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InvisibleSwami
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Who you are (self-limiting definitions)
    #2225627 - 01/07/04 12:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This is sort a spin-off post on frog's ADHD in that it got me to thinking about how we define ourselves. While I joke a lot, this is a very important topic for ALL of us.

1. There is no such thing as "Who we are." We do NOT have fixed qualities; physical or otherwise.

2. We are a process, not a thing.

Here are some common self-limiting beliefs (self-talk):

a. I forget things easily because I have ADHD.

b. I look at food and I gain weight.

c. I am weak, uncoordinated, shy, clumsy, can't speak in front of people, am no good with women (or men), have no talent.

d. I can't do _____.

e. I don't want to be rich.

f. An infinite number of other things.

WE HAVE NO FIXED PARAMETERS.

Recently Mr. Mushrooms completely redefined his diet and physique and lifestyle in response to a possible life-threatening illness. A relative with a similar condition gave MM hundreds of reasons "why" he could do nothing about the condition.

I was weak and unathletic as a youth. Approaching the mid-century mark, I could keep up with most anybody here in a power hike because of training and a lack of belief that middle-age means weak and flabby. I recently trounced a youth on the racquetball court who announced to a friend, "Of course I lost to Swami, he is the club pro." He lost to me because he expected to and because I train my ass off.

Oscar Del La Hoya frequently got his ass kicked as a youth and went on to become one of the top boxers in history.

Chorus: "But Swami, those are just physical things."

True enough, but the same thing applies to other endeavors.

Once again, not to pick on Frog, but I hate the whole ADHD thing. I lived with a woman diagnosed with ADHD. She used it as an excuse for every failing and DID NOTHING to change. ADHD people have runaway thoughts and may never be like others (who is?), but can benefit greatly from meditation and awareness practice. Yes, they can learn to remember where they put their keys. IT IS NOT A FIXED CONDITION.

The most "spiritual" thing one can do is not to adopt a belief system about deities and angels and dream about the after-life, but TO WORK ON YOUR AREA OF GREATEST WEAKNESS. How many people go to church for decades and remain unchanged. If spirituality does not transform your life THEN IT IS WORTHLESS.

Someone recently commented to me that they could not do a certain activity because they had not done it before. I never heard such a ridiculous and self-limiting statement. EVERYONE HAS A FIRST TIME.

The next time you make a self-limiting statement, become aware of it and challenge it.

"I am no good speaking in front of people. I am too nervous."

This statement declares that you have fixed limitations. Change to:

"I am uncomfortable speaking in front of people, but with study and practice could learn to overcome this fear."

Fear of material wealth is another area that is a total falsehood. Money (like any power) only makes you more of what you already are. If you are generous and giving, think of the "miracles" that you could create with enormous wealth. We think that because certain sages were poor (Jesus, Ghandi, Mother Theresa, various monks and yogis) that that is the way to go. Prosperity and spirituality are far from mutually exclusive.

How do YOU define yourself in a limiting way and how can you change your thoughts?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Swami]
    #2225712 - 01/07/04 01:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

looks like we agree on this one, SWAMI


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2225733 - 01/07/04 01:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'll have to agree.

Its been widely said, and agreed on upon by many, that our consciousness is our only limiting factor.


I am a religious man, therefore I truly believe humans are designed to create, or to become our own Gods.

our consciousness, which can also be changed by ourselves, is our only limiting factor in what and who we are.


Its one of the benfits of psychedelics, in which you observe and break down all of your conscious and subconscious boundaries (although the outcome has always been temporary in my case).


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Offlinedaba
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Swami]
    #2225809 - 01/07/04 01:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That was an excellent post Swami.

Recently I have been trying to better myself. I am not too atheletic, so I will start with that. It is more like the fear of embarassment or ridicule that discourages people from strengthening their weaknesses.


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Fold for The Shroomery!


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Swami]
    #2225815 - 01/07/04 01:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well said mang!


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Swami]
    #2225859 - 01/07/04 01:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I agree with you on this, and I constantly challenge myself to do things that I am afraid to do, or to do things that I think might not be successful.

To motivate myself to do something that I am afraid to do, I ask myself, "When I'm 90, will I be sitting in my rocking chair, having regrets about what I failed to do out of fear?" That scares me more than the thing I face of which I may be currently afraid.

Becoming a lawyer scared the crap out of me. I went to do an internship for my landlord before I went to law school because of my fear. He left me in the library, to get familiar with the books, and I went behind a row of books and put my head against them, trying not to cry, because I was so afraid.

I go into court almost every day, sometimes two or three times a day, and it's a blast. I can't believe that at one time I was afraid of becoming a lawyer, because I didn't think I was smart enough.

But I disagree with you in one respect, with regard to ADHD, or any limiting behavior. Not all are "self" limiting, although I do agree that there are people who blame everything on ADHD.

It doesn't matter how much I promise myself to pay more attention to my car keys, I continue to lock them in my car. Rather than beat myself up for not doing better to remember to take them out of the car before I lock it, I adjust. I have given a key to all my friends and even my ex, and I have a "hide-a-key" in my wheel well.

Sometimes there are behaviors that we can't change.

However, I can recognize behaviors that I can change, such as being late. ADDers are usually late for everything. I was able to change that, although sometimes I am still late. But it's not as bad as it used to be.

I think we should all challenge ourselves to be better, especially in areas that we think we can't change. But it is also good to recognize something that you really can't change, and then figure out a way to work around it, rather than just shrug your shoulders over it.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Frog]
    #2225890 - 01/07/04 01:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sometimes there are behaviors that we can't change.

I think it great that you (and others) have overcome obstacles and fears and I applaud you all for that.

I woud like to know what behaviors that you think are impossible to overcome and why?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Swami]
    #2225913 - 01/07/04 02:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Locking my keys in the car.    :grin:

Honestly, I try not to do it, and I do it all the time.  Just yesterday, I locked my door and slammed it, before realizing I left my keys in the ignition with the car still running!  That was a new twist, for me, on locking the keys in the car.  Luckily, I left the passenger door open.

I think the reason I can't seem to remember is I am usually thinking about other things, thinking too fast, too much, and I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing.  I've tried to make myself slow down and pay attention, but I forget mostly. 

If you think of something I could do to stop locking my keys in the car, I would bear all future swamis for you, even though I was about to retire my uterus.

What else?  Hmmm.  There are other things, but nothing that I feel is a huge impediment in my life, and I'm working on those things.  I'd say for me, the biggest thing is the stupid car keys.  My nemesis.  (Sp?)


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Frog]
    #2225942 - 01/07/04 02:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That can EASILY be changed and is far from impossible. You need to practice meditation which will help slow down your thoughts.

In the short term you can practice by slowing down your speech. This will help you to train your racing thoughts.

This is some basic Zen awareness training. When getting into your car, forget going over your next court case in your head and what you have to do after work and... Say to yourself, "I am putting my keys in the ignition. I am starting the car. I am backing out of the driveway." etc. Sounds childish and simplistic, but it will work. When leaving your car, say the same types of things. "I am turning off the ignition. I am removing my keys from the ignition." This will help you stay focused in the NOW.

Stop telling yourself that it is impossible and that it is "just the way you are ". It is only "just the way you HAVE BEEN" and need not carry into the future.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Swami]
    #2225945 - 01/07/04 02:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you, master.

I guess a post-it on my dashboard saying "slow down" will help me to remember to slow down??? 

Seriously, I will give it a try, and I will look into meditation.  That keeps being thrown in front of me.  A sign, don't you know.    :wink:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Frog]
    #2225952 - 01/07/04 02:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

My consultation fee is peanuts compared to the hourly rate for lawyers. Please PM me for billing information.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Swami]
    #2226073 - 01/07/04 03:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think we are indeed a work in progress, but some things never change about a person. You can't work on your sense of humour, your favorite colour, your sexual orientation (you might be able to do that, not sure, haven't tried), your likelikhood of developing cancer or some mental disease, the way your mind works, etc.
There definately is a 'who' you are, although it's not as all-encompassing as most people would have you believe, and 'your' never changing traits is what it's made up of.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Swami]
    #2226101 - 01/07/04 04:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Another great post.  :thumbup:

Justin (you met him) is CONSTANTLY limiting himself by blaming everything on his "problem".  He's not so bad with locking his keys in the car, but the fucker can't hold a job (due ONLY to tardiness and no call/no shows).  Instead of moving on and changing his habits, he blames his "condition" and the cycle repeats.

He could use some of your advice.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Swami]
    #2226207 - 01/07/04 04:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I disagree. You are still forgetting that you are making these statements based on the assumption that your personality/genetics/whatever are the same as everyones. You may feel that it is within YOUR power to change anything you want (within reason), but that is directly connected to your own personality, which from my short experience here, suggests that you are quite confident (bordering on pompous) and you truly adore the way you view the world.

Until you live in each person's shoes-gaining their perspective, viewing the size of their emotional/physical wall first hand- you cannot make statements like these, but I have dealt with your type before/was your type before, and I know how your simplistic mind negotiates the world to justify it for yourself. There is a social psychological term for this justification of faults in the world, but I cannot remember it. It is easy to make these statements because you are you, viewing it from your perspective, and you want to justify to yourself that had it been you with the attention problem or weight problem, you would have beat that too.

In short, yes, many people are lazy and choose not to change, actually some even like complaining, and decline change because they enjoy that feeling of having it worse, but again, your overgeneralization is not a fair indictment, it is a justification for your own happiness/well being/success etc.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2226213 - 01/07/04 04:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Your height, favorite color or genetic predisposition are not self-limiting beliefs. Humour, can indeed, be developed.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2226244 - 01/07/04 04:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

...suggests that you are quite confident
Once I was a timid, fearful little mouse.

you cannot make statements like these
I can and already did!

and I know how your simplistic mind negotiates the world to justify it for yourself
oooh! You hurt 'em Swami's tender feewings.

you want to justify to yourself that had it been you with the attention problem or weight problem, you would have beat that too
Justify? Physics applies to everyone. Anyone in relatively good health can get in better shape.

What is your limitation that you believe impossible to overcome?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Swami]
    #2226307 - 01/07/04 05:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I do not consider them limitations, though I used to. I actually like them, best thing that ever happened to me. Had I fit in as a youngster, I probably would not have experienced some great things, and gotten the chance to perceive things the way I do now

Anyone in relatively good health can get in better shape.

That is a tad lighter than your initial post; yes, anybody in decent health can loose ten pounds.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2226330 - 01/07/04 05:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

TrueBrode-

I understand your point completely. I typically hold the point of view that Swami has laid out here, however I also often consider your position. While your point is significant, I have considerable hard evidence that people CAN change. I have two prime examples that I'm willing to share with the good people of S&P...

1. My good friend "Dan". In his early twenties (he's 30 now), he was diagnosed with schizophrenia. After a serious amount of self-exploration (some of it, he says, involved LSD), he was literally able to cure himself (he refused to be medicated). Now, he's near the top of a department at a major University, has two undergraduate degrees, working on a Master's degree, and he's fucking brilliant otherwise. (I'd give more information on him, but it's too specific)

2. Me. Throughout my childhood and up until a handful of psychedelic experiences, I was obsessive-compulsive. Have you seen the movie "As Good As It Gets"? Well, I was AT LEAST that bad with stepping on cracks, among other things. I was never formally diagnosed, as part of my problem was that I was obsessed with people finding out about my quirks (apparently I was damn good at concealing it). Though I had been battling my problem for years, a mind-altering drug allowed me to gain a different perspective on the matter.

These are the best examples of overcoming mental "illness". Though I admit that it is unlikely that every person with such problems can overcome them, it IS possible.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2226356 - 01/07/04 05:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You mean I don't hafta be an over-bearing prick? *Checks human genome chart again*


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Re: Who you are (self-limiting definitions) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2226366 - 01/07/04 05:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Though I admit that it is unlikely that every person with such problems can overcome them, it IS possible.

That is sort of what I was saying.

Are those that cannot cure their problem even capable then? Does capability imply the ability, beyond semantics here I mean. Does the subjective whole dictate a situation in which none can ever judge the possiblity/ability, I think so.


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