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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #22254378 - 09/18/15 02:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Rebelutionsssss said:
treatment isnt really an option, it would ruin my career. i just need to give this my all and substitute with kratom. if i can make it days without a drink im sure i can turn that into only weekends and that into only one day a week. i liked the one drink a day idea and ive actually done that before for months




Yeah, HIPAA protected medical treatments and alcoholics anonymous would certainly ruin your career, unlike being an alcoholic. :smirk: That's totally not an excuse or anything.  I'm sure you'll start that one drink per day plan after this bottle, right?


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22254392 - 09/18/15 02:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

This isn't directed at you, nor do I disagree with the rest of what you said, I've seen it mentioned more than once so now I'm going to give my opinion on it.

I would never recommend anyone go to AA. Especially when anonymity matters. Anyone can out you at any time, and there is no legal repercussion to doing so. It's not mandated like a therapist or psychiatrist. It's just some thing that everyone has largely agreed to. Just because it's in the name, doesn't mean it is. From my experiences (take note of this, because I'm sure someone's gonna wanna tell me how I'm wrong) most everyone that I've met (there have been a lot from many different places, not just one particular "group") who goes is a giant self-righteous asshole (We have one on these very forums). The meetings I had to attend while on probation were no better. It's just a cult. If you don't do everything their way or question any of it, they all turn hostile to you. They treat you as a subhuman. You can't even not believe in God, or they get hostile. You have to play along and agree and believe in everything they do and say. If you aren't willing to conform in every way possible to the mass, you will be treated like an outsider and unwelcome.

"It works for some people". Yes, but so does cold turkey or turning exclusively to religion. The only way any method is going to work, is if you believe it will work and you make it work. There is no magical quit solution. In the end it's all on you. Whatever makes it work for you, go for it. AA is hardly the miracle cure, and the environment of that shit makes it far less successful than it could be if it actually were like what people make it out to be. For a bunch of ex-addicts who struggled to overcome it, they sure aren't very tolerant of new comers having trouble getting and staying on track. You can have 6 months sober, the second you admit you had so much as a sip of a beer a couple weeks back, they start actually getting angry at you and telling you what a worthless piece of shit you are, how you wasted "their time" and either need to do what they say or piss off somewhere else.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #22254454 - 09/18/15 03:56 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

the first step to quitting alcohol is quitting the shroomery:obama:


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisibleInto The Woods
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: Rebelutionsssss] * 1
    #22254537 - 09/18/15 05:01 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

From someone who's been in familiar shoes,

If you really want to quit, you can. Nobody is past the capability to exercise willpower.

Think about why you want to stop, how the habit is holding you back and the regrets you might have if you never quit. Then stick it out. It might be tough, but you'll be stronger for it.

You don't have to quit forever if you don't want to, I mean, once you come out the other side and you're on top of yourself, you might find it perfectly fine to have a drink now and again and not feel so compelled to do it all the time. I believe moderation and self control is better than complete abstinence, because it makes a bigger deal of it and therefore may be more difficult to maintain.

Drinking regularly was easy for you, drinking less regularly can be just as easy for you once you get used to it.

On a sidenote, iirc it takes approximately 6 weeks to break and form new neural pathways in the brain (breaking old habits/forming new habits).

It certainly gets easier, it's like getting used to anything else. Keep yourself extra busy in the meantime. When you catch yourself thinking about drinking, stop yourself. Break the tangent, just do something else, think about something else. Try taking up a new hobby or two.

I quit drinking and smoking on the same day, drove me nuts. I started a workout routine, that helped tremendously. Got further into vaping to help the cig cravings, it turned into a bit of a hobby. I started looking for ways to make more money, reading more books, even watching more TV series, bought a new laptop and started playing around with linux, these are just a few examples. Little things that fill up spare time. After a while it felt more as though, rather than doing more things to keep myself busy and my mind off drinking, that I was just living my life in small ways the drinking had been stopping me from caring or being motivated enough to do before. The motivation to stop drinking and filling up time eventually just became motivation to do other things for the sake of interest. Without even realizing it, a weight on my shoulders slowly disappeared. I didn't quit drinking all together, I did have a couple of occasions of what one might consider relapse, picking up a bottle of quality scotch and ending up drinking the whole thing over the course of a night (x2), but needless to say, I felt shitty enough about it to make more of an effort not to make it a regular habit. It's been quite some time now, I spend most of my days without a drink and it's no big deal to me anymore, and when I do drink I can stop at a few and think nothing of it. Hell, I'm drinking a guinness as I type this :lol:, I'll have one, maybe two more before I turn in for the night and I probably won't bother tomorrow.

The bigger a deal you make of something, the bigger deal it becomes. If you want to quit, just quit. The harder you tell yourself it is to use your willpower, the harder it becomes. If you believe it's easy, you know it's the right thing for yourself and you want to do it, despite maybe being a bit bumpy at first, it'll be as easy as you make it.

That's my approach and it works for me. :shrug:


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OfflineHemuli
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: makaveli8x8] * 1
    #22254561 - 09/18/15 05:25 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Ibogaine treatment. Its a huge commitment but it could save your life.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: Hemuli]
    #22254565 - 09/18/15 05:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomslip said:
This isn't directed at you, nor do I disagree with the rest of what you said, I've seen it mentioned more than once so now I'm going to give my opinion on it.

I would never recommend anyone go to AA. Especially when anonymity matters. Anyone can out you at any time, and there is no legal repercussion to doing so. It's not mandated like a therapist or psychiatrist. It's just some thing that everyone has largely agreed to. Just because it's in the name, doesn't mean it is. From my experiences (take note of this, because I'm sure someone's gonna wanna tell me how I'm wrong) most everyone that I've met (there have been a lot from many different places, not just one particular "group") who goes is a giant self-righteous asshole (We have one on these very forums). The meetings I had to attend while on probation were no better. It's just a cult. If you don't do everything their way or question any of it, they all turn hostile to you. They treat you as a subhuman. You can't even not believe in God, or they get hostile. You have to play along and agree and believe in everything they do and say. If you aren't willing to conform in every way possible to the mass, you will be treated like an outsider and unwelcome.

"It works for some people". Yes, but so does cold turkey or turning exclusively to religion. The only way any method is going to work, is if you believe it will work and you make it work. There is no magical quit solution. In the end it's all on you. Whatever makes it work for you, go for it. AA is hardly the miracle cure, and the environment of that shit makes it far less successful than it could be if it actually were like what people make it out to be. For a bunch of ex-addicts who struggled to overcome it, they sure aren't very tolerant of new comers having trouble getting and staying on track. You can have 6 months sober, the second you admit you had so much as a sip of a beer a couple weeks back, they start actually getting angry at you and telling you what a worthless piece of shit you are, how you wasted "their time" and either need to do what they say or piss off somewhere else.




From what I understand it's about finding a good group, even the right group within a group.  Nobody is going to out you that is just being paranoid, and any faults you find with the way people there treated you is just because they are human like you.  There's good and bad.

It's not a cult.  It is a loosely structured self-help community.  Some people do use it to push religion, but that isn't everybody there, and there's similar groups where you can pick up a support network that aren't AA.  It's definitely better than nothing, especially if you've tried everything else and nothing worked.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22254592 - 09/18/15 05:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It's not being paranoid when it's happened. I haven't heard/read a ton of stories on it, but it does happen. The last one I heard: http://www.wlox.com/story/28801593/report-evans-mom-arrested-after-telling-aa-sponsor-about-sex-with-minors. Kind of an extreme case, I've heard more that weren't that extreme. But that backs up what I said. It's not really anonymous and anyone can expose you at any time with little or no repercussion. When there aren't repercussions like losing your license to practice, people tend to give less of a shit about breaking the accepted anonymity the name of the program implies.

I'm not speaking of the groups that aren't religious based. I'm talking entirely AA. I have 0 experience with the non religious centered ones and to my knowledge have never met someone who was part of one.

As for there being good and bad, yes. I'm sure there are some decent people out there going to AA, but my experiences have shown me literally 100% are self righteous jack asses. You can't even talk about how "Bad" your addiction was, because they have to brag how much hardcore they were. This is not said in a "if I can do it you can do it" support way. It's a "I'm better than you" attitude. They always have to top the other person. "You were only drinking a 12 pack a night? Shit son, I was drinking a 12 pack in 6 hours and chasing it with an 8 ball".

People love to sit there and stroke their own ego. They constantly try to convince themselves they are a far better person than someone else, simply because they managed to quit a more severe habit. Though I will say I don't really blame them exactly. In drug culture it's pretty common to have to outdo everyone else and make it seem as if you're the most hardcore user. They probably had that attitude long before they went to AA.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22254603 - 09/18/15 05:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I find your use of the word self-righteous in that context interesting, but hey, I can't dispute your experience.

Somebody could look in your window at night and tell your boss that you jerk off every night, but it isn't likely to happen.  If you are part of a small community that would be judgmental I think in some cases it would be better to deal with that and have a support group than lead a double life and try to maintain on your own.

I've been to meetings that were huge and a mess with a bunch of former drunks vying for attention, and I've been to little meetings in some quiet church basement where good people gather and support each-other.  Both are AA.  I had to go because of probation too, and it's not really my thing either, but it's not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.  I'm thinking that you maybe even do have a bad attitude :smirk:


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22254620 - 09/18/15 06:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not making it out to be anything.. I'm stating absolute facts of my experiences. And my experiences go much further than just the one group of people I had to deal with as ordered by probation.

As for the jerking off thing, that's just totally irrelevant. No one is going to fire you over jerking off in your home (unless you work for weird Christian business like Hobby Lobby or Chick Fil A, then it might be a problem). However someone telling your boss you're an alcoholic can have a bad impact.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22254627 - 09/18/15 06:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Basically, I suggest other alternatives. There are many. I would never personally recommend AA. If noting else works, try it out, who knows, maybe it'll work for you. But I'd advise taking every other path available before going there.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22254661 - 09/18/15 06:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think if you were in a position where you really were trying to quit drinking, you would be able to find a group that works for you.  That's one of the benefits of AA being so ubiquitous.  Plenty of people take the AA model and adapt it to suit their own needs.  I'm not really one for a big group where you need to be super aggressive to be heard, but the small group that I went to was filled with kind and thoughtful people from all walks of life that just shared this common issue.  Even if I don't still go, there were people there who were older and wiser than me, and it was overall an uplifting and inspirational experience despite me not wanting to be there.  They were the furthest thing from what you describe.

I think if you're really worried about people finding out you're an alcoholic, you're not ready to stop.  It's not that big a deal.  I've had bosses that will look down on me for not going out and drinking at the bar with them, but that's their problem.  If you're trying to be sober you have to put yourself first.  There are serious life and health concerns from alcoholism, and you might never get there, but who knows.  Plenty of people do.

I would encourage anyone who is curious to go check it out.  They're usually happy to let people sit in and observe, and if you don't like the people there, I'm sure it won't work that well.  There are groups however that are 100% regular people who are doing the right thing by their family, and have found friends who they would do anything to help in AA.  I can't imagine a group that is as aggressive and judgmental as you're describing, but I'm sure they exist.  I have my own mixed feelings, but I don't see the harm in people checking it out.  It's one of the few organizations that is free and anyone who would look down on someone for being in AA, boss or otherwise, is an asshole who doesn't deserve the time of day.


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InvisibleSoupSandwich
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22254676 - 09/18/15 06:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

A little late to this thread, but tapering has kept me alive and my brain less damaged than it wouldve been. Hope the following information helps:


http://www.hamsnetwork.org/taper/

Quote:

Can people successfully use alcohol to taper off?

An unqualified YES. People have been using alcohol to taper off from alcohol since the dawn of history. Withdrawal medications are a recent invention. The idea that tapering cannot be done is a myth created by the alcohol treatment industry.

How do I know if I need to taper off?

If when you stop drinking your hands are visibly shaky, you begin to sweat a lot, you have a rapid or irregular pulse, or your blood pressure is very high then it is advisable to taper off alcohol and not quit cold turkey. You can taper off by using alcohol or by getting prescription meds from your doctor. A pulse of over 100 beats per minute is a definite danger sign.




BTW< my hands NEVER shook. I mean I would be vomiting bile for DAYS, hallucinating (audio and visual), etc etc, but hands never shook. Which sucks when you're in rehab and they wont give you meds simply because your hands arent shaking! Fucking sucks bad. :frown:


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #22254681 - 09/18/15 06:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Can they really tell the difference between DTs and someone just shaking their hands intentionally?  I feel like that would be easy enough to fake, but I understand if you were just trying to take the honest approach too.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22254687 - 09/18/15 06:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

May be an asshole, but in the end if it has a negative impact on your employment, it really doesn't matter if he's an asshole or not. In some instances they would completely justified in firing you for "admitting" you have a problem with drugs/alcohol when certain criteria are met. There are plenty of jobs out there where literally dozens, hundreds and even thousands of people's lives are in your hands. If you screw up and get people killed, it's going to be a huge problem. It's a liability and a lot of people are fired over being liabilities.

The ADA covers alcoholism, but only goes so far as to offer a period where the addicted can get clean. People who relapse or refuse to stop, can be fired. So in and of itself having someone tell your boss can't just get you flat out fired. You can make an earnest effort, but if it continues to be an issue, they are justified in firing you for it.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22254699 - 09/18/15 06:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

This is pretty strange hypothetical territory that we're getting into.  In my opinion if 1000s of lives are in your hands whatever is necessary should be done.  I would say maybe even leave that job if you're intent on continuing drinking.


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InvisibleSoupSandwich
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22254716 - 09/18/15 06:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Can they really tell the difference between DTs and someone just shaking their hands intentionally?  I feel like that would be easy enough to fake, but I understand if you were just trying to take the honest approach too.




If you're really going through DTs, faking anything is at the bottom of your priorities. Also, I just kinda assumed they'd know what the fuck they're doing and take pity on me.

Instead, I was kept in a 56 degree room and only grudgingly given the most piss poor, weakest medicine. ( and that only after I started throwing shit around my room!0 Was told I'd see my doctor within an hour of admission, didnt see him until noon the next day and etc etc etc etc.

Signed myself out after two days....AND even after insurance paid 90%, we owe 900$!! For two days of abuse. Shit makes me sick. Sorry for going on...


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22254720 - 09/18/15 06:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It's only strange hypothetically because you're just focusing on thousands instead of the dozens or hundreds. Working in a refinery is a good example of requiring people of clear mind. Given the right circumstances (and they don't even have to be way out there or remote) there is literally dozens and even hundreds of lives depending on you NOT screwing up. Pilot is another.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Offlinesyncro

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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22254766 - 09/18/15 07:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Heavy drinkers/users can make intense spiritual practitioners if they can turn their binging in the right direction. Alcohol is low vibrational, painful poisonous shit.  It took me years but I'm clean and when I have time can develop extensive meditative practice. Something's gotta give.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #22254775 - 09/18/15 07:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You haven't reached the point where you are literally sick from drinking.  Once that point is achieved over a couple year period of stopping and restarting, you will perhaps decide to stop poisoning yourself.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineSunnyD
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Re: how do i stop drinking guys [Re: syncro] * 1
    #22254793 - 09/18/15 07:14 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Alcohol Is a shitty drug ime


Im surprised about the current addicts to it. but i guess i can see how someone could get addicted to drunkedness



Like its  been said. addiction can be  stopped. Takes alot of work of breaking that feel good habit


--------------------
:sunny::inlove::peyotespectrum::peyotespectrum::inlove::sunny:
And to everyone who thinks life is just a game,
Do you like the part you are playing?
This is the time in life I am living!
And I face each day with a smile :smile:
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