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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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extraction tek--can this work?
#22246727 - 09/16/15 04:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just watched a video illustrating a simple method for extracting and preserving psilocybin. The presenter uses straight Everclean and nothing else. Just lets the ground dry mushrom material sit for 24 hours in a certain amount of Everclear, then strains the mush solids out and puts the strained alcohol out to evaporate a while until he gets it down to say 10cc, or whatever, and, voila! done. He may reepeat this process several times on the mush until he had gotten aoo the alkaloids out--as he puts it--but the basic tek is as described above.
Can this actually work? This guy doesn't seem like an airhead to me--but I thought psilocybin is not really soluble in alki, that water does a much better job. Has anyone tried the straight alki route? No heat, nothing but a 24 hour sit and a period of evaporation.
Here is the video. It is long--30 mins--and that is why I summarized it. I give the link so anyone who wants can watch a little and get a feel for the quality of the promoter.
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
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bodhisatta 
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Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: champinhom]
#22246799 - 09/16/15 04:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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nope, wrong, bogus bullshit.
hot water is the best solvent. everclear sucks dick, vodka would be far superior to everclear because it has 60% water.
hot water works far better. hence why we make tea, with boiling water.
evaporation to concentrate the actives doesn't work well either, even with water which is a great solvent for them.
you could add everclear back to your extraction to act as a mild preservative if you're worried. most people just make tea fresh or freeze it.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (09/16/15 04:21 PM)
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aerow.thefox
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: champinhom]
#22246811 - 09/16/15 04:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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yea. iv got a batch from 3 yrs ago still in my freezer. its still good. i couldve done a better job.. but hey its good. and less suspicious. "oh nah man. thats just a half pint jar of moonshine my buddy gave me.." just get the highest proof you can get if you cant find everclear. the less water in the mix the less breakdown of the actives youll have over time.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: aerow.thefox]
#22246829 - 09/16/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
aerow.thefox said: yea. iv got a batch from 3 yrs ago still in my freezer. its still good. i couldve done a better job.. but hey its good. and less suspicious. "oh nah man. thats just a half pint jar of moonshine my buddy gave me.." just get the highest proof you can get if you cant find everclear. the less water in the mix the less breakdown of the actives youll have over time.

you want water, like 100% water and maybe some vitamin C
psilocin and psilocybin are only slightly soluble in ethanol. they're extremely soluble in water. if you use everclear the actives are hanging out in the 1-5% water if you get 190-198 proof
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (09/16/15 04:31 PM)
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aerow.thefox
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: bodhisatta]
#22246834 - 09/16/15 04:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: nope, wrong, bogus bullshit.
hot water is the best solvent. everclear sucks dick, vodka would be far superior to everclear because it has 60% water.
hot water works far better. hence why we make tea, with boiling water.
evaporation to concentrate the actives doesn't work well either, even with water which is a great solvent for them.
you could add everclear back to your extraction to act as a mild preservative if you're worried. most people just make tea fresh or freeze it.
water is terrible for it. psilo bonds to oxygen. so during the evap process (more so with heat evap) it will attatch to the O2 that was formerly H2O. and the freezing process with a high enough concentration of actives can cause crystalization of psilo.
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aerow.thefox
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: aerow.thefox]
#22246846 - 09/16/15 04:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: aerow.thefox]
#22246863 - 09/16/15 04:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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crystals of the gods has been known to be complete bullshit for over 10 years. the results always will be inactive salts
websites like erowid and things like the crystals of the gods TEK are the reason why so many people are this misinformed to this day.
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YaMoonSun
The Double Standard


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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: aerow.thefox]
#22246877 - 09/16/15 04:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Freeze dried in a vacuum chamber like instant coffee
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aerow.thefox
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: bodhisatta]
#22246882 - 09/16/15 04:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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i know some people tried vaping it and what not. i never thought that a good idea. always used liquid and it was fine. and i evaped using a dehumidifier not boiling. but last time i used it was last year at a festival. lit up like 10 people. and it was about 2 yrs old then. but to each their own.
Edited by aerow.thefox (09/16/15 04:41 PM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: YaMoonSun]
#22246890 - 09/16/15 04:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Now for some facts: You can't extract psilocybin to 'crystals'. If you do, those crystals are actually useless salts, as everyone who has done this knows.
I got on the PF 'extraction tek' bandwagon too a decade or so ago, but soon realized he had published his dream, not science. RR
the crystals you get have been proven to be inactive dozens and dozens of times.
if you do use the Crystals of the Gods tek you actually want to stop before you get crystals. the actives are slightly soluble in ethanol so they will be in solution. that's fine and and all but it's 100x quicker and better of an extraction to just make some fucking tea. ice cube tray the leftovers
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aerow.thefox
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: aerow.thefox]
#22246894 - 09/16/15 04:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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STAMETS
Paul Stamets even mentions extraction in his 1996 book - "PSILOCYBIN MUSHROOMS of the WORLD". Quote - page 50-51 "Another method I have seen is to soak crushed mushrooms in 75+% ethanol. AFter two to three days, the roughage can be filtered, leaving a dark- blue elixir that can be decanted accordingly. For every fresh 5 grams of mushrooms, 25-30 milliliters of alcohol is recommended. Psilocybin and psilocin dissolve into this solvent, and the alcohol also acts as a preservative. I really don't have much experience with this technique, but have talked to people who say it is their preferred method. SOme call this "blue juice." it at least is a good preservative.
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aerow.thefox
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: bodhisatta]
#22246908 - 09/16/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
Now for some facts: You can't extract psilocybin to 'crystals'. If you do, those crystals are actually useless salts, as everyone who has done this knows.
I got on the PF 'extraction tek' bandwagon too a decade or so ago, but soon realized he had published his dream, not science. RR
the crystals you get have been proven to be inactive dozens and dozens of times.
if you do use the Crystals of the Gods tek you actually want to stop before you get crystals. the actives are slightly soluble in ethanol so they will be in solution. that's fine and and all but it's 100x quicker and better of an extraction to just make some fucking tea. ice cube tray the leftovers
i never actually got to the crystals myself. just got it waaaaay down and used the psilo infused liquid solution. so thats good to know at least
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: aerow.thefox]
#22246925 - 09/16/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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yep the liquid before your get crystals is very potent. but why bother jamming the actives into ethanol when you have water...
also paul himself has recanted many of the things he said back in years like 1996 
a great example of people reading only what they want to read is paul's other book that says 86F is a great temperature to incubate cubes at. which has long since been proven wrong but it's in the book. Paul himself no longer agrees with what he wrote but it's broken the active mushroom growing community for so long because people that grow magic mushrooms do research worse than 4th graders.
Another thing Paul said back in 1990 something was that you should incubate cubes in the dark.
long since proven wrong. still in the old book, noobs still get that wrong.
nearly 50+ % of everything paul wrote before 1997 is probably wrong or not 100% true anymore.
Quote:
*Incubating dark is another thing in Paul Stamets 'The Mushroom Cultivator' that needs to go away. The old advice of "incubate in total darkness" is bunk. Those words were written by Stamets in TMC 20 years ago, and he disavows that advice today.
TMC and mushrooms of the world are great books, with a grain of salt
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (09/16/15 04:56 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Loc: Canada
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: aerow.thefox]
#22246945 - 09/16/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Willsolvem prefers to use ethanol as the solvent in his candy extraction tek. TL uses vodka in his shroom jello shots recipe. I used moonshine once to create a tincture. Ethanol works it just takes longer to extract than water.
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aerow.thefox
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: bodhisatta]
#22246951 - 09/16/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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damn this wishy-washy-ness. lol i at least know the solutionn did just as it shouldve for extracting and preserving it for me. as far as anything else.. its only what iv read.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22246952 - 09/16/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Willsolvem prefers to use ethanol as the solvent in his candy extraction tek. TL uses vodka in his shroom jello shots recipe. I used moonshine once to create a tincture. Ethanol works it just takes longer to extract than water.
 the difference between slightly soluable and very soluable. I say make tea, add everclear if you want ethanol as a preservative.
either way storage is your problem, light and air are a problem regardless if you use water or ethanol.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (09/16/15 04:58 PM)
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aerow.thefox
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: bodhisatta]
#22246970 - 09/16/15 05:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
TMC and mushrooms of the world are great books, with a grain of salt
i thoroughly enjoyed mycelium running. you?
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aerow.thefox
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: bodhisatta]
#22246972 - 09/16/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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reason for edit: double post
Edited by aerow.thefox (09/16/15 05:01 PM)
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22246989 - 09/16/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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You can use both but water does work faster(21min) and in my opinion better alongside ascorbic and citric at around 170f....the ethanol extract can be ultimately manipulated as well to preform better.
Everclear taste like shit tho
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Quote:
preschooler said: Everclear taste like shit tho
Clearly you haven't sampled the hideous backyard shine I make
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22247002 - 09/16/15 05:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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lol id love too
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: aerow.thefox]
#22247014 - 09/16/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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never read the book, saw the TED talk he did and some youtube videos by him about the same themes as the book though.
paul is a great but like all of us, we grow and learn things, and some of the things we did early in our career isn't exactly wrong but it's not as accurate as possible or in some cases it was exactly wrong.
Ethanol does work as a solvent but if the reason you're using ethanol rather than water is because of an invalid or mistaken concern than I get a little keyboard frustrated, or so it seems, I'm really just sitting here smoking weed.
some ethanol will keep your extraction solution from funk for sure, but frozen water is pretty stable too. most peoples freezers are nice and dark too so that's a bonus.
This is pure speculation but I would think that the actives would actually be more stable over time in frozen water than in freezing cold ethanol. that could very well not be true but either way worrying about how long it's going to last is moot.
extractions in water last longer than a good long time anyway. and if you can't make more within a couple years then
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aerow.thefox
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Quote:
preschooler said: Everclear taste like shit tho
id always put a lil pop in my mouth, then just 2-3 cc of solution, then chase. wasnt too bad. mostly a lingering taste of mushrooms.
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: bodhisatta]
#22247098 - 09/16/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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With water it can also be made into gelatin treats if you are not a vegan or anything. Ethanol is more like a preservative if anything like bodhisatta stated
Using acids is key to this extract. Mainly things that can already be found in limes,fruits etc or plants that already exist.
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aerow.thefox
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: bodhisatta]
#22247100 - 09/16/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: paul is a great but like all of us, we grow and learn things, and some of the things we did early in our career isn't exactly wrong but it's not as accurate as possible or in some cases it was exactly wrong.
oh too true. lol
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: aerow.thefox]
#22247119 - 09/16/15 05:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
aerow.thefox said:
Quote:
preschooler said: Everclear taste like shit tho
id always put a lil pop in my mouth, then just 2-3 cc of solution, then chase. wasnt too bad. mostly a lingering taste of mushrooms. 
mine was more like 20 ml and it was like a mushroom just farted in my mouth helluva buzz tho my water/acid extract is far superior to this method
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aerow.thefox
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so after water/acid soak, can you evap to concentrate or did i have that wrong too? and as far as freezing it do you ever find it annoying that you need to thaw the tea solution?
and sorry for all this. did all my research years ago but the last couple/few yrs i havent been in a position to do much. so i was never on. things have changed. lol but its always good to have up to date info.
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: aerow.thefox]
#22247325 - 09/16/15 06:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes you can concentrate but we don't have figures as to what is too concentrated. Shoot for at the least 1g/1ml maybe?
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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aerow.thefox
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: maddchef]
#22247340 - 09/16/15 06:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
maddchef said: Yes you can concentrate but we don't have figures as to what is too concentrated. Shoot for at the least 1g/1ml maybe?
thats about what i had my solution at b4 i dumped the rest of my extra not-fully-concentrated-solution in. now i dunno what its at.
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: bodhisatta]
#22247361 - 09/16/15 06:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
hot water is the best solvent. everclear sucks dick, vodka would be far superior to everclear because it has 60% water.
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: bodhisatta]
#22247390 - 09/16/15 06:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
hot water is the best solvent. everclear sucks dick, vodka would be far superior to everclear because it has 60% water.
So, if vodka would work because of water content, what about brandy at, say, 40% alcohol?
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: bodhisatta]
#22248116 - 09/16/15 08:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: nope, wrong, bogus bullshit. hot water is the best solvent. everclear sucks dick, vodka would be far superior to everclear because it has 60% water.
This backwards. Pure water is a poor solvent. Pure ethanol is also a poor solvent. A mix of the two is a good solvent, around 75% ethanol seems to be the best. Slightly acidified water is poof, a good solvent. Psilocybin being a Zwitterion makes what it will dissolve in wacky and sometimes unexpected.
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: aerow.thefox]
#22249377 - 09/17/15 02:45 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
aerow.thefox said: so after water/acid soak, can you evap to concentrate or did i have that wrong too? and as far as freezing it do you ever find it annoying that you need to thaw the tea solution?
and sorry for all this. did all my research years ago but the last couple/few yrs i havent been in a position to do much. so i was never on. things have changed. lol but its always good to have up to date info. 
No reason for evaporation, use less water if you want. One could easily do a full scale water/acid extract on upwards of 7-14 grams with 500ml of water. Possibly a ton more if u reused the water. Im sure one could manipulate this.
Think like a chef here. A chef preparing shiitake tea or medicinal mushrooms would likely keep them dry and prepare them the day of....although I would probly take a shot or two with shiitake tea. Its pretty rough imo.
Ive actually canned my extracts via water bath before and they came out great with 7day and 1 month trials. Just using water and natural acids and anti oxidants.
Putting alcohol in the mix for a preservative would be ideal because the mix would be "safe" from outside bacteria and contaminants.
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bodhisatta 
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The only acid you need is ascorbic.
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

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Re: extraction tek--can this work? [Re: bodhisatta]
#22252260 - 09/17/15 05:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah ascorbic is universally a great preserving agent with plant and fungi plant matter. Most likely because its nature's anti-oxidant/acid. ive not worked purely with it alone...but id assume people use citric along with it because it brings the ph down so fast...with very minimal amounts used.
In my wonderful highdeas ... I think about how higher concentrations of ascorbic are found in plants that dip below zone 9/10. Closer to the equator and closer to the sun.
THe plants naturally produce it to prenvent oxidation
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