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OfflineThanatos10
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The answer lies within?
    #22253106 - 09/17/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I hear this come up often with meditation. But I would like to know what everyone's experience with this is? Did you find what you were looking for? Well I guess looking for isn't the term but did you discover something about yourself that you never knew?

It's just such a vague statement but I wanted to know other people's experience with it. Maybe just to give me a bit of hope you know.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22253171 - 09/17/15 08:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

My experience is that it doesn't lie within because the distinction we make between inner and outer is fallacious.

Traditionally spiritual teachers have told people to look within because as a whole, humanity has been looking outward constantly for thousands of years and ignoring what is within. Therefore it made perfect sense to tell people to look within.

However, always trying to look within can also become a trap because as I said, the distinction between within and without is not real in the way most people think it is. God is within us, but he is also outside us. He is everywhere. So you can't go looking for God is some specific place and expect to find him there.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #22253688 - 09/17/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I was not really referring to God in my statement.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22254072 - 09/17/15 11:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
I was not really referring to God in my statement.




You are god and so is everything and everyone else(god being the consciousness of infinity not the traditional magical dude in the clouds that likes being a dick.

What they mean by look in is "who is doing the looking."
Anytime you experience something negative or positive that causes emotions think who is having this experience? and really search for yourself in your mind.
You can do it right now think where am I and when am I? Really try to find the core of your consciousness.
If you're thinking your thoughts who is listening?
If you get amnesia who would you be? Who has a personality and memories to lose if that's all you are? Who are you when you dream?

If your brain is running wildly like it normally does when you're doing this you are thinking and not looking.
There should be a space or silent gap. Once you find this just keep expanding it.

The more you do it the more you'll notice when you leave the stillness. With a little bit of persistence you'll find yourself in this still space longer and longer. Then one day you will go about your boring mundane routine and stay in the blissful space all day long and it'll fly by. You'll be so amazed at the fact a few weeks ago you hating every second of your life.

Most people stop with mediation not realizing they can achieve a blissful stillness all day long! Self-inquiry is key. Accepting all your feelings and not labeling them good or bad, the same with people and everything else in your life.
Instead of why is this happening to me!? Make it this is just happening

Quote:

Most people confuse "self-knowledge" with knowledge of their conscious ego-personalities. Anyone who has any ego-consciousness at all takes it for granted that he knows himself.
But the ego knows only it's own contents, not the unconscious and it's contents. People measure their self-knowledge by what the average person in their social environment knows of himself, but not by the real psychic facts which are for the most part hidden from them.
In this respect the psyche behaves like the body, of whose physiological and anatomical structure the average person knows very little too.
Although he lives in it and with it , most of it is totally unknown to the layman, and special scientific knowledge is needed to acquaint consciousness with what is know of the body, not to speak of all that is not known, which also exists.





From the Katha Upanishad
Atman is the self the true self.
Quote:

He (the Atman), difficult to be seen, full of mystery,
the Ancient, primaeval one, concealed deep within,
He who, by yoga means of meditation on his self, comprehends Atman within him as God,
He leaves joy and sorrow far behind.




Quote:

Rise, awake!
Having obtained these boons, understand them!
Like the Razor's sharp edge is difficult to traverse,
The path to one's Self is difficult.





Good being like the highest self(love and compassion for all) and the dear being the ego(selfish and petty)
Quote:

Different is the good and different is the dear,
they both, having different aims, fetter you men;
He, who chooses for himself the good, comes to wellbeing,
he, who chooses the dear, loses the goal.

The good and the dear approach the man,
The wise man, pondering over both, distinguishes them;
The wise one chooses the good over the dear,
The fool, acquisitive and craving, chooses the dear.





Quote:

Know that the Atman is the rider in the chariot,
and the body is the chariot,
Know that the Buddhi (intelligence, ability to reason) is the charioteer,
and Manas (mind) is the reins.

The senses are called the horses,
the objects of the senses are their paths,
Formed out of the union of the Atman, the senses and the mind,
him they call the "enjoyer".




--------------------
It's all for the :lol:s


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Eggtimer]
    #22254888 - 09/18/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

For me the answer hasn't been revealed completely.  But it was high doses of psilocybe and inner visualization of alien craft above scanning the population that caused a crown and third eye opening.  I was immediately surrounded by entities and its as if some are stuck inside the matrix of biology, the body itself, and some fly free from place to place inhabiting people and wielding subtle or not so subtle forms of mind control over the individuals and groups.  They sounded like normal human voices then something like a black shadow form scrambled into my apartment and jumped in my body. 

It was as if I had ascended into another dimension of interaction...  Those of spirits which call themselves Baphomets then refer to themselves as angels.  The gist of what I was after, Truth, is that there are multiple types of beings involved in the affairs of human beings on earth that aren't human or biology but disembodied consciousness that are often parasitic.  They are like a reflection of culture and are combinations of consciousness but a whole population unto themselves. 

They are Collective entities that operate entire fields of varying energy signatures that interface with the brain and also they act from the inside trying to move through the body and into the sky.  They can entrance you and operate hallucinations to either scare you or to teach you.  And basically some people are not just human but partially operated by them without or with their knowledge either subtly or completely taken over.  Like drones operated by what seems alien or not human.  So the Truth revealed is that you are usually under some form of mind control and are host to an intelligence that has something to do with what people call God or the Kingdom of Heaven or this is all the antithesis to all that and is effectively an invasion by the trickster posing as God.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22255187 - 09/18/15 09:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Meditation is just a nice habit to get into.  If you want to learn patience and peace of mind, give yourself some time everyday to sit. :thumbup:


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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22256001 - 09/18/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I find that the answer is always there, waiting to be identified.

Calmness of mind helps me be more receptive to the intuition or "gut feeling" that signals the right answer for me. 

Meditating regularly helps me cut past my habitual mind bullshit, and live more clearly.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22257403 - 09/18/15 06:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
I was not really referring to God in my statement.




Then replace the word God in my post with Source, or Self or whatever you prefer to call it.

Or perhaps I should ask, what were you referring to? When people say to look within, it is assumed you are looking for something.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


Edited by Peyote Road (09/18/15 06:29 PM)


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #22257951 - 09/18/15 08:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

More like answers to the questions I have, like why I act the way I do, and what changed.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Invisiblechampinhom
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22258117 - 09/18/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
I hear this come up often with meditation. But I would like to know what everyone's experience with this is? Did you find what you were looking for? Well I guess looking for isn't the term but did you discover something about yourself that you never knew?

It's just such a vague statement but I wanted to know other people's experience with it. Maybe just to give me a bit of hope you know.




yes, meditation is great--depending of course what you mean by that word. If you mean repeating a mantram or concentrating on the third eye, watching the breath or some such exercise, then you are actually talking about concentration, not meditation. Learning to concentrate is good, but meditation is bigger than that.

Meditation is being with life as it does what it does. Watching thoughts, feelings, sensations, without trying to manipulate or guide anything. Just be still and watch and you will learn wonderful things.

One thing you may learn is that things just happen, including all your feelings, thoughts, decisions, sensations. No one brings them about. No one is responsible for them. I still remember the night this dawned on me. A huge wave of bliss flowed over me. It is by such bliss waves that you know you have actually seen something real and not merely talked yourself into thinking you have.I consider that realization the single most important event of my life.
Anyway, meditate that way and see what happens.


--------------------
My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said.

Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking.
Saul Bellow

“People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing

Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P.  Silocybin


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22258143 - 09/18/15 09:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Before you find any answers in life, you ought to make sure your brain is healthy and/or functioning properly.

Then at that point, you can proceed to be more sensitive and loving, and watch where it gets you. Try to have sensitivity to nature, try to be creative in conversation, empathise, listen to beautiful music that is inspired from the deepest wellsprings of human energies.

If you do this, you will find energies in yourself worth hanging on to and which will guide you.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: circastes]
    #22258351 - 09/18/15 10:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
Before you find any answers in life, you ought to make sure your brain is healthy and/or functioning properly.

Then at that point, you can proceed to be more sensitive and loving, and watch where it gets you. Try to have sensitivity to nature, try to be creative in conversation, empathise, listen to beautiful music that is inspired from the deepest wellsprings of human energies.

If you do this, you will find energies in yourself worth hanging on to and which will guide you.




The problem is that I have become dead to love, well maybe there are some ashes smoldering inside of me. I have reached a point where I don't really the the value in love, compassion, or caring about other people. Most days lately are just an emotional flatline with some spikes. The more I think about it the less I understand why people care what happens to other people, why they value love, and compassion as well. I don't know why I got this way, but I was hoping meditation would have answers.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22258692 - 09/19/15 12:16 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Instead of meditation, what about medication? :smirk:

You might be depressed / have a brain dysfunction of some kind.

I used to think life was a nightmare, not realising all the while life was beautiful and my brain was in tatters.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: circastes]
    #22258723 - 09/19/15 01:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think that's the case with me. I have been through the ringer with a few ideologies, viewpoints, and other things. But that's not something medication will fix.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22258858 - 09/19/15 02:42 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

circastes said:
Before you find any answers in life, you ought to make sure your brain is healthy and/or functioning properly.

Then at that point, you can proceed to be more sensitive and loving, and watch where it gets you. Try to have sensitivity to nature, try to be creative in conversation, empathise, listen to beautiful music that is inspired from the deepest wellsprings of human energies.

If you do this, you will find energies in yourself worth hanging on to and which will guide you.





The problem is that I have become dead to love, well maybe there are some ashes smoldering inside of me. I have reached a point where I don't really the the value in love, compassion, or caring about other people. Most days lately are just an emotional flatline with some spikes. The more I think about it the less I understand why people care what happens to other people, why they value love, and compassion as well. I don't know why I got this way, but I was hoping meditation would have answers.




I don't know but I think you're way of thought may be more appropriate for success and happiness in this world compared to that of love.  I was a sucker for believing in love and I am self-destructing and losing my will to continue with life. 

Maybe I was completely delusional and my way of life has been one big fraud, but I truly believed in love and thought I was living in love but for some time now I've been seeing nothing but darkness and there's a part of me that insists on not continuing, for I don't matter.  Nothing I do matters.  I'm here, existing in a world that is indifferent to my feelings and actions.  My path of selfless love was all lust and I don't know how to turn this ship around because my self has become rather stern and breaking from it is seemingly impossible.  At the end of the day, life with myself is miserable.  I try to fill this void with hobbies that grow and improve my personality and they help, but at the end of the day I'm left with myself and who I've become and as much as I believe in forgiveness, I can't seem to forgive myself.  There's a terrible amount of criticism upon myself in everything I do and I can only escape it temporarily.  The idea of love became huge in my head, but it also created a duality and this monster is overcoming me.

I am living on hope that it gets better for I know everything I experience is transient, but this mood has been rather stable and as positive, centered and detached from darkness as I try to be, it's becoming more apparent that I'm playing a losing hand.  A part of me knew it was a loser the whole time, but there was another part that thought somehow I can beat the dealer. 


We have no control.  The answer is not within but without, for that is where we were created and the conditions that created me left me a fool.

I would suggest to continue your inquiries, but never come to a solution.


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22259202 - 09/19/15 07:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If you want to know then stop playing games.


See it: Consciously notice you're running an unconscious pattern
See through it: Acknowledge the pattern's unskillfulness. The deeper you go the better, and DON"T DENY WHAT YOU FIND.
Be willing: Accept the possibility that you can be other than the way you are: this is the biggest part of your job.
Penetrate it: See it so completely that it begins to drop away by degrees or falls apart.


Quote:


Eyes watching in contemplation
Eyes watching eyes with hunger
Eyes watching eyes watching in obscene vertigo
Eyes watching eyes watching eyes in the alcoves of the golden door

firmly held by His Sons whose hearts are drunk with the liquor of deception. Faith in the Holy Retriever leaves nothing much but void, as His silent voice weakens nerves and sanity. Bleed, bleed the knuckles on the wall of captivity, covered with clumsy scribblings, emblems of deficiency, flightiness and vanity; smelling, dripping urine and lechery from the ground to the roof.

There were blind towers like careless arrows pointing towards the cold sky oppressing the mediocrity below, magnifying the greatness with the glare of a dead sun; the greatness of diaphanous monoliths erected on the land of grey idiocy; grey like the concrete vomited by the mouth of an insane god and a soil of stubborn dust. As above, so below, it's raining filth on dust, like stupidity over ignorance. In the dirty rain, the scum keeps on breeding. And the dead sun may disappear, opening new temples, setting the night on fire. And men will be restless, because then the constraint gets even stronger. And new faces will appear, even less worthy. Ignorant vagabonds aimlessly roaming in mystery towards a god they don't know.
Kirjath-Ra, here, there and elsewhere
Kirjath-Ra, here, temple of the madness above
Scum of the earth, unite and take over for you are the cherished stupid children of a god too great for you.

Filth upon greatness, like night upon the earth, the crust of aeons defacing the work of the righteous, the scabs of centuries waiting to be scratched out to unveil the dormant truth. Of this they are built, the labyrinths of sleepness anarchy, of greatness and filth, of scum and of saints running like rats, breeding like rats in the ashes of time and God.





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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Eggtimer]
    #22259219 - 09/19/15 07:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

"The Deeper You Go The Better, and Don't Deny What You Find."

In my ongoing research into the workings of the world, specifically big money and how it operates, I have found that only one thing really matters.  Follow the money, follow the power.  It's always about money and power.  Always. And of course evil but that ties into the power.

Most can't even begin to get a little ways down into this rabbit hole, it just plain won't work.  Their programming, their paradigm will simply not allow it.

This also becomes true on a personal level.  At some point is the digging worth it, can the truth really be accepted let alone truly understood?

Probably not.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22259430 - 09/19/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
This also becomes true on a personal level.  At some point is the digging worth it, can the truth really be accepted let alone truly understood?

Probably not.




Youre asking too many personal questions! :tongue:

Acceptance, perception, and even truth are mostly personal things.

How much digging can you do before you dig right past the truth, or into a labyrinth of unending tunnels?

IMO, there are questions that have answers and they are usually the most obvious. But there are also many questions you can jerk yourself off infinitely with.

:blowmybrainsout:

Tying this with the topic of meditation in the OP, noise reduction is essential to me. I can quite easily get carried away by daily life stresses such as the main ones you mention, money and the acquiring of money.

Lunar, Ive always loved your signature, and even quoted it to people :smile:

I propose: ______ is what you make it.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22259572 - 09/19/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
Instead of meditation, what about medication?




Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
I don't think that's the case with me.



Yeah, nice work there Thantos. Instead of thoroughly investigating all your options you hang around here whinging and moaning because you don't 'think' that's the case.

Guess what? It's all that 'thinking' that has left you in this horrible, unfeeling, shit spot that you're living in right now.

How about 'doing' for once?!?!


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22259592 - 09/19/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

circastes said:
Before you find any answers in life, you ought to make sure your brain is healthy and/or functioning properly.

Then at that point, you can proceed to be more sensitive and loving, and watch where it gets you. Try to have sensitivity to nature, try to be creative in conversation, empathise, listen to beautiful music that is inspired from the deepest wellsprings of human energies.

If you do this, you will find energies in yourself worth hanging on to and which will guide you.




The problem is that I have become dead to love, well maybe there are some ashes smoldering inside of me. I have reached a point where I don't really the the value in love, compassion, or caring about other people. Most days lately are just an emotional flatline with some spikes. The more I think about it the less I understand why people care what happens to other people, why they value love, and compassion as well. I don't know why I got this way, but I was hoping meditation would have answers.




I have the same problem. I remember when I was a child, I cared so much about my family and my friends. I loved them deeply with real feelings of love.

Now I never feel that way anymore. I seldom feel any strong emotions about other people. I still care for other people and want them to be well and healthy, but the real emotions are gone except for a few painful glimpses here and there.

Nothing really seems to matter anymore, because no matter what happens I always just end up alone with myself. I see parents who seem to care so much about their kids. Sometimes I wonder if I had a kid and it died, would I really care that much or would I just move on?


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #22259631 - 09/19/15 10:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Nothing really seems to matter anymore, because no matter what happens I always just end up alone with myself.





Well, we're all alone, whether we acknowledge it or not.  Sometimes I feel the most alone when I'm in the company of others.


"We are all alone, born alone, die alone, and -- in spite of True Romance magazines -- we shall all someday look back on our lives and see that, in spite of our company, we were alone the whole way. I do not say lonely -- at least, not all the time -- but essentially, and finally, alone. This is what makes your self-respect so important, and I don't see how you can respect yourself if you must look in the hearts and minds of others for your happiness." --Hunter S. Thompson


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22259648 - 09/19/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Nothing really seems to matter anymore, because no matter what happens I always just end up alone with myself.





Well, we're all alone, whether we acknowledge it or not.  Sometimes I feel the most alone when I'm in the company of others.


"We are all alone, born alone, die alone, and -- in spite of True Romance magazines -- we shall all someday look back on our lives and see that, in spite of our company, we were alone the whole way. I do not say lonely -- at least, not all the time -- but essentially, and finally, alone. This is what makes your self-respect so important, and I don't see how you can respect yourself if you must look in the hearts and minds of others for your happiness." --Hunter S. Thompson




Through externalized purity sealed the gates of your own paradise.
"The blind ones will always suffer in secrecy"

Quote:

The daily signs, in all their irony, remind me of the absence of chance to turn to something else, for I'm bound to the Devil with unbreakable chains, firmly held by His Sons whose hearts are drunk with the liquor of deception. Faith in the Holy Retriever leaves nothing much but void, as His silent voice weakens nerves and sanity. Bleed, bleed the knuckles on the wall of captivity, covered with clumsy scribblings, emblems of deficiency, flightiness and vanity; smelling, dripping urine and lechery from the ground to the roof. Bleed, bleed the knuckles on the walls of duplicity, for there are walls, and walls, and walls, and no door... Revelations through emptiness. Omniabsence filled by His greatness. There's no way out, no chance to solve a riddle unconscious of itself, for the mystery is concealed at the heart of madness. Bleed the knuckles, bleed for tempting yet sterile appears the way to take by force and not through inner ascension what it is eagered for. Revelations through emptiness. Omniabsence filled by His greatness. Thus the way is clear, but catechism remains blank. Lost in a cold mist of unearthly thickness, the Sun abides doubtlessly, desperately, cruelly omniabsent. Alone among them all... Alone, alone in the glance of the Devil.




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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22260270 - 09/19/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

circastes said:
Instead of meditation, what about medication?




Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
I don't think that's the case with me.



Yeah, nice work there Thantos. Instead of thoroughly investigating all your options you hang around here whinging and moaning because you don't 'think' that's the case.

Guess what? It's all that 'thinking' that has left you in this horrible, unfeeling, shit spot that you're living in right now.

How about 'doing' for once?!?!




It's because the doing feels empty, that's why. I have been looking at the options. Medication just made things worse for me in the past.

But I can't stop thinking, it's what I do. My mind has to solve, to expound, to seek and dissect. Thinking has been what's keeping me afloat, because if I stopped I would sink back in again. It's the only thing keeping me up from the void. Every time I give up thinking I feel the pull dragging me down again. My situation has come from being assailed by too many concepts that are difficult to argue against. This just happens to be the latest one that dealt a real number to me.

So I hope to find something to help me out. Since everything outside has failed I was hoping the key would be within me.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22260330 - 09/19/15 01:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quit ignoring your inner voice and face it. Stop turning a blind eye to the suffering of others/ the suffering you inflect with the ego's pettiness. It's your duty to help when you see someone in need. When you ignore that you pay with your peace of mind.
Quote:


The teacher of Yâo was Hsü Yû; of Hsü Yû, Nieh Khüeh; of Nieh Khüeh, Wang Î; of Wang Î, Pheî-î. Yâo asked Hsü Yû, saying, 'Is Nieh Khüeh fit to be the correlate of Heaven? (If you think he is), I will avail myself of the services of Wang Î to constrain him (to take my place).' Hsü Yû replied, 'Such a measure would be hazardous, and full of peril to the kingdom! The character of Nieh Khüeh is this;--

he is acute, perspicacious, shrewd and knowing, ready in reply, sharp in retort, and hasty; his natural (endowments) surpass those of other men, but by his human qualities he seeks to obtain the Heavenly gift; he exercises his discrimination in suppressing his errors, but he does not know what is the source from which his errors arise.

Make him the correlate of Heaven!

He would employ the human qualities, so that no regard would be paid to the Heavenly gift. Moreover, he would assign different functions to the different parts of the one person. Moreover, honour would be given to knowledge, and he would have his plans take effect with the speed of fire. Moreover, he would be the slave of everything he initiated. Moreover, he would be embarrassed by things. Moreover, he would be looking all round for the response of things (to his measures). Moreover, he would be responding to the opinion of the multitude as to what was right. Moreover, he would be changing as things changed, and would not begin to have any principle of constancy. How can such a man be fit to be the correlate of Heaven? Nevertheless, as there are the smaller branches of a family and the common ancestor of all its branches, he might be the father of a branch, but not the father of the fathers of all the branches. Such government (as he would conduct) would lead to disorder. It would be calamity in one in the position of a minister, and ruin if he were in the position of the sovereign.'




Edited by Eggtimer (09/19/15 01:48 PM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22260402 - 09/19/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
I hear this come up often with meditation. But I would like to know what everyone's experience with this is? Did you find what you were looking for? Well I guess looking for isn't the term but did you discover something about yourself that you never knew?

It's just such a vague statement but I wanted to know other people's experience with it. Maybe just to give me a bit of hope you know.




I can understand wanting to hear what others have seen for a chance at what maybe you can see. I don't know where the cliche bit about answers lying within came from, but I can elaborate from personal experience.

For me meditation has been a great many things. A release, an escape, a practice, a burden, a solution, a problem, and any number of other things. It has been dynamic, it has been static. I can take a meditation practice on the road with me. I can leave it at home. I can leave it behind. I can bring it to the front. I can remember it, I can forget it. I may be meditating and no one but me knows it. I may be sitting in a meditative posture and yet not be meditating.

What does this suggest about answers lying within? Well, IMO it suggests that meditation is related to the internal landscape more than anything else. That I cannot say, go meditate in this way and that this will lead to a predictable result. I cannot say meditation is independent from state of being. But I can, from experience, say that if I meditate I will find an experience which is directly influenced by "me".

And that if I meditate, I will more clearly see this influence. Meditation IME is nearly synonymous with clarity. And so if answers truly are within, then meditation is one of the few ways to clearly see them.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Eggtimer]
    #22260777 - 09/19/15 03:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Eggtimer said:
Quit ignoring your inner voice and face it. Stop turning a blind eye to the suffering of others/ the suffering you inflect with the ego's pettiness. It's your duty to help when you see someone in need. When you ignore that you pay with your peace of mind.
Quote:


The teacher of Yâo was Hsü Yû; of Hsü Yû, Nieh Khüeh; of Nieh Khüeh, Wang Î; of Wang Î, Pheî-î. Yâo asked Hsü Yû, saying, 'Is Nieh Khüeh fit to be the correlate of Heaven? (If you think he is), I will avail myself of the services of Wang Î to constrain him (to take my place).' Hsü Yû replied, 'Such a measure would be hazardous, and full of peril to the kingdom! The character of Nieh Khüeh is this;--

he is acute, perspicacious, shrewd and knowing, ready in reply, sharp in retort, and hasty; his natural (endowments) surpass those of other men, but by his human qualities he seeks to obtain the Heavenly gift; he exercises his discrimination in suppressing his errors, but he does not know what is the source from which his errors arise.

Make him the correlate of Heaven!

He would employ the human qualities, so that no regard would be paid to the Heavenly gift. Moreover, he would assign different functions to the different parts of the one person. Moreover, honour would be given to knowledge, and he would have his plans take effect with the speed of fire. Moreover, he would be the slave of everything he initiated. Moreover, he would be embarrassed by things. Moreover, he would be looking all round for the response of things (to his measures). Moreover, he would be responding to the opinion of the multitude as to what was right. Moreover, he would be changing as things changed, and would not begin to have any principle of constancy. How can such a man be fit to be the correlate of Heaven? Nevertheless, as there are the smaller branches of a family and the common ancestor of all its branches, he might be the father of a branch, but not the father of the fathers of all the branches. Such government (as he would conduct) would lead to disorder. It would be calamity in one in the position of a minister, and ruin if he were in the position of the sovereign.'







Wrong. I have greater peace of mind not giving a shot about humans suffering. As for duty, who decides that? You? There is no calling for humans to help each other out. As for an inner voice, that very well could just be a deceiver. In fact by going to against mine I have avoided disasters. The downside to not giving a shot is that the good stuff goes with it though. But I'm beginning to wonder if that's a good thing.


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22262925 - 09/20/15 12:02 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:

Wrong. I have greater peace of mind not giving a shot about humans suffering. As for duty, who decides that? You? There is no calling for humans to help each other out. As for an inner voice, that very well could just be a deceiver. In fact by going to against mine I have avoided disasters. The downside to not giving a shot is that the good stuff goes with it though. But I'm beginning to wonder if that's a good thing.




You get to avoid problems but this keeps you in chains. It keeps your mind running in loops of anxiety and regret.

By inner voice I should of said highest self. You are the listener not the thinker.
There's a big difference in life when you know you know you observe your thoughts but aren't them.


Most animals have built in empathy for their own kind but humans by seeing only their differences miss their unity. Unity is the bias for compassion and love where noticing difference is the bias for discrimination.
Even rats.
http://scienceblog.com/78369/rats-will-try-to-save-members-of-their-own-species-from-drowning/#Wcc84zmV02Ciio7M.97


I know it's a lot of reading but this kind of stuff really helped me to understand.
-Erwin Schroedinger
Quote:

we are faced with the following remarkable…situation. While the stuff from which our world picture is built is yielded exclusively from the sense organs as organs of the mind, so that every man’s world picture is and always remains a construct of his mind and cannot be proved to have any other existence, yet the conscious mind itself remains a stranger within that construct, it has no living space in it, you can spot it nowhere in space.




Quote:

Suffering is forgetting who you really are.

We suffer when we don’t see this completeness – this intimacy – within the present experience. When we don’t see that every wave that’s presently appearing is part of the ocean and therefore allowed in the ocean, we start trying to escape this moment to attempt to reach the next moment. We experience ourselves as not whole or somehow broken so we attempt to move away from this moment. In truth, that movement is not actually possible but we try anyway because that’s how we are programmed. We try to move away from this moment to get to the next moment, to tomorrow or next year or to ten years time. We start to use time to achieve this. This is the origin of suffering. We try to escape what’s happening now. We try to run away from aspects of our present experience. We try to escape these thoughts, sensations and feelings and get to a future place where things will be better. That’s the movement of suffering.

Within suffering you’ll always find seeking. Seeking is the basic mechanism behind all of our suffering. We label certain elements of experience ‘bad’ or ‘negative’ or ‘dark’ or ‘dangerous’ or ‘unhealthy’ and that’s because of our conditioning. We have been conditioned to label things as ‘fear’, ‘sadness’, ‘anger’, and do on, and to judge these as negative, or not-okay, or bad, or sinful – basically as expressions of incompleteness, as threats to completeness. Because we don’t seethe completeness in these waves, because we can’t find the ocean within these so-called ‘negative’ waves, we try to escape them and that movement ‘away from’ creates the suffering. Then we create stories and identities around this suffering: ‘Oh, I’m a victim of my suffering. I’m a victim of fear and pain! Why is this happening to me? How can I escape this experience?‘

Suffering is a great teacher. Maybe it’s the best teacher but we often don’t see that, because we don’t realise what suffering really is. Normally, we do all sorts of things to avoid, deny and numb our suffering. We take medication, drink alcohol or try to distract ourselves. Of course, there’s ultimately nothing with doing these things either! But suffering is always an opportunity; it’s an invitation to discover the completeness in what you are running away from. Which aspects of your experience right now are not okay? Which waves (thoughts, sensations, and feelings) of the ocean are being rejected right now? Which waves are not being seen as part of the ocean? Basically, what are you at war with? This is always the question that suffering leads you to.

Within the experience of suffering you’ll always find seeking. You can believe as much as you like that you’re not seeking, or that you are free from the self, but whenever there’s suffering there’s seeking. It’s the story of ‘me’ looking for something, escaping something; it’s the story of incompleteness or of feeling that there’s something wrong with you. So, the invitation – not a demand – is to take a look at what you are at war with right now. What’s the story? What are the images you are trying to hold up? What are you defending? What are you rejecting? What are you running away from? Look a little deeper. Perhaps these images of yourself are not who you really are. Maybe these stories don’t define you.

We suffer when we try to hold up images of ourselves – ‘I’m strong, I’m enlightened, I’m a success, I’m loving, I’m kind, I’m happy’ – which conflict with life as it is. And in the end, all images conflict with life as it is – no image can match this moment. This moment is the fire that burns up all images. In this moment there could be pain, sadness, fear –any image that says that what’s appearing shouldn’t be appearing, that you should be happy, or free from pain, is a false image.





Quote:

If we understand awareness as the immediate and indefinable state of
being aware
, then we can begin to comprehend the Indian concept of
consciousness
as theconstant state in all changing states of awareness. Just as the principle of theconservation of matter in the West holds that matter is never limited to any of itsapparent forms or bodies, so consciousness is never limited to any of its subject states.Thus, as death of the body in materialism is not the death of matter, so the death of egostates which arise from ideas of
my, mine
is not consciousness. This is where the idea of
Karma, Samsara
(‘wheel of suffering’), and
re-birth
originate. The Axial Age, in India, as with the Greeks, was a period in which the first greatquestions as to the nature of the world and the place of
human awareness
in it wereasked. In India many of these questions were directed toward the nature of the
knowing self
, and only thereafter toward the knowable and known object world. The Indian worldview is one in which consciousness or the potential for awareness of one’s self and of theworld of objects is a unifying and central concern. It is subject awareness whichproduces the distinctions of same and different, similar and dissimilar in conceptions.




Quote:

rom this perspective, consciousness or‘being conscious’ is ultimately both a ‘way of awareness’ and that of which one ‘isaware. This explanation is often illustrated with a
dreamer—dream analogy
. In thedream different things appear and different events occur.. However, the dreamer and dream are one.. This approach is analogous to that of the
Upanisads---
but in the case of the Universe itself, it is the dream of
Brahman as Cosmic Consciousness.
The Upanisads
are the texts of unknown forest mystics of the 7th– 2ndCenturies BCE.
Asimilar position is found in the
Bhagavad Gita, and the Vedanta ---Mimamsa school of philosophy.
This view holds that subject and object are both different aspects of Brahman or
Cosmic Consciousness. The individual human aspect of  Brahman is the  Atman or individual breath.
If one takes the external world for a multiplicity of objects, and assumes one is unique this is the result of an illusion, or
Maya. As the Upanisads
consistently assert, when you look at others and the world around you, remember “Tattwam asi” “That art thou!




Edited by Eggtimer (09/20/15 12:46 AM)


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22263146 - 09/20/15 01:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

circastes said:
Instead of meditation, what about medication?




Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
I don't think that's the case with me.



Yeah, nice work there Thantos. Instead of thoroughly investigating all your options you hang around here whinging and moaning because you don't 'think' that's the case.

Guess what? It's all that 'thinking' that has left you in this horrible, unfeeling, shit spot that you're living in right now.

How about 'doing' for once?!?!




It's because the doing feels empty, that's why. I have been looking at the options. Medication just made things worse for me in the past.

But I can't stop thinking, it's what I do. My mind has to solve, to expound, to seek and dissect. Thinking has been what's keeping me afloat, because if I stopped I would sink back in again. It's the only thing keeping me up from the void. Every time I give up thinking I feel the pull dragging me down again. My situation has come from being assailed by too many concepts that are difficult to argue against. This just happens to be the latest one that dealt a real number to me.

So I hope to find something to help me out. Since everything outside has failed I was hoping the key would be within me.




You have to let go into the void trusting in the light of faith I think. Otherwise your mind will just keep going in circles and you will remain on the treadmill of suffering.

Under the help of amanita, I am learning how to travel into the void and trust me, it ain't pretty what I find there. I have had to confront many of the most ugliest and horrific aspects of myself. Darkness and evil. A terrible sleepiness that renders my mind imobile and unable to think. At that time, I cannot think thoughts, so I rely on faith alone to guide me.

What happened to me is that at some point in my childhood I decided life was scary and unpleasant and that I didn't want to face it, so I turned away from life and took on this awful death zombie sleep consciousness. I was cut off from love and light and instead was doomed to walk the earth chasing endlessly after the lusts of the flesh, never finding satisfaction anywhere. Being in this state made me a perfect candidate for substance abuse, because they gave me a sensaton of being alive. GBut in the long run abusing drugs for many years added to my inner deadness and lethargy.

Now I am trying to turn back toward life and live again but it ain't easy.

I hope I am going the right way. I don't really know where I am going, I simply know that treading water at the surface of the void never gets you anywhere. In addition, all material pleasures are useless, utterly useless. I mean, they are useful in terms of enjoying them temporally but if you are seeking a real happiness that is not just a brief elation, then all worldly pleasures are useless.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Eggtimer]
    #22263800 - 09/20/15 08:31 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Eggtimer said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:

Wrong. I have greater peace of mind not giving a shot about humans suffering. As for duty, who decides that? You? There is no calling for humans to help each other out. As for an inner voice, that very well could just be a deceiver. In fact by going to against mine I have avoided disasters. The downside to not giving a shot is that the good stuff goes with it though. But I'm beginning to wonder if that's a good thing.




You get to avoid problems but this keeps you in chains. It keeps your mind running in loops of anxiety and regret.

By inner voice I should of said highest self. You are the listener not the thinker.
There's a big difference in life when you know you know you observe your thoughts but aren't them.


Most animals have built in empathy for their own kind but humans by seeing only their differences miss their unity. Unity is the bias for compassion and love where noticing difference is the bias for discrimination.
Even rats.
http://scienceblog.com/78369/rats-will-try-to-save-members-of-their-own-species-from-drowning/#Wcc84zmV02Ciio7M.97


I know it's a lot of reading but this kind of stuff really helped me to understand.
-Erwin Schroedinger
Quote:

we are faced with the following remarkable…situation. While the stuff from which our world picture is built is yielded exclusively from the sense organs as organs of the mind, so that every man’s world picture is and always remains a construct of his mind and cannot be proved to have any other existence, yet the conscious mind itself remains a stranger within that construct, it has no living space in it, you can spot it nowhere in space.




Quote:

Suffering is forgetting who you really are.

We suffer when we don’t see this completeness – this intimacy – within the present experience. When we don’t see that every wave that’s presently appearing is part of the ocean and therefore allowed in the ocean, we start trying to escape this moment to attempt to reach the next moment. We experience ourselves as not whole or somehow broken so we attempt to move away from this moment. In truth, that movement is not actually possible but we try anyway because that’s how we are programmed. We try to move away from this moment to get to the next moment, to tomorrow or next year or to ten years time. We start to use time to achieve this. This is the origin of suffering. We try to escape what’s happening now. We try to run away from aspects of our present experience. We try to escape these thoughts, sensations and feelings and get to a future place where things will be better. That’s the movement of suffering.

Within suffering you’ll always find seeking. Seeking is the basic mechanism behind all of our suffering. We label certain elements of experience ‘bad’ or ‘negative’ or ‘dark’ or ‘dangerous’ or ‘unhealthy’ and that’s because of our conditioning. We have been conditioned to label things as ‘fear’, ‘sadness’, ‘anger’, and do on, and to judge these as negative, or not-okay, or bad, or sinful – basically as expressions of incompleteness, as threats to completeness. Because we don’t seethe completeness in these waves, because we can’t find the ocean within these so-called ‘negative’ waves, we try to escape them and that movement ‘away from’ creates the suffering. Then we create stories and identities around this suffering: ‘Oh, I’m a victim of my suffering. I’m a victim of fear and pain! Why is this happening to me? How can I escape this experience?‘

Suffering is a great teacher. Maybe it’s the best teacher but we often don’t see that, because we don’t realise what suffering really is. Normally, we do all sorts of things to avoid, deny and numb our suffering. We take medication, drink alcohol or try to distract ourselves. Of course, there’s ultimately nothing with doing these things either! But suffering is always an opportunity; it’s an invitation to discover the completeness in what you are running away from. Which aspects of your experience right now are not okay? Which waves (thoughts, sensations, and feelings) of the ocean are being rejected right now? Which waves are not being seen as part of the ocean? Basically, what are you at war with? This is always the question that suffering leads you to.

Within the experience of suffering you’ll always find seeking. You can believe as much as you like that you’re not seeking, or that you are free from the self, but whenever there’s suffering there’s seeking. It’s the story of ‘me’ looking for something, escaping something; it’s the story of incompleteness or of feeling that there’s something wrong with you. So, the invitation – not a demand – is to take a look at what you are at war with right now. What’s the story? What are the images you are trying to hold up? What are you defending? What are you rejecting? What are you running away from? Look a little deeper. Perhaps these images of yourself are not who you really are. Maybe these stories don’t define you.

We suffer when we try to hold up images of ourselves – ‘I’m strong, I’m enlightened, I’m a success, I’m loving, I’m kind, I’m happy’ – which conflict with life as it is. And in the end, all images conflict with life as it is – no image can match this moment. This moment is the fire that burns up all images. In this moment there could be pain, sadness, fear –any image that says that what’s appearing shouldn’t be appearing, that you should be happy, or free from pain, is a false image.





Quote:

If we understand awareness as the immediate and indefinable state of
being aware
, then we can begin to comprehend the Indian concept of
consciousness
as theconstant state in all changing states of awareness. Just as the principle of theconservation of matter in the West holds that matter is never limited to any of itsapparent forms or bodies, so consciousness is never limited to any of its subject states.Thus, as death of the body in materialism is not the death of matter, so the death of egostates which arise from ideas of
my, mine
is not consciousness. This is where the idea of
Karma, Samsara
(‘wheel of suffering’), and
re-birth
originate. The Axial Age, in India, as with the Greeks, was a period in which the first greatquestions as to the nature of the world and the place of
human awareness
in it wereasked. In India many of these questions were directed toward the nature of the
knowing self
, and only thereafter toward the knowable and known object world. The Indian worldview is one in which consciousness or the potential for awareness of one’s self and of theworld of objects is a unifying and central concern. It is subject awareness whichproduces the distinctions of same and different, similar and dissimilar in conceptions.




Quote:

rom this perspective, consciousness or‘being conscious’ is ultimately both a ‘way of awareness’ and that of which one ‘isaware. This explanation is often illustrated with a
dreamer—dream analogy
. In thedream different things appear and different events occur.. However, the dreamer and dream are one.. This approach is analogous to that of the
Upanisads---
but in the case of the Universe itself, it is the dream of
Brahman as Cosmic Consciousness.
The Upanisads
are the texts of unknown forest mystics of the 7th– 2ndCenturies BCE.
Asimilar position is found in the
Bhagavad Gita, and the Vedanta ---Mimamsa school of philosophy.
This view holds that subject and object are both different aspects of Brahman or
Cosmic Consciousness. The individual human aspect of  Brahman is the  Atman or individual breath.
If one takes the external world for a multiplicity of objects, and assumes one is unique this is the result of an illusion, or
Maya. As the Upanisads
consistently assert, when you look at others and the world around you, remember “Tattwam asi” “That art thou!







You forget that the so called empathy can simply be a ensuring the survival of the species. Take note how it said members of its own species. Even then this is only based on human observations, we cannot truly know what goes through the mind of a rat. We call it empathy when it could really just boil down to ensuring survival. This has nothing to do with empathy. It's just ensuring a species survival. Even so, empathy is a human concept.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleBayerPhi
Always Learning

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 1,884
Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22263897 - 09/20/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

This thread is well responded to, it seems your looking for a debate and not advice OP.
You've already made your mind up, what do you want? To experience what you don't believe in? To take the leap of faith without having faith?  You'll be better off being saved by Gnosis - if you are not able to, or never able to experience it.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: The answer lies within? [Re: BayerPhi]
    #22264021 - 09/20/15 10:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BayerPhi said:
This thread is well responded to, it seems your looking for a debate and not advice OP.
You've already made your mind up



That's a very succinct summation my friend. I couldn't agree more.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineEggtimer
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Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 3,097
Last seen: 4 days, 2 hours
Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22265470 - 09/20/15 03:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:

You forget that the so called empathy can simply be a ensuring the survival of the species. Take note how it said members of its own species. Even then this is only based on human observations, we cannot truly know what goes through the mind of a rat. We call it empathy when it could really just boil down to ensuring survival. This has nothing to do with empathy. It's just ensuring a species survival. Even so, empathy is a human concept.




You most likely received an education based on secular monotheism. In the monotheistic world there is a separation between mind and world which unfortunately continued into the secular world view.
You are told from a young age you personify(project your emotions onto the world) This is simply untrue. Where do you think the emotional centers of your brain evolved from? 
Do you also believe that weed is one of the most dangerous substance known to man? Something else a lot of people learn in school....

If you really want to understand this stuff do some reading on history, philosophy, science, and mythology(not monotheistic influenced mythology!)
Christianity did a pretty good job suppressing and destroying all the cultures that contradicted their world view.  Believe it or not your world view is probably based and influenced on that world view.
You're trying to fit these ideas you don't understand into this world view and it will not work. Trust me I've been there.

http://www.mind-media.com/go.php?http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447742/
Quote:

Although several articles in the October 2002 issue on Complementary and Alternative Medicine reflect the interest in spirituality that exists in the field, they appear unable to discuss it directly. One of the reasons for this may be that scientific medicine has its roots in a rift from spirituality. Before Western medical practice and research began to involve what was considered to be an unnatural curiosity about the human body, medicine was intricately involved with a person’s spirit or soul. It was during the 16th century in Europe that men began to commit the heresy of stealing dead bodies from graves and actually looking at bones, muscles, and organs. “Laws against dissecting human corpses began to relax during the Renaissance; as a result, the first truly scientific studies of the human body began.”1

The dissecting of bodies has become such a basic feature of medical school education, it may be difficult to imagine the historical sacrilege of this act initially. The Church condemned these “body snatchers,” contributing to Western medicine’s alienation from the spirit. Larry Dossey writes,

    From the sixteenth century on, mind has been progressively expunged from the phenomenal world. . . . Scientific consciousness is alienated consciousness: there is no ecstatic merger with nature, but rather total separation from it. Subject and object are always seen in opposition to each other. . . . The logical end point of this world view is a feeling of total reification: everything is an object, alien, not-me; and I am ultimately an object too, an alienated “thing” in a world of other, equally meaningless things. 2

As an American Indian, I am aware of an entirely different tradition of healing that never split from spirit world. There is no difference, for example, between Navajo religion and Navajo medicine. American Indian medicine consists of spoken prayers, songs that are prayers, rituals, and instruments of prayer. Even herbal medicine comes with prayers for a person’s spirit. It is interesting to me that modern providers have recently “discovered” holistic medicine. It is something like the way Columbus “discovered” America. Suddenly our spiritual practices exist, though they have been practical for centuries. We also experience alienation as a byproduct of would-be spiritual genocide, what Eduardo Duran calls the “soul wound”: “The notion of ‘soul wound’ is one which is at the core of much of the suffering which Indigenous peoples have undergone for centuries.”3(p127)

When modern public health and medical practitioners are able to talk about the spirit and understand what they themselves have lost, I think their wound will begin to heal. Perhaps then they can help the rest of us.













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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Eggtimer]
    #22265675 - 09/20/15 04:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Eggtimer - you make some amazing posts my brother, I just wish they were a little easier to digest!!


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22265826 - 09/20/15 04:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Eggtimer - you make some amazing posts my brother, I just wish they were a little easier to digest!!




Thanks
Haha I know. But trying to fit an understanding of the cosmos/nature and where we fit in in a single post is hard!:lol:

The classical education is very different from the kind most people get today.
Today you get an education that separates all the fields of knowledge into bits that are disconnected. 
We're never come to any understanding as long as we look at everything being separated into different fields of knowledge that don't belong together.

This book is one of my favorites on mythology. 673 illustrated pages of myths from all over the world. It really helps to understand how ancient people viewed cosmos/nature/divinity and where we fit into all of it. It's quite different from our western idea of it.
http://www.amazon.com/Mythology-Illustrated-Anthology-World-Storytelling/dp/1571458271


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: BayerPhi]
    #22265861 - 09/20/15 04:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BayerPhi said:
This thread is well responded to, it seems your looking for a debate and not advice OP.
You've already made your mind up, what do you want? To experience what you don't believe in? To take the leap of faith without having faith?  You'll be better off being saved by Gnosis - if you are not able to, or never able to experience it.




I haven't really gotten my answers to be honest. I asked if people have had an experience of finding the answers inside but I haven't gotten too many posts on it, and some deviate from it. I'm looking for advice but it's hard to buy into what people are saying. It's different perspectives and hard to make sense of any of it.

It's also thinking about how this is just one planet in a sea of darkness. That all of this is just the human perspective of things. Even being part of nature seems small to the vastness of space. It's like you said, belief. Because that's what this comes down to, a shot in the dark. I'm used to science because such things can be tested and proven. But faith and belief, that's a big pill to swallow. Faith is irrational and illogical, so it's hard for me to believe in such a thing.

All the mixed answers don't help much either. I'm just trying to make sense of something I haven't put stock into for a long time. Sure when I was a kid it was different, but now it's very hard if not impossible.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22265986 - 09/20/15 05:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

BayerPhi said:
This thread is well responded to, it seems your looking for a debate and not advice OP.
You've already made your mind up, what do you want? To experience what you don't believe in? To take the leap of faith without having faith?  You'll be better off being saved by Gnosis - if you are not able to, or never able to experience it.




I haven't really gotten my answers to be honest. I asked if people have had an experience of finding the answers inside but I haven't gotten too many posts on it, and some deviate from it. I'm looking for advice but it's hard to buy into what people are saying. It's different perspectives and hard to make sense of any of it.

It's also thinking about how this is just one planet in a sea of darkness. That all of this is just the human perspective of things. Even being part of nature seems small to the vastness of space. It's like you said, belief. Because that's what this comes down to, a shot in the dark. I'm used to science because such things can be tested and proven. But faith and belief, that's a big pill to swallow. Faith is irrational and illogical, so it's hard for me to believe in such a thing.

All the mixed answers don't help much either. I'm just trying to make sense of something I haven't put stock into for a long time. Sure when I was a kid it was different, but now it's very hard if not impossible.



Jesus man, just grow up already!! It's really becoming quite boring watching you flounder about in the mess of it all. I think the problem is that you think you're somehow 'special', whether you care to admit it to yourself or not.

I've said time and time again, we're all in the same fucking boat man!!


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22266436 - 09/20/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well there is what we sense..sometimes our memory..sometimes our peace of mind..our sampling of ideas as thoughts..then we have the 5 senses..and maybe secret senses as well..awareness and a general feeling of connection with our place of living..our family and friends..even our general society as a whole..


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22266628 - 09/20/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

BayerPhi said:
This thread is well responded to, it seems your looking for a debate and not advice OP.
You've already made your mind up, what do you want? To experience what you don't believe in? To take the leap of faith without having faith?  You'll be better off being saved by Gnosis - if you are not able to, or never able to experience it.




I haven't really gotten my answers to be honest. I asked if people have had an experience of finding the answers inside but I haven't gotten too many posts on it, and some deviate from it. I'm looking for advice but it's hard to buy into what people are saying. It's different perspectives and hard to make sense of any of it.

It's also thinking about how this is just one planet in a sea of darkness. That all of this is just the human perspective of things. Even being part of nature seems small to the vastness of space. It's like you said, belief. Because that's what this comes down to, a shot in the dark. I'm used to science because such things can be tested and proven. But faith and belief, that's a big pill to swallow. Faith is irrational and illogical, so it's hard for me to believe in such a thing.

All the mixed answers don't help much either. I'm just trying to make sense of something I haven't put stock into for a long time. Sure when I was a kid it was different, but now it's very hard if not impossible.



Jesus man, just grow up already!! It's really becoming quite boring watching you flounder about in the mess of it all. I think the problem is that you think you're somehow 'special', whether you care to admit it to yourself or not.

I've said time and time again, we're all in the same fucking boat man!!




I'm aware of that. But its hard to keep that in mind when you are in the thick of it all.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22266654 - 09/20/15 07:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, and I'm not? What makes you come across the way you do compared to the other 95% of people that post here? Do you for some reason think they're not in the 'thick of it all' too?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22267351 - 09/20/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Yeah, and I'm not? What makes you come across the way you do compared to the other 95% of people that post here? Do you for some reason think they're not in the 'thick of it all' too?




Like I'm saying, is hard to see it that way sometimes. While that is the case though the thought offers little solace for me. Also perspective taking is not one of my strong suits.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22267479 - 09/20/15 10:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Like I'm saying, is hard to see it that way sometimes. While that is the case though the thought offers little solace for me. Also perspective taking is not one of my strong suits.



That's ok Thantos, you precious little darling you.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22268469 - 09/21/15 08:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not saying I'm special.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22268537 - 09/21/15 09:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You are though.  You can't find interest in anything.  Everyone has given you ways to find interest, but none of them work for you because you are just sooo nihilistic.  Meditation and the ideas behind spirituality don't work for you either, because you are sooo scientific.  Science still doesn't work for you though, because of the whole nihilism thing..


You are such a scientific nihilist, that nothing can satisfy you.  You are so different.  Nobody thinks like you.  You understand love is just a silly thing humans created to feel safe and connected.  You understand meditation is just foolery of the mind and nobody can give you a real benefit as to why you should practice it, even though they've experienced these benefits, these answers are not enough for you. 


I'd like to know who told you, "the answer lies within?"  You said you hear this often but I don't believe you.  If it was from friends, why wouldn't you ask them these questions?  If it was from something online, why wouldn't you continue reading the text?

I think you made the op up just to make an argument for your specialness.


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22268660 - 09/21/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, cez is right.  You've come off as quite self-centered throughout this whole saga.  I don't think the attention you've been given has helped you or anyone.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: cez]
    #22269287 - 09/21/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
You are though.  You can't find interest in anything.  Everyone has given you ways to find interest, but none of them work for you because you are just sooo nihilistic.  Meditation and the ideas behind spirituality don't work for you either, because you are sooo scientific.  Science still doesn't work for you though, because of the whole nihilism thing..


You are such a scientific nihilist, that nothing can satisfy you.  You are so different.  Nobody thinks like you.  You understand love is just a silly thing humans created to feel safe and connected.  You understand meditation is just foolery of the mind and nobody can give you a real benefit as to why you should practice it, even though they've experienced these benefits, these answers are not enough for you. 


I'd like to know who told you, "the answer lies within?"  You said you hear this often but I don't believe you.  If it was from friends, why wouldn't you ask them these questions?  If it was from something online, why wouldn't you continue reading the text?

I think you made the op up just to make an argument for your specialness.




The saying was something I heard a lot but the articles that mention it were always kind of vague on what it meant exactly.

As for this, I am trying my best to fight it. But as for the comments on finding interest, they were not much help since I have been trying them out and bombing.

I'm not saying I'm special. But when you have tried many things and nothing works you begin to question a lot of things.

I'm not a nihilist, but I just can't seem to find a way to beat it.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22269411 - 09/21/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You don't want to change imo.  You are content with your current state of affairs.  The change you claim to desire will only grow when you are that sick of your current way of being and you've clearly shown you are your biggest fan and don't want to change a thing, and that's fine.  Quit acting like everything is so hopeless though.  You like it otherwise you'd do something about it.

I bet when you leave the nest, you will be humbled and this change you act like you want will come on its own accord.


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: cez]
    #22269666 - 09/21/15 02:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Or maybe I have tried and haven't seen anything that works so far. It has been over a month and I'm sick of feeling this way. I'm tired of the looping thoughts that always seem to make the problems return. Or the need for my brain to have to logically analyze everything in some vain attempt to be intelligent. Or how everyone seems to be able to think this out better than I can and I'm left here trying to understand how they did it. I am my own worst enemy.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22269857 - 09/21/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Self-work is not like turning on a lightbulb.  It's something that I think you are going to have to struggle with for some time before it's ingrained in your nature and then it gets a bit easier. Anything worth having takes time to get.  You aren't going to be good at anything if you only work on it for a month and then give up.  This type of work is no different.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: cez]
    #22269897 - 09/21/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
Self-work is not like turning on a lightbulb.



Yes. Thantos, you seem to think that you're going to get some kind of quick fix answer that's gonna change your life. It don't work like that pal. Give it 5 years of working hard, every day, not moaning about it, not feeling like you're so hard done by and accepting your lot (which is being in 'the thick of it all' like the rest of us) and I can nigh on guarantee that you'll change.

Or just carry on being 'special' and remain miserable.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22270185 - 09/21/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Sigh, maybe you're right. I just want it away so much. But I should know there is no silver bullet for this sort of thing.

It's hard some days, getting the strength to get out of bed and carry on. Even harder wondering why I still do.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22270212 - 09/21/15 04:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
It's hard some days, getting the strength to get out of bed and carry on. Even harder wondering why I still do.



I know, it is bloody hard. You're not the only one who feels this way you know. I suggest to you that there's not a single one amongst us for whom it isn't 'hard some days'. So how about you stop being such a precious little darling and deal with it like the rest of us? Perhaps then you might even have some constructive input for the community here!!

Open your heart, open your mind. Both seem very closed for you. It takes bravery to face each day my friend.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22270646 - 09/21/15 05:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

paradise...

OMG COLDPLAY FOR THE WIN!!


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #22270674 - 09/21/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The soul extends above a mountain...which is where all the shops are contained..above and beyond the horizon..into and out of the soul..which is inside and out of the extensions of belief..and net secularity..and the between is in a moist covenant with your soul mates..even anything at all and the division of what is right..into precise pieces that we experience in time..and all at once..always..even the rite to keep peace is a peace keeping rite..the meaning of life is always rites..and how to achieve them..they can be anything at all..and thats why Freemasonry is such a popular club to go to..beware you dont get raped or anything because that is what Scottish rite means..that since they can do it, so therefore its their rite...luckily there is higher relations to Scotland and Rome..I am in Freemasonry called a Holy Roman Creator..which is a bit Brow..but knowing that you are the Creator in your soul..is a penchant way of knowing your rites..which is that you alone are in this hotseat for the rest of Eternity Basically..it is the self obviously but people can get scared of anything..

Forming rum with Clay, like rum balls or pure clay, just to form balls..spheres of smelling good clay..and plasticine!


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #22271157 - 09/21/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know that meditation gives answers, but it will remove the questions.


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22271380 - 09/21/15 08:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
It's hard some days, getting the strength to get out of bed and carry on. Even harder wondering why I still do.



I know, it is bloody hard. You're not the only one who feels this way you know. I suggest to you that there's not a single one amongst us for whom it isn't 'hard some days'. So how about you stop being such a precious little darling and deal with it like the rest of us? Perhaps then you might even have some constructive input for the community here!!

Open your heart, open your mind. Both seem very closed for you. It takes bravery to face each day my friend.




I have opened my heart in the past, but it was too much and too scary. I opened my mind as well and it was also too overwhelming. I guess that's why I'm so limited now. Because it's easier not to give a shit and shut things down, while the opposite can be overwhelming.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22271396 - 09/21/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Are you lazy or scared? It really sounds like one of the two. Or both.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22271876 - 09/21/15 10:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

There is an awesome Buddhist meditation on the Self. Basically, you sit, focus in on your breathing until you are nice and relaxed, but focused. Then you simply search for where "I" is. Is it in your brain? Is it your arm? Your heart? You search your entire body, and in my experience, you don't find the self anywhere. The boundaries between your physical body and the environment begin to blur.

You probably need to be somewhat practised in meditation, but it can blow you away. The first time I did it, I was shaking my head in amazement afterwards.


--------------------
Subterranean Hermes, guardian of my father's realms,
Become my saviour and my ally, in answer to my prayer.
For I am come and do return to this my land.
- Aristophanes, The Frogs.


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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22271891 - 09/21/15 10:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Are you lazy or scared? It really sounds like one of the two. Or both.




It's fear. Fear has been my greatest enemy.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinespookman
Toad-licker

Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 95
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22272071 - 09/21/15 11:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Everyone is afraid, at some point. The secret is to Feel The Fear And Do It Anyway.


--------------------
Subterranean Hermes, guardian of my father's realms,
Become my saviour and my ally, in answer to my prayer.
For I am come and do return to this my land.
- Aristophanes, The Frogs.


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OfflineEggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 3,097
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: spookman]
    #22272099 - 09/21/15 11:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)





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InvisibleBayerPhi
Always Learning

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 1,884
Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22272300 - 09/22/15 12:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Are you lazy or scared? It really sounds like one of the two. Or both.




It's fear. Fear has been my greatest enemy.





Oh, yes. The Fear, I know the fear. One of the best teachers as the rewards come after facing the fear.


--------------------
Μανθάνων μὴ κάμνε

:alert: Mycology Fundamentals and Misc. Info :mushroom:

:chemistry: Stains, Reagents, and Media :alert:

Tradelist


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Offlinespookman
Toad-licker

Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 95
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: BayerPhi]
    #22272751 - 09/22/15 06:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BayerPhi said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Are you lazy or scared? It really sounds like one of the two. Or both.




It's fear. Fear has been my greatest enemy.





Oh, yes. The Fear, I know the fear. One of the best teachers as the rewards come after facing the fear.



:thumbup:


--------------------
Subterranean Hermes, guardian of my father's realms,
Become my saviour and my ally, in answer to my prayer.
For I am come and do return to this my land.
- Aristophanes, The Frogs.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
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Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 10,026
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Eggtimer]
    #22273009 - 09/22/15 08:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Eggtimer said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:

Wrong. I have greater peace of mind not giving a shot about humans suffering. As for duty, who decides that? You? There is no calling for humans to help each other out. As for an inner voice, that very well could just be a deceiver. In fact by going to against mine I have avoided disasters. The downside to not giving a shot is that the good stuff goes with it though. But I'm beginning to wonder if that's a good thing.




You get to avoid problems but this keeps you in chains. It keeps your mind running in loops of anxiety and regret.

By inner voice I should of said highest self. You are the listener not the thinker.
There's a big difference in life when you know you know you observe your thoughts but aren't them.


Most animals have built in empathy for their own kind but humans by seeing only their differences miss their unity. Unity is the bias for compassion and love where noticing difference is the bias for discrimination.
Even rats.
http://scienceblog.com/78369/rats-will-try-to-save-members-of-their-own-species-from-drowning/#Wcc84zmV02Ciio7M.97


I know it's a lot of reading but this kind of stuff really helped me to understand.
-Erwin Schroedinger
Quote:

we are faced with the following remarkable…situation. While the stuff from which our world picture is built is yielded exclusively from the sense organs as organs of the mind, so that every man’s world picture is and always remains a construct of his mind and cannot be proved to have any other existence, yet the conscious mind itself remains a stranger within that construct, it has no living space in it, you can spot it nowhere in space.




Quote:

Suffering is forgetting who you really are.

We suffer when we don’t see this completeness – this intimacy – within the present experience. When we don’t see that every wave that’s presently appearing is part of the ocean and therefore allowed in the ocean, we start trying to escape this moment to attempt to reach the next moment. We experience ourselves as not whole or somehow broken so we attempt to move away from this moment. In truth, that movement is not actually possible but we try anyway because that’s how we are programmed. We try to move away from this moment to get to the next moment, to tomorrow or next year or to ten years time. We start to use time to achieve this. This is the origin of suffering. We try to escape what’s happening now. We try to run away from aspects of our present experience. We try to escape these thoughts, sensations and feelings and get to a future place where things will be better. That’s the movement of suffering.

Within suffering you’ll always find seeking. Seeking is the basic mechanism behind all of our suffering. We label certain elements of experience ‘bad’ or ‘negative’ or ‘dark’ or ‘dangerous’ or ‘unhealthy’ and that’s because of our conditioning. We have been conditioned to label things as ‘fear’, ‘sadness’, ‘anger’, and do on, and to judge these as negative, or not-okay, or bad, or sinful – basically as expressions of incompleteness, as threats to completeness. Because we don’t seethe completeness in these waves, because we can’t find the ocean within these so-called ‘negative’ waves, we try to escape them and that movement ‘away from’ creates the suffering. Then we create stories and identities around this suffering: ‘Oh, I’m a victim of my suffering. I’m a victim of fear and pain! Why is this happening to me? How can I escape this experience?‘

Suffering is a great teacher. Maybe it’s the best teacher but we often don’t see that, because we don’t realise what suffering really is. Normally, we do all sorts of things to avoid, deny and numb our suffering. We take medication, drink alcohol or try to distract ourselves. Of course, there’s ultimately nothing with doing these things either! But suffering is always an opportunity; it’s an invitation to discover the completeness in what you are running away from. Which aspects of your experience right now are not okay? Which waves (thoughts, sensations, and feelings) of the ocean are being rejected right now? Which waves are not being seen as part of the ocean? Basically, what are you at war with? This is always the question that suffering leads you to.

Within the experience of suffering you’ll always find seeking. You can believe as much as you like that you’re not seeking, or that you are free from the self, but whenever there’s suffering there’s seeking. It’s the story of ‘me’ looking for something, escaping something; it’s the story of incompleteness or of feeling that there’s something wrong with you. So, the invitation – not a demand – is to take a look at what you are at war with right now. What’s the story? What are the images you are trying to hold up? What are you defending? What are you rejecting? What are you running away from? Look a little deeper. Perhaps these images of yourself are not who you really are. Maybe these stories don’t define you.

We suffer when we try to hold up images of ourselves – ‘I’m strong, I’m enlightened, I’m a success, I’m loving, I’m kind, I’m happy’ – which conflict with life as it is. And in the end, all images conflict with life as it is – no image can match this moment. This moment is the fire that burns up all images. In this moment there could be pain, sadness, fear –any image that says that what’s appearing shouldn’t be appearing, that you should be happy, or free from pain, is a false image.





Quote:

If we understand awareness as the immediate and indefinable state of
being aware
, then we can begin to comprehend the Indian concept of
consciousness
as theconstant state in all changing states of awareness. Just as the principle of theconservation of matter in the West holds that matter is never limited to any of itsapparent forms or bodies, so consciousness is never limited to any of its subject states.Thus, as death of the body in materialism is not the death of matter, so the death of egostates which arise from ideas of
my, mine
is not consciousness. This is where the idea of
Karma, Samsara
(‘wheel of suffering’), and
re-birth
originate. The Axial Age, in India, as with the Greeks, was a period in which the first greatquestions as to the nature of the world and the place of
human awareness
in it wereasked. In India many of these questions were directed toward the nature of the
knowing self
, and only thereafter toward the knowable and known object world. The Indian worldview is one in which consciousness or the potential for awareness of one’s self and of theworld of objects is a unifying and central concern. It is subject awareness whichproduces the distinctions of same and different, similar and dissimilar in conceptions.




Quote:

rom this perspective, consciousness or‘being conscious’ is ultimately both a ‘way of awareness’ and that of which one ‘isaware. This explanation is often illustrated with a
dreamer—dream analogy
. In thedream different things appear and different events occur.. However, the dreamer and dream are one.. This approach is analogous to that of the
Upanisads---
but in the case of the Universe itself, it is the dream of
Brahman as Cosmic Consciousness.
The Upanisads
are the texts of unknown forest mystics of the 7th– 2ndCenturies BCE.
Asimilar position is found in the
Bhagavad Gita, and the Vedanta ---Mimamsa school of philosophy.
This view holds that subject and object are both different aspects of Brahman or
Cosmic Consciousness. The individual human aspect of  Brahman is the  Atman or individual breath.
If one takes the external world for a multiplicity of objects, and assumes one is unique this is the result of an illusion, or
Maya. As the Upanisads
consistently assert, when you look at others and the world around you, remember “Tattwam asi” “That art thou!







As someone else stated, I too have liked your posts.  What I have very much not enjoyed is you not posting your sources the vast majority of time. There were only 3 or 4 that I saw out of all of your quotes.  As far as I know, this is required by the rules but just for the sake of clarity alone would you please revise your posts and henceforth post the links for the things you share?


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineEggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 3,097
Last seen: 4 days, 2 hours
Re: The answer lies within? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #22273346 - 09/22/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

HagbardCeline said:


As someone else stated, I too have liked your posts.  What I have very much not enjoyed is you not posting your sources the vast majority of time. There were only 3 or 4 that I saw out of all of your quotes.  As far as I know, this is required by the rules but just for the sake of clarity alone would you please revise your posts and henceforth post the links for the things you share?




Sorry
Some of it is from books I copied quotes out of and I keep a unorganized collection on my computer.

Sources don't matter that much to me it's what is said not who said for me personally.
At the end of the day all word knowledge is futile. It can never express experience like experience can.

http://transmissiononline.org/issue/awareness-as-phenomenology/article/the-phenomenology-of-timelessawareness-as-vajra-kumara
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966842X04001386
https://www.academia.edu/766039/Philosophical_and_Scientific_Roots_in_the_Axial_Age_in_Greece_India_and_China_800-200_BCE
http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Consciousness
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-mind/
http://diginole.lib.fsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3027&context=etd


Edited by Eggtimer (09/22/15 10:13 AM)


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 10,026
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Eggtimer]
    #22276367 - 09/22/15 09:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Sources matter a great deal to me, especially in these matters.  Context is absolutely necessary to understanding quotes such as you've posted.  But perhaps I simply appreciated the style in which your quote was written and I wanted to inquire further.

Also, consider this - spiritual types of knowledge seem to posses a longevity compelling their inspection long after their contemporary works have fallen out of favor.  A story about the intricacies of life 400 years ago bear little in relation to how I live but spiritual knowledge mostly transcends time.  Even if these posts don't survive here on the Shroomery, there are a number of internet machinations which have scanned, stored, and reposted the information contained within.  Someone a 100 years in the future might have no way of understanding such a small segment without the surrounding material from which you pull.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineEggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 3,097
Last seen: 4 days, 2 hours
Re: The answer lies within? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #22277287 - 09/23/15 01:41 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

HagbardCeline said:
Sources matter a great deal to me, especially in these matters.  Context is absolutely necessary to understanding quotes such as you've posted.  But perhaps I simply appreciated the style in which your quote was written and I wanted to inquire further.

Also, consider this - spiritual types of knowledge seem to posses a longevity compelling their inspection long after their contemporary works have fallen out of favor.  A story about the intricacies of life 400 years ago bear little in relation to how I live but spiritual knowledge mostly transcends time.  Even if these posts don't survive here on the Shroomery, there are a number of internet machinations which have scanned, stored, and reposted the information contained within.  Someone a 100 years in the future might have no way of understanding such a small segment without the surrounding material from which you pull.




You make a good point. I just need to stop being lazy :lol:


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