahn Don
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Re: First attempt. PF Tek failure, but still determined. Advice? [Re: mushpunx]
    #22263644 - 09/20/15 07:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'd suspect the MS syringe. We had two fails before we got it right, mostly because the MS may have been cooked in transit. Sounds like you've done everything well enough to have some success. Try again with a new batch, even from a different vendor. Keep us updated, and good luck.


--------------------
"He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."


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OfflineBugler Boy
Cultivar


Registered: 09/19/11
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Re: First attempt. PF Tek failure, but still determined. Advice? [Re: Vestigial_Brain]
    #22263679 - 09/20/15 07:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Vestigial_Brain said:
If we can see some areas where the substrate mix isn't quite touching or packed totally solid, is this an issue? Should we pack down hard before layering the dry verm on top? Any input or advice for a noob would be so greatly appreciated.




Most of this is already covered. But heres my take on it. Gas exchange is severely restricted or maybe even non-existant with the small holes + tape. You're over 3 weeks in on a cake grow that you only steam sterilized, even if you haven't seen any mycelium growth you'd have probably seen a contaminate by now.

Trust the dry verm layer to do what its there for... be your filter, and don't add anything else. Open holes, and make them bigger. Wide enough where you could put two needles thru at once is good.

The texture of the verm doesn't matter so much as the way you put it into the jar. You want it very airy like it looks like you already have. Take a handful and let it run through your hands like sand into the jar until its up to the threads then bang it on the counter a few times lightly and top it off then do the dry verm.


--------------------
The mushroom speaks: '"I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life... How the hypercommunication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds"


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