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Invisibleambull01
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Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 3
Outdoor vs Indoor?
    #22255963 - 09/18/15 12:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well I'm about to start growing with PF Tek. I've researched the method/procedures for about two weeks now. My spores should arrive today, bought all the necessary supplies, and having everything planned out. Only thing I need now is the container to make the shotgun terrarium. Now to my question.

I've read over and over again about contaminants is the worse enemy to a grower. Why is contaminants so common with home growing when you could theoretically pick wild shrooms? I would think the wild shrooms would be nearly impossible to find contaminant free since it's in less controlled environment.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Outdoor vs Indoor? [Re: ambull01]
    #22256703 - 09/18/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

In nature, mushrooms generally have a niche. The mycelium for something like p. Cubensis grows a lot slower than your common airborne competitors in a rich medium like brown rice or nutrient agar/broth but that isn't its natural habitat. I once thought that cows liked to trip, so they eat the mushrooms and digest the spores which end up already in their poop so they can grow :V

Well, truffles work that way anyway -- the spores are carried in mole feces and come out underground. Just an example, but generally there is a niche and I'm sure it has to do with how the fungi fruits as well and this specificity is much of what makes them hard to grow. Morels, for example, will not grow without first burning or charring the wood, and they often fruit after forest fires in the wild.

edit: i was reading a patent and it seems they will grow from, sclerotia as well

Also, once the mycelium has colonised and taken hold of its substrate, it has ways of fighting off contaminants. At that point, as long as growing conditions are good the only thing you really need to worry about in that respect is an actual parasite like trichoderma that grows on the mycelium itself, killing it.


Edited by micro (09/24/15 10:05 AM)


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Invisibleambull01
Dumb noob
Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 3
Re: Outdoor vs Indoor? [Re: micro]
    #22262792 - 09/19/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Good info, thanks. I actually used the awesome search feature after I posted my question and found there have been many that wondered the same thing lol. Sorry, tried to do a search before I posted my question but couldn't find anything relevant. My search skills need work.

Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I've read some responses that people accepted but it still had me wondering. So the most important time for the shrooms is when the mycelium is growing/spreading. I guess that's the reason why such drastic precautions are done in the beginning then people are able to soak the cakes in a pot of water with a plate over it as weight. I'm hoping my first grow can be contaminant free.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Outdoor vs Indoor? [Re: ambull01]
    #22263061 - 09/20/15 12:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

That and fruiting is pretty important too, but you really just need to cold shock it and make sure you don't spray water directly onto the primordia (tiny mushroom babies) or they are likely t abort. Contamination isn't as large of a factor though, for sure.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Outdoor vs Indoor? [Re: micro]
    #22273763 - 09/22/15 12:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If you're doing cubes they don't need and will actually slow down growth by doing a cold shock. They're tropical. In the tropics they don't have a cold shock. They're not from the Pacific north west, where they fruit during the fall/spring. Cold shocking is a practice used by edibles. With cubes it is redundant. The main trigger will be fae/evaporation.

Also no one has ever gotten an abort from misting directly on the pins. That's just a myth. Still water on the caps will cause bacterial blotches under an environment with not enough fae to evaporate the water off the caps fast enough. But they can take rain in the wild.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Outdoor vs Indoor? [Re: Mad Season]
    #22277375 - 09/23/15 03:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
If you're doing cubes they don't need and will actually slow down growth by doing a cold shock. They're tropical. In the tropics they don't have a cold shock. They're not from the Pacific north west, where they fruit during the fall/spring. Cold shocking is a practice used by edibles. With cubes it is redundant. The main trigger will be fae/evaporation.

Also no one has ever gotten an abort from misting directly on the pins. That's just a myth. Still water on the caps will cause bacterial blotches under an environment with not enough fae to evaporate the water off the caps fast enough. But they can take rain in the wild.




Nobody said misting. Misting is fine.

Also, cold shocking always helped them to fruit faster for me.

You aren't going to noticeably slow growth sticking it in a fridge for a few hours.

It's already warm; you'll get it to like... fruiting temp


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Outdoor vs Indoor? [Re: micro]
    #22277573 - 09/23/15 06:41 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

micro said:
That and fruiting is pretty important too, but you really just need to cold shock it and make sure you don't spray water directly onto the primordia (tiny mushroom babies) or they are likely t abort. Contamination isn't as large of a factor though, for sure.



I was saying that spraying water onto them is fine. They can get rained on in the wild. No mushrooms have ever aborted from getting a direct misting. They abort because the substrate can't keep up with the pinset, or they're in a bad environment.

Idk how you can tell cold shocking does anything. I've done over 200 substrates in the past couple months. None of them fruited at the same times. Some in a day or 2. Some in a month. All in the same conditions. If anything I'd say nothing is really definitive. Especially with MS. IME they just pin when they're ready. How many times have you done a proper experiment with cold shocking?

It just seems like an unnecessary step.. I dont see people shoving monos in the fridge and things go just fine. Also this is what pussy fart says about fruiting:
Quote:

PussyFart said:
P. Cubensis are a tropical species. You could colonize at 70F and fruit at 80F with great results.



Also in the wild, you wait for a bunch of rain, and go out if the temps are above 80F. They are that tropical. Cubes will grow faster in hot temps. In cooler temps they may get dense, but it takes longer to grow. In the end both will work just fine. I'm just saying that proper fruiting is in fact warmer than colonization. For me I just fruit and colonize in the same temps, ~73F.


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How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
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Edited by Mad Season (09/23/15 09:03 AM)


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Outdoor vs Indoor? [Re: Mad Season]
    #22278423 - 09/23/15 11:49 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

no, misting is fine

spraying (like, with a spray bottle is what i meant) is not unless you just spray the sides

the bins i had at first (maybe 15"x8") i'd cold shock, then i moved to those huge plastic ones (maybe 4'x2', I'm guessing)

couldn't cold shock those and i remember they took longer

not to mention the stuff i left sitting out

or, maybe it was in my head... it makes sense though

a drop in temperature is one thing that causes them to fruit


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Outdoor vs Indoor? [Re: micro]
    #22278488 - 09/23/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

For oysters reishi wood lovers shiitake and everything else in the PNW I'd say I'd agree. But for cubes it's been shown that it's an unnecessary step. They will pin from evaporation. Cold temps aren't a thing to worry about imo. Just makes life a little bit harder lol. Personally I've noticed no differences. What seems to matter the most is proper surface hydration.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Outdoor vs Indoor? [Re: Mad Season]
    #22278522 - 09/23/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

well, yeah you don't need it

i've had them fruit in the bags; accidentally left them at 85F

took really long though

cubies are easy fruiters

i just did it to try and speed up fruiting after casing the stuff


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Outdoor vs Indoor? [Re: micro]
    #22279919 - 09/23/15 05:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't cold shock. I used to though and it definitely does trigger those fuckers to come out.
Strange, i know. But i live in a native cube region and have monitored the weather over the past decade. A cool spell in the summer followed by some rainy sweaty days is a great indication that there's gonna be a lot of mushrooms.


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