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BayerPhi
Always Learning

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 1,884
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Thanatos10]
#22272300 - 09/22/15 12:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanatos10 said:
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Jokeshopbeard said: Are you lazy or scared? It really sounds like one of the two. Or both.
It's fear. Fear has been my greatest enemy.
Oh, yes. The Fear, I know the fear. One of the best teachers as the rewards come after facing the fear.
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spookman
Toad-licker

Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 95
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: BayerPhi]
#22272751 - 09/22/15 06:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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BayerPhi said:
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Thanatos10 said:
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Jokeshopbeard said: Are you lazy or scared? It really sounds like one of the two. Or both.
It's fear. Fear has been my greatest enemy.
Oh, yes. The Fear, I know the fear. One of the best teachers as the rewards come after facing the fear.
-------------------- Subterranean Hermes, guardian of my father's realms, Become my saviour and my ally, in answer to my prayer. For I am come and do return to this my land. - Aristophanes, The Frogs.
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HagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher



Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 10,026
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 19 days, 13 hours
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Eggtimer]
#22273009 - 09/22/15 08:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Eggtimer said:
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Thanatos10 said:
Wrong. I have greater peace of mind not giving a shot about humans suffering. As for duty, who decides that? You? There is no calling for humans to help each other out. As for an inner voice, that very well could just be a deceiver. In fact by going to against mine I have avoided disasters. The downside to not giving a shot is that the good stuff goes with it though. But I'm beginning to wonder if that's a good thing.
You get to avoid problems but this keeps you in chains. It keeps your mind running in loops of anxiety and regret.
By inner voice I should of said highest self. You are the listener not the thinker. There's a big difference in life when you know you know you observe your thoughts but aren't them.
Most animals have built in empathy for their own kind but humans by seeing only their differences miss their unity. Unity is the bias for compassion and love where noticing difference is the bias for discrimination. Even rats. http://scienceblog.com/78369/rats-will-try-to-save-members-of-their-own-species-from-drowning/#Wcc84zmV02Ciio7M.97
I know it's a lot of reading but this kind of stuff really helped me to understand. -Erwin Schroedinger
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we are faced with the following remarkable…situation. While the stuff from which our world picture is built is yielded exclusively from the sense organs as organs of the mind, so that every man’s world picture is and always remains a construct of his mind and cannot be proved to have any other existence, yet the conscious mind itself remains a stranger within that construct, it has no living space in it, you can spot it nowhere in space.
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Suffering is forgetting who you really are.
We suffer when we don’t see this completeness – this intimacy – within the present experience. When we don’t see that every wave that’s presently appearing is part of the ocean and therefore allowed in the ocean, we start trying to escape this moment to attempt to reach the next moment. We experience ourselves as not whole or somehow broken so we attempt to move away from this moment. In truth, that movement is not actually possible but we try anyway because that’s how we are programmed. We try to move away from this moment to get to the next moment, to tomorrow or next year or to ten years time. We start to use time to achieve this. This is the origin of suffering. We try to escape what’s happening now. We try to run away from aspects of our present experience. We try to escape these thoughts, sensations and feelings and get to a future place where things will be better. That’s the movement of suffering.
Within suffering you’ll always find seeking. Seeking is the basic mechanism behind all of our suffering. We label certain elements of experience ‘bad’ or ‘negative’ or ‘dark’ or ‘dangerous’ or ‘unhealthy’ and that’s because of our conditioning. We have been conditioned to label things as ‘fear’, ‘sadness’, ‘anger’, and do on, and to judge these as negative, or not-okay, or bad, or sinful – basically as expressions of incompleteness, as threats to completeness. Because we don’t seethe completeness in these waves, because we can’t find the ocean within these so-called ‘negative’ waves, we try to escape them and that movement ‘away from’ creates the suffering. Then we create stories and identities around this suffering: ‘Oh, I’m a victim of my suffering. I’m a victim of fear and pain! Why is this happening to me? How can I escape this experience?‘
Suffering is a great teacher. Maybe it’s the best teacher but we often don’t see that, because we don’t realise what suffering really is. Normally, we do all sorts of things to avoid, deny and numb our suffering. We take medication, drink alcohol or try to distract ourselves. Of course, there’s ultimately nothing with doing these things either! But suffering is always an opportunity; it’s an invitation to discover the completeness in what you are running away from. Which aspects of your experience right now are not okay? Which waves (thoughts, sensations, and feelings) of the ocean are being rejected right now? Which waves are not being seen as part of the ocean? Basically, what are you at war with? This is always the question that suffering leads you to.
Within the experience of suffering you’ll always find seeking. You can believe as much as you like that you’re not seeking, or that you are free from the self, but whenever there’s suffering there’s seeking. It’s the story of ‘me’ looking for something, escaping something; it’s the story of incompleteness or of feeling that there’s something wrong with you. So, the invitation – not a demand – is to take a look at what you are at war with right now. What’s the story? What are the images you are trying to hold up? What are you defending? What are you rejecting? What are you running away from? Look a little deeper. Perhaps these images of yourself are not who you really are. Maybe these stories don’t define you.
We suffer when we try to hold up images of ourselves – ‘I’m strong, I’m enlightened, I’m a success, I’m loving, I’m kind, I’m happy’ – which conflict with life as it is. And in the end, all images conflict with life as it is – no image can match this moment. This moment is the fire that burns up all images. In this moment there could be pain, sadness, fear –any image that says that what’s appearing shouldn’t be appearing, that you should be happy, or free from pain, is a false image.
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If we understand awareness as the immediate and indefinable state of being aware , then we can begin to comprehend the Indian concept of consciousness as theconstant state in all changing states of awareness. Just as the principle of theconservation of matter in the West holds that matter is never limited to any of itsapparent forms or bodies, so consciousness is never limited to any of its subject states.Thus, as death of the body in materialism is not the death of matter, so the death of egostates which arise from ideas of my, mine is not consciousness. This is where the idea of Karma, Samsara (‘wheel of suffering’), and re-birth originate. The Axial Age, in India, as with the Greeks, was a period in which the first greatquestions as to the nature of the world and the place of human awareness in it wereasked. In India many of these questions were directed toward the nature of the knowing self , and only thereafter toward the knowable and known object world. The Indian worldview is one in which consciousness or the potential for awareness of one’s self and of theworld of objects is a unifying and central concern. It is subject awareness whichproduces the distinctions of same and different, similar and dissimilar in conceptions.
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rom this perspective, consciousness or‘being conscious’ is ultimately both a ‘way of awareness’ and that of which one ‘isaware. This explanation is often illustrated with a dreamer—dream analogy . In thedream different things appear and different events occur.. However, the dreamer and dream are one.. This approach is analogous to that of the Upanisads--- but in the case of the Universe itself, it is the dream of Brahman as Cosmic Consciousness. The Upanisads are the texts of unknown forest mystics of the 7th– 2ndCenturies BCE. Asimilar position is found in the Bhagavad Gita, and the Vedanta ---Mimamsa school of philosophy. This view holds that subject and object are both different aspects of Brahman or Cosmic Consciousness. The individual human aspect of Brahman is the Atman or individual breath. If one takes the external world for a multiplicity of objects, and assumes one is unique this is the result of an illusion, or Maya. As the Upanisads consistently assert, when you look at others and the world around you, remember “Tattwam asi” “That art thou!
As someone else stated, I too have liked your posts. What I have very much not enjoyed is you not posting your sources the vast majority of time. There were only 3 or 4 that I saw out of all of your quotes. As far as I know, this is required by the rules but just for the sake of clarity alone would you please revise your posts and henceforth post the links for the things you share?
-------------------- I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine
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Eggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 3,097
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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HagbardCeline said:
As someone else stated, I too have liked your posts. What I have very much not enjoyed is you not posting your sources the vast majority of time. There were only 3 or 4 that I saw out of all of your quotes. As far as I know, this is required by the rules but just for the sake of clarity alone would you please revise your posts and henceforth post the links for the things you share?
Sorry Some of it is from books I copied quotes out of and I keep a unorganized collection on my computer.
Sources don't matter that much to me it's what is said not who said for me personally. At the end of the day all word knowledge is futile. It can never express experience like experience can.
http://transmissiononline.org/issue/awareness-as-phenomenology/article/the-phenomenology-of-timelessawareness-as-vajra-kumara http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966842X04001386 https://www.academia.edu/766039/Philosophical_and_Scientific_Roots_in_the_Axial_Age_in_Greece_India_and_China_800-200_BCE http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Consciousness http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-mind/ http://diginole.lib.fsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3027&context=etd
Edited by Eggtimer (09/22/15 10:13 AM)
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HagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher



Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 10,026
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 19 days, 13 hours
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Re: The answer lies within? [Re: Eggtimer]
#22276367 - 09/22/15 09:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sources matter a great deal to me, especially in these matters. Context is absolutely necessary to understanding quotes such as you've posted. But perhaps I simply appreciated the style in which your quote was written and I wanted to inquire further.
Also, consider this - spiritual types of knowledge seem to posses a longevity compelling their inspection long after their contemporary works have fallen out of favor. A story about the intricacies of life 400 years ago bear little in relation to how I live but spiritual knowledge mostly transcends time. Even if these posts don't survive here on the Shroomery, there are a number of internet machinations which have scanned, stored, and reposted the information contained within. Someone a 100 years in the future might have no way of understanding such a small segment without the surrounding material from which you pull.
-------------------- I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine
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Eggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 3,097
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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HagbardCeline said: Sources matter a great deal to me, especially in these matters. Context is absolutely necessary to understanding quotes such as you've posted. But perhaps I simply appreciated the style in which your quote was written and I wanted to inquire further.
Also, consider this - spiritual types of knowledge seem to posses a longevity compelling their inspection long after their contemporary works have fallen out of favor. A story about the intricacies of life 400 years ago bear little in relation to how I live but spiritual knowledge mostly transcends time. Even if these posts don't survive here on the Shroomery, there are a number of internet machinations which have scanned, stored, and reposted the information contained within. Someone a 100 years in the future might have no way of understanding such a small segment without the surrounding material from which you pull.
You make a good point. I just need to stop being lazy
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