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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: The war on boys. [Re: SARAtonin]
    #22251548 - 09/17/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SARAtonin said:
Perhaps this will add some insight,
But I doubt it.





Fine whine.


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Invisibler.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.
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Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 745
Loc: ∅
Re: The war on boys. [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22251632 - 09/17/15 02:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Today is the first time I've heard of this lady, but she is potentially one of my favorite right-leaning voices I've heard in a very long time based on what I've seen. I will say that I disagree with her about the presentation of females within video games. Do I think we need to get rid of topless women and damsel type characters? Absolutely not. Even as a straight female, I enjoy those tropes. However, what I WOULD like to see is competent female characters alongside them. I want to see the Sarah Connors and the Tesses (from Last of Us) more often. Kickass female character that don't have time to be sexy, or that don't need to wear revealing clothing to do so. I greatly enjoy seeing those characters in video games and shows. I don't scowl every time we focus on girls' butts, but I DO scowl when we don't focus on anything else about them.


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One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail.
But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.


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InvisibleLackToast
Stranger
Registered: 08/28/10
Posts: 217
Re: The war on boys. [Re: r.lutece]
    #22251706 - 09/17/15 03:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I disagree, you are not the target audience of videogames. The target audience of videogames is males. Men and boys want to see visually appealing graphical characters, both men and women, dogs, alien, creatures, zombies etc. they want them to look good so the can delve into their fanatasies away from reality. We fantazise about hot chicks, not their emotions or character depth.

As long as there are two companies, one who makes emotionally strong women and a great game; and one who just adds more tits and ass,and an equally fun game. the second one will do better, and guys will pay to get more of that.


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
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Re: The war on boys. [Re: PLURAL]
    #22251713 - 09/17/15 03:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Treant said:
Is English not your first language?

I'm American, but not a father, although I have a father, we don't spend any time naked together though... Here hanging out naked with family is pretty abnormal and a rarity.



We have such a weak culture.


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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
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Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
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Re: The war on boys. [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #22251748 - 09/17/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Can't spell woman without man.

/:derail:


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Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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Invisibler.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.
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Re: The war on boys. [Re: LackToast] * 1
    #22251757 - 09/17/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I disagree on a number of levels. Male gamers certainly make up a larger percentage of total audience numbers, but if your game can appeal to 30% more gamers, and therefore generate a 30% increase in sales, why wouldn't you take advantage of that? As for women in games being EITHER hot or well-developed characters, I don't understand why those can't be one in the same. It's like I said, you don't have to take away the hot chicks. It's like porn: guys would rather see an attractive guy banging a hot chick, and girls would rather see hot chicks getting banged by attractive guys. Video games developers go to the time to develop male characters, so it really shouldn't be that much of a stretch to figure out female characters.

As for your comparison at the end, I'm obviously advocating the second of the two games: you yourself indicated that the second game was the same as the first (emotionally developed with character depth and already a great game) and just added tits and asses. I'm fully in support of that.


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One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail.
But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.


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InvisibleLackToast
Stranger
Registered: 08/28/10
Posts: 217
Re: The war on boys. [Re: r.lutece]
    #22251833 - 09/17/15 03:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

it doesnt matter youre missing the bigger picture here.

There are certainly a number of males intrested in male fashion. But i would not think to go tell macys how to run their business and tell them to expend more energy and move away recourses that make them a billion dollar industry just to cater the whims of a few.

Video games now and days get pumped out yearly, what would you have them do, bring in women who can develop strong female characters? A few questions, is there a demand (only by a few) how many women are vying for a job like this, is the company willing to test the waters as such, and can they implement it successfully, and how many of those women are even capable of writing a strong female character that isnt self serving?

I understand you want an equalized oppertunity for both men and women to enjoy videogames with cool characters. But what im saying is most guys dont want that, we just want fun games. And now a days, we dont care much for women barging in on our escape from society anyways, a lot in fact dislike it, and for good reasons, we are not stupid, most women arent introspective to the point of making us think theyre capable of being such a great interesting heroic persona, why do you have to demand we think otherwise, its pretty insulting to the mass amount of men who arent sheepishly stupid.


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Invisibler.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.
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Posts: 745
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Re: The war on boys. [Re: LackToast] * 1
    #22251888 - 09/17/15 03:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LackToast said:
I understand you want an equalized oppertunity for both men and women to enjoy videogames with cool characters. But what im saying is most guys dont want that, we just want fun games. And now a days, we dont care much for women barging in on our escape from society anyways, a lot in fact dislike it, and for good reasons, we are not stupid...




I am having trouble grasping why cool characters and fun games can't coexist. The fact is that the already do in a lot of games. I'm not suggesting that we should be completely reevaluating established games or series that have male-dominated casts and stories. GTA V for example would not work with a female as one of the three lead characters; the storyline is very brotherly. The same with CoD. But is it actually all that much to ask for it to be considered in newer titles? Hell, you don't even have to write the female characters differently from male characters. A lot of the complaint is that women are written as sex objects or damsels, when really, a lot of women just act like guys (until you get to personal relationships, but we've already established we don't want that in games). You don't need female writers to have a female character; the misconception here stems from the fact that female characters have to act like females, when they could just as easily be acting like people.

Quote:

...most women arent introspective to the point of making us think theyre capable of being such a great interesting heroic persona, why do you have to demand we think otherwise, its pretty insulting to the mass amount of men who arent sheepishly stupid.




I don't understand what it is you're saying here. Could you elaborate for me?


--------------------
One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail.
But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.


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InvisibleLackToast
Stranger
Registered: 08/28/10
Posts: 217
Re: The war on boys. [Re: r.lutece]
    #22252004 - 09/17/15 04:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Im pretty bad at doing quotes in quotes so ill adress your statement in 1. and your question in 2.

1. Personally i disagree, i want my action hero to be a believable action hero, i want my villians and enemies to act in a normal villainous and hatred manner. Likewise i want to see women act in a fashion we believe that women naturally act in, and since im the superhero trying to save a damsel in distress, id appreciate if she acted in a more female fashion rather than some strong willed androgynous character, what fun would that be?

Now since i clearly get that your insisting why can theyre be more characters like Bayonetta, or a female sypro maybe idk. To this i say because i go back to my original arguements, men are the ones producing it, they are going to be able to give a more realistic account from a male perspective naturally without much thought to small nuances in a males fantasy world, and in turn you get a better game. Which is what we are paying for a good game, not some pc social agenda game. But i can see this is important to you, if women want to have female characters who are regular and feel integrated properly in the game and story arch, then there needs to be more women attempting to join in the videogame industry, and with the purpose of expanding what men, the dominating force would like to see, and not just to change what they dont like about games. Although she wouldnt be a woman if she didnt try to change a mans perspective :tongue:

2. What i mean by this there are relative few women ive ever talked to in my life to lead me to believe there are such great capacities to what the average woman thinks, sexist maybe... but my perspective tends to line up with enough socially outcasted mens perspectives (read gamers) that i dont care to be pc right now. (And just so you know, this does not mean i think women are dumb. so please dont take it as such)

Im not saying there arent a lot out there, ive just never met them, or they never need to give me the time of day to prove me otherwise. The ones i did know like that were very down to earth and either late bloomers or much older.

On top of that the girls that do rely on theyre looks are ditzy, or bimbos, or just plain dumb. Miss america, and tits mcgee, are not fascinating and well developed minds, And yet theyre the ones we want to see in videogames. not the average opinionated woman.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
High on Spite
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Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
Re: The war on boys. [Re: r.lutece]
    #22252016 - 09/17/15 04:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

r.lutece said:
Today is the first time I've heard of this lady, but she is potentially one of my favorite right-leaning voices I've heard in a very long time based on what I've seen. I will say that I disagree with her about the presentation of females within video games. Do I think we need to get rid of topless women and damsel type characters? Absolutely not. Even as a straight female, I enjoy those tropes. However, what I WOULD like to see is competent female characters alongside them. I want to see the Sarah Connors and the Tesses (from Last of Us) more often. Kickass female character that don't have time to be sexy, or that don't need to wear revealing clothing to do so. I greatly enjoy seeing those characters in video games and shows. I don't scowl every time we focus on girls' butts, but I DO scowl when we don't focus on anything else about them.




Yeah compared to the average internet editorialist she is quite reasonable, and I try really hard to dislike her so that's saying something. 

I think Jim Sterling made an interesting and funny case recently on Quiet, a character in MGSV:



Sometimes it's just ridiculous, and I think most developers and gamers agree on this regardless of gender, but extreme feminists and their opponents love stirring the pot for some reason.  Nobody wants that, it's video games.


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InvisibleSARAtonin
Violent Dreams
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Registered: 09/28/11
Posts: 15,911
Loc: Deutschland
Re: The war on boys. [Re: Shiithead]
    #22252168 - 09/17/15 05:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shiithead said:
Can't spell woman without man.

/:derail:



Can't have man without woman. :wink:


--------------------
God kills indiscriminately and so shall we. For no creatures under God are as we are none so like him as ourselves.

Want to join a cult? Click for details…


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Invisibler.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.
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Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 745
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Re: The war on boys. [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22252195 - 09/17/15 05:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

@LackToast:

Well, I mean, there's part of the problem. Gamers think that women actually act like that. :rolleyes: I'm beginning to see the appeal of the average video game female. You don't want to play as a female unless she's quiet and nice to look at, and you don't want to save a female unless she makes you feel good about saving her. I'm not going to pretend that's not hilariously sexist, but I understand where you're coming from. It's more rewarding to be the masculine, conquering hero who gets the girl. That makes sense.

I agree with what you say about women in game development being the ones who need to be the change they want to see in the gaming world. We're starting to come full circle to the earlier conversation about the different career paths men and women choose. We're starting to see a broader range of jobs for all genders, so I'm sure that more women will in fact join the gaming industry. Please understand that just doing that is difficult; guys have been taught for centuries, much like yourself, that women don't have anything to add intellectually. As a result, these industries have turned into bro clubs. It's not only that we're just now figuring out that we need to encourage young girls that are interested in these fields, but we also have to teach our young boys, and our men, that girls can contribute just as well.

As far as changing a man's mind, well... we wouldn't have to try so hard if the male mind weren't so inflexible. :wink: All jokes aside, the genders are different; it's nice that this conversation can even be had now.

@moonrockmushy:

That was both hilarious and a good example of an "ohmygodwhatthefuck" piece of sexy gaming female. I think my favorite phrase was 'wobbly-boobed sex object', or something to that degree. Personally, since she was such a visual trophy to begin with, I think they should have made the nakedness the unlockable outfit. The explanation for her lack of clothing is absolutely hilarious. Seriously Hideo, you have the balls to make her do almost-nude yoga on an aircraft. Just have the balls for her to say, "I like wearing as little as possible." That would actually be almost believable.


--------------------
One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail.
But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.


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InvisibleLackToast
Stranger
Registered: 08/28/10
Posts: 217
Re: The war on boys. [Re: r.lutece]
    #22252429 - 09/17/15 05:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You WOULD think i am sexist and just want women to shut up and look nice.:smile: Look,I can only look and see how women act from afar, and make my own judgements, i do not control anyones actions. I can state my opinion that i dont find it believable hot women on average are "great character personas", and while i dont care one way or the other, i never force my opinion on women, because it would just be low level capacity rhetoric. i.e. sexist. however refering back to the first video, men from the time they are boys are not allowed to think and do as they are naturally inclined to if it doesnt suit societies narrative, which is that everyone is equal... Despite the fact that not a single individual is born equal.

If the power to control mens thoughts, isnt sexist i dont know what is.

I dont go around telling pixar and disney how to make theyre male characters more than what they are, because i know that theyre suppose to be for mainly little girls. Little girls know what they like, so do little boys, who grow up playing videogames.


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InvisibleMr.PhilCybin
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Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 11,642
Loc: Gnarnia
Re: The war on boys. [Re: LackToast]
    #22252434 - 09/17/15 05:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

nerds.



:haha:


--------------------
I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart.
I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: The war on boys. [Re: Mr.PhilCybin] * 1
    #22252445 - 09/17/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Some beta shit right there.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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InvisibleMr.PhilCybin
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Re: The war on boys. [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22252488 - 09/17/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

#betacusties


--------------------
I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart.
I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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InvisibleLackToast
Stranger
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Re: The war on boys. [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22252495 - 09/17/15 06:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

nigga what?


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InvisibleMr.PhilCybin
Master Baiter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 11,642
Loc: Gnarnia
Re: The war on boys. [Re: LackToast]
    #22252502 - 09/17/15 06:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.PhilCybin said:
nerds.



:haha:



Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Some beta shit right there.



Quote:

Mr.PhilCybin said:
#betacusties




--------------------
I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart.
I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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Invisibler.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.
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Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 745
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Re: The war on boys. [Re: LackToast]
    #22252532 - 09/17/15 06:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Both in response to your post and in the interest of returning the thread to its original topic, do you recall times in your schooling where you felt you were being "boxed in" about opinions you were allowed to hold about your studies, or ways you were allowed to behave? (This is a genuine question and not a challenge; it's a case where I had a different experience as a girl and I'm interested in hearing how these situations play out for boys. It really is not my intention to ever silence men's opinions; I love having these discussions in the hopes that all genders can learn something.) Lately it's been a commonly talked about issue as far as the ways girls felt they weren't allowed to do some things, but people don't usually touch on the ways that boys are limited similarly.

EDIT: This question is of course open to all the guys. Did your teachers hold you back in a memorable way from expressing yourselves? OP's video refers to this as a somewhat recent trend, but did anything strike you as something you saw in your own schooling?


--------------------
One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail.
But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.


Edited by r.lutece (09/17/15 06:19 PM)


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InvisibleLackToast
Stranger
Registered: 08/28/10
Posts: 217
Re: The war on boys. [Re: r.lutece]
    #22252596 - 09/17/15 06:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You speak for other men, and you used the word betacustie when you were trying to be cool...


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