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Dr.Wongburger
Yes!!


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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Cowb0yNeal00] 1
#22253008 - 09/17/15 07:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22253299 - 09/17/15 08:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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OP is once again overstating the risks of drugs and perpetuating dangerous mindsets about drugs.
he also apparently didn't read the site that he posted, or probably never even posts there
Quote:
Catechol-O-Methyl Tranferase Inhibition Reduces Symptoms of Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder
Henry D. Abraham, Psychiatry, Tufts University, Boston, MA
Background: Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD) is a poorly understood disorder arising from the use of hallucinogens. It is characterized by continuous visual disturbances which can be lifelong. There is no known treatment. Studies of HPPD patients with qEEG mapping show that the disorder is represented by disinhibition in the cerebral cortex. Inhibition of catechol-O-methyl transferase (COMT) increases inhibition of sensory input in humans carrying the G/G polymorphism. Accordingly, I hypothesized that inhibition of COMT would reduce symptoms in HPPD.
Methods: A single-dose, open label trial of a tolcapone, carbidopa, and L-dopa was conducted in 17 consecutive HPPD subjects. Visual symptoms in each subject were coded on a 0 to 7 Likert scale before, and two hours after, drug administration. A paired Student t-test was used to determine statistical significance.
Results: The mean pre-drug visual symptom score for the entire sample was 4.7 +/- 2.6, compared to the post-drug score of 3.7 +/- 2.8 (P= .001). A post hoc median split of the percent response of each subject was 51% symptom reduction in the upper half of responders compared to 1% in the lower half, suggesting a bimodal sample.
Conclusions: Inhibition of COMT is a novel approach in the treatment of HPPD. The bimodal treatment response is consistent with the action of a functional polymorphism in the COMT gene. Future directions include a double blind, placebo controlled trial of this treatment and a determination of COMT polymorphism in responders and non-responders. Keyword(s): HPPD, COMT, tolcapone, carbidopa, DOPA
also, instant melt, LOL
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:
Sheekle said: no1 cares
Hey buddy 
You are always grinding my chain bro do you have a problem with me? Seriously. I am just starting this thread to inform new users the risks about tripping. I think people should trip if they want but be educated of the potential side effects of that drug.
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The Moose
Alces alces


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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: 404]
#22253332 - 09/17/15 08:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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In RE: to the quoted insta-melt...
I believe the majority of people are aware of the possibility of psychological issues related to LSD and other psychedelic use. I mean if it is enough to have a diagnosis in the DSM (If HPPD is not in there this thread just lost ALL credibility, no I have not checked) then obviously people know its a problem but...
a) the government is not putting any warning labels on your next hit of acid
b) it's obviously not a huge issue otherwise it would be much more commonplace. You'd be hearing "Yo I did LSD that one time now everybody farts rainbows!!" not "lets do it again!"
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Tripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!



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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Achillita]
#22254585 - 09/18/15 05:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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To me flashbacks are occasional instances where I am suddenly in a very mild state of visual tripping.
Like I am taking a piss, sorta drift off, look at the wall and suddenly I get these mild visuals and a funny headspace for a few seconds. This can happen everywhere but it usually involves some sort of surface structure of patterns.
Or when I am outside on a beautiful night that is similar to a night I tripped and everything gets that outside tripping 'crispness' (if that makes sense).
I assume those moments are what people call flashbacks. Nothing major or impairing, just a bit socially awkward sometimes if it happens at work 
I am guessing it to be vivid memories back-linked to the visual cortex
-------------------- Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros... A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.

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fapjack
Title



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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: morrowasted]
#22254668 - 09/18/15 06:26 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
millzy said: is this for real? i've been taking psychedelics for most of my life and i've heard a lot of bullshit about "flashbacks", but never bought into it.
seriously, I have taken psychedelics hundreds of times and I can count the number of times I could identify the experience I was having as "psychedelic" when I was sober on one hand.
Bitter Cactus, I would not be surprised if you identify whatever perceptual changes you supposedly associate with psychedelic use as negative because you have suffered significant anhedonia and dysphoria as a result of a deficit in your mesolimbic dopamine pathways.
Furthermore, there is a significant likelihood that you are exacerbating the symptoms of whatever perceptual changes you associate with taking psychedelics when you take dopamine agonist medications like Ritalin, because when you do so you activate the glutamate pathways that are involved in retrieving the memories of the experiences which are associated with drug use. This is probably why many people report when they smoke weed that they feel like they are tripping again, because weed activates the same pathway.
You sure like to pigeonhole every experience people have into a biochemical process.
--------------------
Edited by fapjack (09/18/15 07:26 AM)
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shroominated
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: fapjack]
#22255228 - 09/18/15 09:11 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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well then I geuss me and all my friends are just immuned to this made up disorder now why is that im glad you asked its because we arnt afraid of whats inside we arnt afraid of what the trip brings to the surface so while you all make excuses like adhd or this dumb new disorder we will be over like yeah right weaklings
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic

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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: shroominated]
#22255276 - 09/18/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroominated said: well then I geuss me and all my friends are just immuned to this made up disorder now why is that im glad you asked its because we arnt afraid of whats inside we arnt afraid of what the trip brings to the surface so while you all make excuses like adhd or this dumb new disorder we will be over like yeah right weaklings
Psychedelics are no joke, psychologically there is risk, even the strongest minded people can be over powered by these things.
HPPD is very real, I just think that it gets misrepresented as to what it actually is and what it actually does.
-E. Borodin
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shroominated
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#22255306 - 09/18/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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me my family and my friends are living proof that's another fear tactic and pathetic lie
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic

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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: shroominated]
#22255328 - 09/18/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroominated said: me my family and my friends are living proof that's another fear tactic and pathetic lie
So just because it did not happen to you means that it can not happen to anybody?
I have criticized how HPPD is represented plenty, but to go around telling people that there is no psychological risk to psychedelic compounds is irresponsible and uninformed, I'm am of the oppinion that the ONLY risks involved are psychological.
Now, if a person said "I know a guy who took LSD and now he thinks he is a cup of juice" I would say bullshit.
My criticisms ha e to do with how HPPD is represented.
-E. Borodin
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shroominated
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#22255366 - 09/18/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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im telling you your disorder isn't a disorder its normal and part of the process facing your fears is the whole point of these drugs expanding your perception bad trips are a byeproduct of those who cling to there belief systems and wont let it shatter and to much of anything can be a badthing all im saying is these drugs are a tool but even a hammer can build a house or you could smash your self in the nuts its all on how you use it your so called disorder is a way to justify your fear of these drugs just because your afraid of what lies inside dosnt mean you should scare others into following your lame ass path
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic

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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: shroominated]
#22255433 - 09/18/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroominated said: im telling you your disorder isn't a disorder its normal and part of the process facing your fears is the whole point of these drugs expanding your perception bad trips are a byeproduct of those who cling to there belief systems and wont let it shatter and to much of anything can be a badthing all im saying is these drugs are a tool but even a hammer can build a house or you could smash your self in the nuts its all on how you use it your so called disorder is a way to justify your fear of these drugs just because your afraid of what lies inside dosnt mean you should scare others into following your lame ass path
I'm lost again, its very difficult to keep track of what your saying.
I mean I understand it, it just seems tossed together without anything real behind it, do you really believe the things you are saying? Or are you just trying to repeat something you have heard someone say?
These things are not for everybody, if people are afraid, let them be.
-E. Borodin
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shroominated
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#22255463 - 09/18/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have experienced it my self this is no regurgitation this is my life experiences maybe you should be more specific on whats not reading
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shroominated
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: shroominated]
#22255478 - 09/18/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I know many people who have went on a trip and didn't have a good time and I know exactly why I have done these drugs so much I can describe to you exactly why the bad trip exists triping enhances all your senses it enhances everything to your thoughts to your emotions so people with negative thoughts and negative emotions are forced to face these negativites and not only that triping also give you a choice it shows you how to heal your self and if you resist the truth it wont be pleasent
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badchad
Mad Scientist

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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: shroominated] 1
#22255532 - 09/18/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroominated said: maybe you should be more specific on whats not reading
I think he was commenting on your grammar. Your post is so poorly written that its incomprehensible. you seem to be trying to say that HPPD isn't a result of drug use, and that its a normal byproduct of "facing your fears."
I don't know if there are documented long-term perceptual changes resulting from someone facing their fears (whatever that means).
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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shroominated
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: badchad]
#22255546 - 09/18/15 10:20 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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im saying hppd is a made up disorder like adhd or add or most disorders and im saying bad experiences of trips are a result of not facing your fears and not conquering that negative voice in your head or those negative feeling your to scared to deal with grammar or not if you cant understand that your helpless
Edited by shroominated (09/18/15 10:21 AM)
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#22255784 - 09/18/15 11:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:
shroominated said: im telling you your disorder isn't a disorder its normal and part of the process facing your fears is the whole point of these drugs expanding your perception bad trips are a byeproduct of those who cling to there belief systems and wont let it shatter and to much of anything can be a badthing all im saying is these drugs are a tool but even a hammer can build a house or you could smash your self in the nuts its all on how you use it your so called disorder is a way to justify your fear of these drugs just because your afraid of what lies inside dosnt mean you should scare others into following your lame ass path
I'm lost again, its very difficult to keep track of what your saying.
Want me to help you?
He is saying this.
He is experiencing cognitive dissonance, just like most posters here.
We all love psychedelics and the typical mantra here seems to be that they can do no wrong and only benefit people and everyone should try psychedelics. Now that we are learning new information about these drugs and that if you trip there is a real possibility you will have persisting hallucinations you did not ask for for years to come, people are trying to downplay it or deny it.
It makes sense. If this forum was advocating for everyone eating green beans and we always talked about how good they are for us and how they changed lives, if we learnt new information green beans might cause cancer in women over 50 we would be hesitant to tell that information to new people trying green beans.
We all know this is true, it is fucking shitty to admit, but psychedelics can cause undesired persisting hallucinations for the rest of your life. No longer are we going to sweep this under the rug.
We did a poll in the HPPD thread and about 50 percent of trippers are effected in this in some way.
So odds are if you wanna trip, flip a coin and hope you don't get tails. If you get tails you are gonna have retarded hallucinations in your sober life for years to come and potentially until you die. Whether or not you are affected by it really has to do with your will and your mental toughness imo.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22255810 - 09/18/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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They're also finding that psychedelics heal damaged axons in the brain creating new pathways for information to be sent so uhh yea I'll take te fucking risk. You're making it seem like there a 50/50 chance that you'll develope this RARE problem. Even the people that do say they have it really don't find it affecting their lives in anyways so I don't see the big deal.
You damaged your brain and now you're trying to play it off like everyone gets this debilitating condition when really you're the minority in this situation. Quit spearing fear dude you're hurting the psychedelic community
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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european
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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22255831 - 09/18/15 11:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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hppd as i experiencied it:
i had intense emotions, an intense experience in a specific setting under a psychedelic.
weeks on, w/o psechedelic, i got into this specific setting again, and i began feeling how i feeled that day, my consciousness changed a little that way i was under that psychedelic.
but my conclusion is: this was NOT specific to psychedelic. It was specific to that setting AND to that intense emotion.
Ok, psychedelic often cause intense emotions, that might be the point.
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22255837 - 09/18/15 11:38 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: ... It makes sense. If this forum was advocating for everyone eating green beans and we always talked about how good they are for us and how they changed lives, if we learnt new information green beans might cause cancer in women over 50 we would be hesitant to tell that information to new people trying green beans.
We all know this is true, it is fucking shitty to admit, but psychedelics can cause undesired persisting hallucinations for the rest of your life. No longer are we going to sweep this under the rug. ...
Your example actually sort of highlights why I carry so much interest in the individuals that seem to experience these effects prior to hallucinogenic drug use.
What would really benefit us, as a community, is if we had information about types of people who may have a predisposition to experiencing HPPD.
It is a little difficult to tell everyone who wants to take psychedelics for the first time, and who may have no idea what hallucinating feels like, that they may be stuck hallucinating for years to come. It is not uncommon for people getting into psychedelics to already feel lied to about the dangers of drugs.
If we had the ability to pinpoint like...10% of the population as being likely to experience HPPD, then it would be far more easy to ask people prior to their first trip "do you experience X or has your doctor diagnosed you with Y ? If so, you should not be tripping or you run the risk of lasting effects you may consider negative." If green beans were reliably shown to cause cancer to women over 50, I would inform women over 50 that they were putting themselves at risk, and make sure that women below 50 were aware that they might run into a cut-off. Do not think I would rush to tell 20 year old men that their green beans may cause cancer, unless they were intending to surprise their mother with a salad. Not to cover information up, just what does or does not seem pertinent in each case. 
Cancer is not a good parallel though, as everybody who gets cancer would prefer not to have it.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



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Re: HPPD: the dirty little secret that psychedelic users have swept under the rug [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22255856 - 09/18/15 11:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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HPPD strikes anyone at any time though. I have zero evidence to back this up and this is just from my observation, but it really seems sort of random in the way it will effect people.
Quote:
Rebelutionsssss said: They're also finding that psychedelics heal damaged axons in the brain creating new pathways for information to be sent so uhh yea I'll take te fucking risk. You're making it seem like there a 50/50 chance that you'll develope this RARE problem. Even the people that do say they have it really don't find it affecting their lives in anyways so I don't see the big deal.
You damaged your brain and now you're trying to play it off like everyone gets this debilitating condition when really you're the minority in this situation. Quit spearing fear dude you're hurting the psychedelic community
Reading a book makes new pathways in your brain way more efficiently then tripping. Playing a computer game does too I think.
Again bro, cognitive dissonance.
Psychedelics are fucking great, but does that mean we seriously are not aloud to have real talk about the side effects?
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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