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Invisibleafoaf
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let the pandering begin
    #2225670 - 01/07/04 12:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=us&q=bush+%2B+illegal+%2B+keep+%2B+jobs&btnG=Search+News

here's the cnn bit:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/07/bush.immigration/

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush on Wednesday will outline an immigration reform proposal that would allow workers who are in the United States illegally to come forward and join a new temporary worker program, administration officials said.

Those now-illegal immigrants could then apply for permanent residence in the United States, although those in the temporary worker program would get no preference over other "Green Card" applicants from foreign countries, the officials said.

Administration officials said the measure was designed largely for economic reasons -- to match "willing workers with willing employers," as administration officials put it Tuesday night in advance of the president's announcement.

The officials said the employers would have to show they cannot find U.S. citizens to fill their jobs.

Allowing those who illegally entered the United States to come forward and keep their jobs is the most controversial aspect of the president's initiative, which will be presented as a statement of goals and principles and not a detailed piece of legislation.

But the U.S. officials said one of the president's goals was to "promote compassion" and get the Congress and the country to "understand the broken system" that now includes an estimated 8 million "undocumented" or illegal immigrants in the United States.

The officials said benefits of getting undocumented workers to come forward include bringing these workers into the tax system and bringing them "out of the shadows," as one official put it, and guaranteeing them wage and employment rights now enjoyed by those working legally in the United States.

Here are some highlights of the president's initiative, according to several senior administration officials.

? The new temporary worker program. It would include a temporary visa for three years, and Bush will call for Congress to allow one renewal -- so a six-year total for a temporary visa. Officials said they were open to allowing additional terms, subject to congressional debate and negotiation.

? This program would be open to prospective immigrants, but also to illegal immigrants in the United States, so long as these undocumented individuals could prove they were working in the United States as of the date the new policy becomes law. Officials say that requirement -- having a job at the date of the new policy -- would discourage a flood of new illegal immigration.

? Those who qualify as new "legal temporary workers" can apply for permanent residency, or Green Cards, under existing laws but would not receive any favorable treatment. The administration will, however, urge Congress to increase the current annual limit of issuing 140,000 Green Cards a year. The officials said how much of an expansion will be determined based on negotiations with Congress.

Officials reject the notion that the new program amounts to amnesty for illegal immigrants because they say there is no guarantee those who join the new temporary worker program would qualify for Green Cards, they would have no advantages if they do apply, and they would be expected to return to their country of birth when their temporary visa expired.

The new program, like other temporary visa programs, would be administered by the Department of Homeland Security in coordination with the Department of Labor and other government departments and agencies.

The White House initiative is modeled after several pending proposals in Congress.

Arizona Republican Rep. Jim Kolbe, for example, has called for a temporary worker program if employers first posted jobs on the Internet for 14 days to give U.S. citizens first crack at the positions.

It also tracks many proposals advocated by Democrats, who suspect that Bush's true goal is to increase the 35 percent of the Hispanic vote he won in the 2000 presidential election by promoting immigration reform as his first major new policy initiative of the 2004 re-election year.

"I certainly hope the administration's long-awaited re-involvement in this fundamental debate is genuine, and not because of election year conversion," Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Ted Kennedy said in a statement Tuesday. "The immigration status quo is out-dated, unjust and unacceptable."

"At any time in recent months, a nod from the administration could have brought immediate enactment of two important long-stalled immigration bills with broad bipartisan support in Congress -- the AgJobs Bill, to reach a fair resolution of the controversy and work conditions over jobs in the agriculture industry, and the bill granting permanent residence to undocumented immigrant children who complete high school and go to college or join the military," Kennedy added.


Commuters walk back to Juarez through the Bridge of the Americas port of entry in El Paso, Texas.
Among the president's allies in the debate is the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which backs the White House assertion that there is an "economic need" for new workers.

Randel Johnson, a chamber vice president who deals with immigration issues, said in an interview with CNN Tuesday that including workers who illegally entered the United States is perhaps controversial, but in his view, necessary.

"The reality of it is we are not going to deport all these people," Johnson said. "So we have to come up with something to deal with the situation. Or we can continue to put our head in the sand."

But Colorado Republican Rep. Thomas Tancredo is among the congressional conservatives who promise to fight provisions they view as rewarding lawbreakers.

"People who are here illegally -- they need to be deported," Tancredo told CNN. "People who hire them need to be fined. If they keep doing it they need to be sent to jail, It's against the law."

Quote:


I wonder if they'll really let them keep their jobs when they come forward
or if they'll just incarcerate and deport them like they did all the a-rabs.





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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: let the pandering begin [Re: afoaf]
    #2225708 - 01/07/04 01:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Translated into English:

1. The President wants to kiss ass for the Hispanic vote.

2. Because he wants to kiss ass for the Hispanic vote, he can't
actually be tough on border enforcement.

3. Because he can't be tough on border enforcement, illegals will
continue to get in.

4. If illegals are going to be here anyway, we might as well allow
them to work in the shitty jobs that Americans don't want to do.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: let the pandering begin [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2225743 - 01/07/04 01:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


My final point about federalism and immigration policy is very
important but has not been mentioned. A large and systematic mismatch
exists between the revenues that immigrants generate for
government and the expenditures that governments make on behalf
of immigrants. Because of their economic productivity, immigrants
generate vast federal tax revenues in the form of payroll and
income taxes. Very little of that revenue is returned to the states for
purposes of serving immigrants, yet it is the states that incur almost
all of the costs that immigrants impose in the form of expenditures
for public education, health care, criminal justice, and other public
services. This arrangement is unjust to those states, like California
and New York, with large immigrant populations. Congress has
never really remedied this fiscal mismatch. To do so would require
substantial funding-streams from the federal government to those
states that incur large immigration-related costs. I am concerned
less with welfare benefits, which have declined significantly since
1996, than with the costs that undocumented immigrants, whom
the federal government ought to be barring and removing from the
United States because of their illegal status, impose on states and
localities. Since the federal government has long assumed responsibility
for controlling borders and enforcing immigration laws, it
should reimburse states and localities for the expenditures occasioned
by its own failure. Remedying this fiscal mismatch would
greatly improve the services available to immigrants in the communities
where they live.





source: http://www.nyu.edu/pubs/annualsurvey/archive/58_3_387.pdf

I've heard this idea bounced around before...usually in left-leaning
pubs, but I've also heard the opposite...

that illegal immigrants generate more revenue for the government
and state than either wind up having to expend on illegal immigrants.

I'd like to find a nice non-partisan discussion with facts regarding this
because their seems to be the far reaching assumption that illegals
are a dire drain on resources.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: let the pandering begin [Re: afoaf]
    #2226279 - 01/07/04 05:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

GOD DAMN IT! FUCK!!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: let the pandering begin [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2226287 - 01/07/04 05:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Wheres your compassion?! :lol:


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: let the pandering begin [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2226329 - 01/07/04 05:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I was anxiously awaiting your thoughts on this matter...

thanks for not letting me down! :grin:


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: let the pandering begin [Re: afoaf]
    #2226455 - 01/07/04 06:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

just be glad  you got the in depth responce... :wink:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: let the pandering begin [Re: afoaf]
    #2226532 - 01/07/04 06:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've been hearing about this since he first took office. That's the calmest statement I've been able to muster.

What a stupid fucking idea. Rewarding criminals.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,233
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 7 days, 15 hours
Re: let the pandering begin [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2226551 - 01/07/04 06:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Oh I dunno....seems like that's what this administration is all about. ***cough*Enron*cough*** :wink:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (01/07/04 06:48 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: let the pandering begin [Re: Rono]
    #2226564 - 01/07/04 06:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Enron was screwing people during the previous admin as well.

It would most likely have come to the same end had Gore been elected.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: let the pandering begin [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2226604 - 01/07/04 07:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thats even worse then!


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisiblethescientist
Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 788
Loc: Dade County
Re: let the pandering begin [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2226992 - 01/07/04 10:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

you have no more right to live in the US than any other person.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: let the pandering begin [Re: thescientist]
    #2227021 - 01/07/04 11:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

According to the laws of this country, whether you like them or not, I do.

Get over it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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