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LunarEclipse
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Negative Interest Rates
#22254625 - 09/18/15 06:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Somehow lost in all the Fed nonsense yesterday was the comment that one Fed member thinks negative interest rates were "warranted" (he should be the one getting a warrant) in the US.
Auntie Janet calmly stated that this wasn't considered in September, but that IS ON THE TABLE.
Will we still love the thieves giving us ZIRP when they just start taking money out of our accounts via Negative Interest Rates or worse, BAIL INS?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Ahab McBathsalts
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Makes it easier to pay the federal debt and those interest to china.
-------------------- "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."
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Lana
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I skimmed an article that mentioned how Yellen as 'mentioning' negative rates. I wish I would have saved the article. If anyone has a solid links, please post. I'm going to look now but negative rates....? I'm wondering how banks will hold?
Lana
-------------------- Myco Supply - Distributors of Mycological Products http://www.MycoSupply.com The Premiere Source for Mushroom Growing Supplies. Visit us online or call us toll free
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Yrat
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Re: Negative Interest Rates [Re: Lana]
#22256278 - 09/18/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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lots of articles on it all over zerohedge, skim back through to yesterday.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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Stonehenge
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Re: Negative Interest Rates [Re: Yrat]
#22257056 - 09/18/15 04:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I laughed every time I read about some talking head, some "expert" claiming rates were about to shoot up. That would help no one and would hurt everyone. Even obumble by now no doubt has been told many times that stuff will hit the fan if there are higher rates. Janet is following the script she was given. Rates may fall.
They are feverishly working on ways to weaken the dollar. I smell more rounds of qe in the works. Probably with a new name, liberals always think a new name for something changes reality. Since china devalued the yuan, every country has to follow suit or pay a price.
This is not a good time to have fixed dollar denominated investments like cd's, or money market. You have to have some liquidity but commodities are better. Even stocks might be better though I expect a major correction down is on the way. Be prepared to pounce as soon as it looks like there is blood on the floor and everyone is heading for the exits. Until then, I will keep my powder dry.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


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Quote:
Ahab McBathsalts said: Makes it easier to pay the federal debt and those interest to china.
If low rates make a bond worth more, imagine how much more a bond will be worth with more and more negative rates! People will be so happy to buy these valuable investments and hold them until maturity given the price increases.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Stonehenge
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Do negative rates mean borrowers get paid to borrow? Somehow I doubt it or there would be an explosion of debt. But, there is little incentive to save.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Yrat
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Re: Negative Interest Rates [Re: Stonehenge]
#22257943 - 09/18/15 08:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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well that's the entire idea... completely discourage savers, get everyone to take on more debt, and keep the whole phony show running a tad longer. ZIRP turning to NIRP is a sign that the can has finally been kicked off a cliff. that they're even attempting to float the idea to gauge public reaction is a huge tell for where things are headed.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Negative Interest Rates [Re: Stonehenge]
#22258073 - 09/18/15 08:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Do negative rates mean borrowers get paid to borrow? Somehow I doubt it or there would be an explosion of debt. But, there is little incentive to save.
The wet dream of the elite is a cashless society where you have to use them to transact any trade and they charge you to not only hold the money but pay them for all that work of thieving you. Think of it as an ATM fee but on steroids, and every day.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Stonehenge
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I do believe there is a trend, maybe even a drive toward not using cash for anything. This goes hand in hand with govt control over every aspect of our lives. If you never use cash they know every transaction you make and more. They know where your car goes, where your phone goes, and how you use them.
They won't pass a law someday making cash illegal, they just make it less and less convenient. They will force us to use a fingerprint or eye scan to buy things. Unless you want the chip implanted. Cash will be treated as some sort of old fashioned quaint ritual. Places will pop up that use no cash, only cards and stuff. I believe there are some like that now. It will be considered more expensive to handle cash and subject to robbery. Eventually it will be like looking for a pay phone. Some of our members have never seen one of those.
If you can't spend your cash then its no good except to turn in at a bank
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Negative Interest Rates [Re: Stonehenge]
#22259139 - 09/19/15 06:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, "they" in fact are planning on a cashless society, and by definition there would in fact then be no cash. The reasons are to charge you to make the transaction (and/or the merchant), and to charge negative interest rates just for having your money sitting in the account.
That's a fact, Jack.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Stonehenge
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No, there will still be cash, simply no one or only a very few will want to accept it. There is no law against pay phones, for example, but they are gone because of economics. They will tighten up reporting requirements for cash transactions, perhaps down to 2k or something. Everyone will get their eye scan or prints taken at a young age and use that to buy stuff. They do it now in some schools to get kids through the lunch line faster.
If no one can rob you of your cash, and if cell phones won't work for anyone but the owner, why bother to rob? All possessions will have chips in them so no point in stealing, they just come take it back. It will be sold to us as the solution to crime.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Negative Interest Rates [Re: Stonehenge]
#22263741 - 09/20/15 08:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: No, there will still be cash, simply no one or only a very few will want to accept it. There is no law against pay phones, for example, but they are gone because of economics. They will tighten up reporting requirements for cash transactions, perhaps down to 2k or something. Everyone will get their eye scan or prints taken at a young age and use that to buy stuff. They do it now in some schools to get kids through the lunch line faster.
If no one can rob you of your cash, and if cell phones won't work for anyone but the owner, why bother to rob? All possessions will have chips in them so no point in stealing, they just come take it back. It will be sold to us as the solution to crime.
Sure, there will still be cash just like there are still Confederate Notes sitting in someones collection.
Cashless doesn't mean "less cash". It means no cash.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Stonehenge
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You are dreaming, le. Cash will never be outlawed because for one thing it would cause a big backlash and for another thing there is no reason to do it. People tend to think in absolutes but in practice, few things are absolute.
Has silver and gold money been outlawed? No, you can still use it but you will be taking a big hit using it at face value. So gold and silver is no longer used but is still permitted. Same with physical money, it will never be outlawed though more restrictions will pop up.
As it is now, its more or less illegal to have over $10k in your possession. Because when you spend it they can call that a "structured" deposit or avoiding the reporting requirements in some way. If you spend any part of it they want you to turn it all in and make a report or at least a report on the part you spent or deposited. Its all bullshit.
You are also wrong about commodities continuing to go down in value. Time will tell.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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fivepointer
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Re: Negative Interest Rates [Re: Stonehenge]
#22265431 - 09/20/15 03:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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If negative rates get high enough it will be economic to pull physical cash from the bank and store it in a vault. So I guess they want a bank run?
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saenchai
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There's two ways to look at it imo. If you subscribe to the belief that this economic crash is a controlled demolition being manufactured in order to bring us into a more controlled society similar to how 9-11 did, then there isnt much more they can do than what they are doing go bring it about. Bank runs are very scary events. So scary that the panicking public might accept new and strange laws under the pretense of protecting themselves and their loved ones.
If you did not subscribe to that belief, you would be accusing the people who make the rules of such an astonishing degree of ineptitude that it would make very little sense. Either way it's bad news. Technically paying with cash is already illegal under the NDAA. It's not hard to see where they are going with this.
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Negative Interest Rates [Re: Stonehenge]
#22270270 - 09/21/15 04:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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You have been pushing gold and it being undervalued, and the idea of hyperinflation, all the way down for years now. Eventually you will be right, and gold will have bottomed, but I don't think it has, just yet.
Oil I will bet you will go down from here more than gold will, and that is a far more important commodity than gold. Gold is in fact barely a commodity so I won't include that in our "bet".
Some good points, this cashless society isn't for a while, but we are certainly heading in that direction.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Stonehenge
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I was pushing gold when it was around 1000 and even before that. I did my buying in the 400's and 500's for the most part. It peaked around 1900 and went back down, now is a great time to buy it. I never said it was a sure bet for short term. For long term it glitters.
>Oil I will bet you will go down from here more than gold will, and that is a far more important commodity than gold.
It may go down some more, but it will inevitably go back up and higher yet. People who buy up the oil shale leases for pennies on the dollar will make a killing. I'm still glad I have a fuel efficient car.
Don't cling to this idea of deflation so hard. Its an anomaly, the natural progression is inflation. During the great depression, we had deflation. And of course during this ongoing great recession, we have some, what is so strange about that? Overall prices have gone up but thankfully oil is down giving us some breathing room.
Paper gold is selling at the same price as real gold, pick up some real stuff, also silver and wait for the tide to come in.
Most of us know the world is racing to the bottom vis a vis currency values. Only fools believed the fed was about to raise rates. That alone will raise the value of all commodities.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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mycofanaticus



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Re: Negative Interest Rates [Re: Stonehenge]
#22522653 - 11/14/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: I was pushing gold when it was around 1000 and even before that. I did my buying in the 400's and 500's for the most part. It peaked around 1900 and went back down, now is a great time to buy it. I never said it was a sure bet for short term. For long term it glitters.
>Oil I will bet you will go down from here more than gold will, and that is a far more important commodity than gold.
It may go down some more, but it will inevitably go back up and higher yet. People who buy up the oil shale leases for pennies on the dollar will make a killing. I'm still glad I have a fuel efficient car.
Don't cling to this idea of deflation so hard. Its an anomaly, the natural progression is inflation. During the great depression, we had deflation. And of course during this ongoing great recession, we have some, what is so strange about that? Overall prices have gone up but thankfully oil is down giving us some breathing room.
Paper gold is selling at the same price as real gold, pick up some real stuff, also silver and wait for the tide to come in.
Most of us know the world is racing to the bottom vis a vis currency values. Only fools believed the fed was about to raise rates. That alone will raise the value of all commodities.
I agree with most of the above statement
Oil should be down much further than it is, the US is FLOODED with more oil than we can consume. Its a violation of FED law to export it, storing it costs money. Combine that with artificial inflation by traders and Obama's agenda; oil will never go down as much as it should. Even post Obama I doubt oil will ever go down like a normal commodity.
I'm all for alternative energy; if anyone is naive enough to think the technology isn't ready or it's just not affordable; read about technology from sources with no political affiliation. The reason its coming in drop size increments is their is far too much power and money generated from big oil.
It buys politicians on both sides. If I had any savings or excess earnings; Fuck even earning. I would be buying Gold regardless of the rate due to the way things are going.
Edited by mycofanaticus (11/14/15 02:20 PM)
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LunarEclipse
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Gold bugs are going to say keep buying all the way down and just about the time everyone gives up, maybe at 780 an ounce, it'll be a good time to step in and buy buy buy.
The Fed can play this anyway they want to, must be nice to either be able to raise rates, keep them the same, or go negative, all the time knowing in advance what you are going to do with big bets placed.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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