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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Bitter Cactus] * 1
    #22251209 - 09/17/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:

Achillita said:
The majority of them aren't debilitating whatsoever.




I would guess one in five people with HPPD have severe HPPD, the rest learn to deal with it but it is still an annoyance.

It has nothing to do with maintaining and holding relationships. It can though. If it adversely affects your life in any way, which includes causing you stress or being annoyed by it, then it is a disorder.



No, it isn't. You don't understand the definition of a disorder. Seeing walls breathe and faces in the clouds- the seldom few times it happened, considering the enormous quantity of hallucinogens I consumed- was, for me, a cause for pleasant reminiscing rather than a cause for stress or annoyance. This is the case for many people with persistent perceptual changes. Anything you do in life causes your perception to change, not just taking drugs. This includes meditation, or religion, or falling in love. When you are in love, the world seems brighter. When you break up with someone, it seems dull and lifeless. A person only has a disorder when they meet the CRITERIA FOR HAVING A DISORDER.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: morrowasted]
    #22251214 - 09/17/15 01:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It is a disorder if it interferes with the well being of you life in general.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22251220 - 09/17/15 01:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

"...a syndrome characterized by clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognitive, emotion regulation, or behavior that reflects a dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental process underlying mental functioning. Mental disorders are usually associated with significant distress in social, occupational, or other important activities."


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: morrowasted]
    #22251237 - 09/17/15 01:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The disturbances interfere with work, school, social settings, or other areas.

Yep I agree with you.

Lots of people have symptoms HPPD, probably half of people that trip, but not everyone is bothered by it and has it effect their life. It does for me and I wish it were gone. You might enjoy it though.


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22251245 - 09/17/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Even if you are not bothered by it though, a new user needs to know that if he trips there is a good chance he will have persisting hallucinations for a very long time, whether or not these hallucinations interfere with his life is case by case.


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #22251278 - 09/17/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:

MajickMuffin said:
Can you prove to us that it does not discriminate at all? Should we call you All Knowing God?




Some people with really fucking bad habits/ mental illness trip a million times and don't get it. Other people that are really healthy get it after the first trip.

I think it is completely random. You spin the wheel and hope this trip you will not wake up with tracers and halos for the rest of your life.



Quote:

Rebelutionsssss said:
You get it from extremely tough experiences and mental breakdowns while tripping, now putting the thought that you may be stuck with psychedelic visions for the rest of your life is a good way to induce those bad thoughts and trips. I've met hundreds of people that take psychedelics and have never met one person that has it.

There's nothing good that can come of bringing that thought up because there's really no way to prevent it except for set and setting maybe.



that's the thing. it's about your mind. you are in control of it and you can stop and start your hppd I have incredibly minor hppd and I can activate it when I'm bored. I don't have any negative association with tripping so it's never a negative experience. but I've learned to love it and keep it at bay when needed.


--------------------
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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #22251284 - 09/17/15 01:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

That's cool for the majority of people suffering from these persistent hallucinations it is not true HPPD because it does not negatively effect them.

However, a good amount of trippers have these hallucinatons, and a subset of those people with those hallucinations really are negatively effected by it and wish it would go away (including myself).

I think all people in those groups deserved to be acknowledged.


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Invisibler.lutece
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22251294 - 09/17/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Okay, here's where I believe you're overplaying it. Implying that there is a "good chance" someone will develop HPPD as a new user is like saying there's a 50% chance they'll get it. That is simply not the case. If it were, you would see if far more prominently discussed in the forums. I'm not saying it doesn't happen; clearly it happens with enough incidence that its effects shouldn't be downplayed by those who've never experienced it. However, calling its likelihood a good chance is overselling the danger of HPPD and it cheapens the meaningful impact of any warning or advice you may have.


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One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail.
But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Bitter Cactus] * 1
    #22251296 - 09/17/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'll admit I only read the first page. Maybe its hell for some but I enjoy my HPPD. I first developed it around age 18 from heavy LSD use but when I went through a dry spell of close to 8 years it was quite diminished. Then i rediscovered my love of psyches and am happy to have it back. It never bothered me in the slightest.

Perhaps i am lucky as I was fully aware I could develop it well before I tried LSD and was undeterred. I imagine it would be less welcome by some types of people, especially those ignorant of the possibility in the first place. One more reason why prohibition is not the answer, education is.


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OfflineBozko
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: morrowasted]
    #22251299 - 09/17/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
A disorder is defined as

"...a syndrome characterized by clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognitive, emotion regulation, or behavior that reflects a dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental process underlying mental functioning. Mental disorders are usually associated with significant distress in social, occupational, or other important activities."

So, occasionally seeing walls breathe or feeling odd or seeing geometric patterns or faces in the rocks/clouds doesn't count as a disorder- which is the last letter in HPPD. It just means you have some lingering effects of your psychedelic use. HPPD only exists in people who have taken so many psychedelics that they can't maintain relationships or hold down jobs anymore. That is rare.




So up until you actually freak out about your non-abating visuals, you don't have HPPD! PERFECT! Woohoo for "clinically significant".


--------------------
ShadeOfDeepPurple said: I guess you don't get shamanism yet by the very fact that you describe a psychedelic as Mexican.


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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Bozko]
    #22251331 - 09/17/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

is this for real? i've been taking psychedelics for most of my life and i've heard a lot of bullshit about "flashbacks", but never bought into it.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: millzy]
    #22251357 - 09/17/15 01:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
is this for real? i've been taking psychedelics for most of my life and i've heard a lot of bullshit about "flashbacks", but never bought into it.



seriously, I have taken psychedelics hundreds of times and I can count the number of times I could identify the experience I was having as "psychedelic" when I was sober on one hand.

Bitter Cactus, I would not be surprised if you identify whatever perceptual changes you supposedly associate with psychedelic use as negative because you have suffered significant anhedonia and dysphoria as a result of a deficit in your mesolimbic dopamine pathways.

Furthermore, there is a significant likelihood that you are exacerbating the symptoms of whatever perceptual changes you associate with taking psychedelics when you take dopamine agonist medications like Ritalin, because when you do so you activate the glutamate pathways that are involved in retrieving the memories of the experiences which are associated with drug use. This is probably why many people report when they smoke weed that they feel like they are tripping again, because weed activates the same pathway.


Edited by morrowasted (09/17/15 01:58 PM)


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OfflineRebelutionsssss
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: millzy]
    #22251362 - 09/17/15 01:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

its a tiny TINY margin of people that develop this and im sure its a combination of rare shit. no way in hell 30% of psychedelic users have hppd. its just straight bullshit and youre trying to make it seem like its more prevalent than it is just because you got it from abusing too many drugs.


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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #22251424 - 09/17/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

BC what are your symptoms?

What makes it so hard to live your life or do the things you want with this "disorder"?

Aren't you starting college soon, or have you started already? It is seriously affecting your ability to go to college?


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #22251516 - 09/17/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

BC, so according to the second poll I did, 1 person found HPPD to effect them negatively(I'm pretty sure it was you) and 6 people were either indifferent towards it or it doesn't effect them negatively at all.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: morrowasted]
    #22251547 - 09/17/15 02:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

millzy said:
is this for real? i've been taking psychedelics for most of my life and i've heard a lot of bullshit about "flashbacks", but never bought into it.



seriously, I have taken psychedelics hundreds of times and I can count the number of times I could identify the experience I was having as "psychedelic" when I was sober on one hand.

Bitter Cactus, I would not be surprised if you identify whatever perceptual changes you supposedly associate with psychedelic use as negative because you have suffered significant anhedonia and dysphoria as a result of a deficit in your mesolimbic dopamine pathways.

Furthermore, there is a significant likelihood that you are exacerbating the symptoms of whatever perceptual changes you associate with taking psychedelics when you take dopamine agonist medications like Ritalin, because when you do so you activate the glutamate pathways that are involved in retrieving the memories of the experiences which are associated with drug use. This is probably why many people report when they smoke weed that they feel like they are tripping again, because weed activates the same pathway.



I think some people report it, and others dont. I have tripped between 50-100 times in my life and I have never gotten anything along the lines of HPPD

So I think it exists, it just that for most it isn't too significant. For some it is severe but for most its tiny and not that dispruptive to day to day life. i also think that its a hit or miss kind of thing


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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Achillita]
    #22251558 - 09/17/15 02:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
BC, so according to the second poll I did, 1 person found HPPD to effect them negatively(I'm pretty sure it was you) and 6 people were either indifferent towards it or it doesn't effect them negatively at all.



This. I think it def exists and is fairly prevalent. I just dont think its as big a deal as BC is making IMO. People like me who have tripped many many times have 0 symptoms. So there


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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22251566 - 09/17/15 02:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If you do acid frequently enough that you get hppd, chances are the acid isn't working.


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: ModestMouse]
    #22251608 - 09/17/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ModestMouse said:
If you do acid frequently enough that you get hppd, chances are the acid isn't working.



I had slight hppd for about a week and a half after doing 3 tabs of some decent LSD.(probably 50-80 mics) And then the next day taking 7 tabs of the same stuff.

Needless to say, I had that LSD body feeling and "frying" feeling for 3 days after that. And tracers and fuzz for that week and a half.

It wasn't a big deal, I still did my daily life.


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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Achillita] * 1
    #22251620 - 09/17/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

My point is acid always makes me want to do less acid. It's self-limiting, or atleast should be. Thus those who get HPPD are usually numb to the message.

If acid doesn't tell you to slow down on the fucking drugs and give your family a call once in a while I don't think it's working :lol:


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