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Invisibleverbage
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Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles
    #22241727 - 09/15/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hi fellow collectors,

I recently acquired a new Trichocereus Peruvianus.  I potted the plant up in some mix and threw him under a bay of T5ho lights to root.  Today I noticed just about every areole has these growths coming out from the underneath.  I've seen air roots and to me this doesn't look like roots.  What do you think?

I've attached some pictures with the growths circled in red and then another picture of some air roots on a bridge of mine.








Air roots Bridgesii


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: verbage]
    #22241816 - 09/15/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Those are roots.  When I had cacti cuttings drying, they would form those roots like that.


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InvisiblecowsRmeat
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: Morel Guy]
    #22242729 - 09/15/15 06:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I would guess roots as well. Strange it's popping out at every areole.


--------------------
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree.
'Which road do I take?' she asked.
'Where do you want to go?' was his response.
'I don't know', Alice answered.
'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'





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Offlineislanduniverse
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: cowsRmeat]
    #22242912 - 09/15/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

did you plant the cutting with air roots upside down? looks maybe yes


looks to me like similar non-spines you see on new growth/pups on bridgesii plants

here is an example of a plant with similar


besides usually roots grow out in random places, not consistent like under each areole i believe



Edited by islanduniverse (09/15/15 07:22 PM)


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InvisiblecowsRmeat
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: islanduniverse]
    #22243023 - 09/15/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I agree. Looks a lot like what you just posted, island...  Tell me more about these 'non-spines'. Are they just underdeveloped spines or something?


--------------------
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree.
'Which road do I take?' she asked.
'Where do you want to go?' was his response.
'I don't know', Alice answered.
'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'





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Offlineislanduniverse
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: cowsRmeat]
    #22243035 - 09/15/15 07:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

could be that or just particular growth style where some extra skin just is covering the areoles before they expand outward and meet the atmosphere

i really dont know


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InvisiblecowsRmeat
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: islanduniverse]
    #22243038 - 09/15/15 07:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:nodofunderstanding:


--------------------
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree.
'Which road do I take?' she asked.
'Where do you want to go?' was his response.
'I don't know', Alice answered.
'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'





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Invisibleverbage
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: islanduniverse]
    #22243048 - 09/15/15 07:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hi Island, I agree that our photos are very similar.  Can you elaborate on non-spines?  I have not seen this before.  I really only noticed them because I like to break out the magnifying glass and look at my plants.  I'm curious like that...

Also, the bridge with air roots in my OP is planted correct side up.

Thanks!


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Offlineislanduniverse
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: verbage]
    #22243057 - 09/15/15 07:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

probably just a genetic thing

if you look at peyotes you find crescent shape adjacent to areoles, just because that's how the meristem pumps out new growth... i guess they may all have different growth qualities


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Invisibleverbage
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: islanduniverse]
    #22243067 - 09/15/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah it's almost like a "skin tag".  Weird.


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Offlinekykeion
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: verbage]
    #22245500 - 09/16/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

They are vestigial leaves.  Kind of like a genetic memory from when cactus ancestors had leaves.
Quote:

http://www.backyardnature.net/yucatan/leafcact.htm :
From the cactus's point of view, these leaves are mostly vestigial and apparently don't do the cactus much good. The first cacti bore flat, broad, much larger leaves that performed the same services as regular leaves do for regular plants today. However, during evolutionary history the vast majority (not all) of cactus kinds found it more adaptive to lose their leaves than to retain them. Still, recent studies show that cactus genes retain all the information needed to produce the complex plumbing and chemistry of regular leaves, but that information is "turned off."




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Offlinekosmokratorshaman
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: kykeion]
    #22245877 - 09/16/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kykeion said:
They are vestigial leaves.  Kind of like a genetic memory from when cactus ancestors had leaves.
Quote:

http://www.backyardnature.net/yucatan/leafcact.htm :
From the cactus's point of view, these leaves are mostly vestigial and apparently don't do the cactus much good. The first cacti bore flat, broad, much larger leaves that performed the same services as regular leaves do for regular plants today. However, during evolutionary history the vast majority (not all) of cactus kinds found it more adaptive to lose their leaves than to retain them. Still, recent studies show that cactus genes retain all the information needed to produce the complex plumbing and chemistry of regular leaves, but that information is "turned off."








sounds good, but the pics just don't match. Good theory/


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OfflineSanPedroCactuses
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: kosmokratorshaman]
    #22246298 - 09/16/15 02:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Definitely vestigal leaves and are you sure about that bridgesii?


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Offlinekykeion
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: SanPedroCactuses]
    #22246445 - 09/16/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The pics don't match because they are of an opuntia, not a tricho.

vestigial leaves trichocereus

Or this post


Edited by kykeion (09/16/15 03:01 PM)


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Offlinekosmokratorshaman
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: kykeion]
    #22246501 - 09/16/15 03:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

ok, my bad


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Invisibleverbage
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: SanPedroCactuses]
    #22246549 - 09/16/15 03:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SanPedroCactuses said:
Definitely vestigal leaves and are you sure about that bridgesii?




Yeah lol, last night I even pulled the bridgesii out of the pot to double check against the base I cut it off of.  After Islanduniverse said something about it being upside down I was laying in bed wondering why he'd ask,  I started looking at the spine angles In the picture and finally unpotted it to look at which side is etitolated.  It was pretty funny to me.


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Invisibleverbage
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: kykeion]
    #22246568 - 09/16/15 03:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kykeion said:
They are vestigial leaves.  Kind of like a genetic memory from when cactus ancestors had leaves.
Quote:

http://www.backyardnature.net/yucatan/leafcact.htm :
From the cactus's point of view, these leaves are mostly vestigial and apparently don't do the cactus much good. The first cacti bore flat, broad, much larger leaves that performed the same services as regular leaves do for regular plants today. However, during evolutionary history the vast majority (not all) of cactus kinds found it more adaptive to lose their leaves than to retain them. Still, recent studies show that cactus genes retain all the information needed to produce the complex plumbing and chemistry of regular leaves, but that information is "turned off."







Thanks so much!  You've given me a new avenue to study.  I had no idea about vestigial leaves or that cactus once had true leaves.  I'll deffinately spend some free over the next few weeks learning more about these leaves.  This is my only cutting/rooted plant exhibiting these nodules so it was really confusing.  I wonder if there's something genetically more "true" about this cutting and the one in islanduniverse's photo compared to all my other cacti.


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Offlinekykeion
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: verbage]
    #22246719 - 09/16/15 04:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Cool, well here is a lead for you then. I came a cross this when I was trying to back up my answer.  It is one of those lame stories about journal articles (with no link or title of the actual study), it lists the lead author's name and the journal of publication so there should be enough info to track down the actual article.  Hopefully it is available on line.


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InvisibleEl Torcho
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Re: Growths Under Trich Peruvianus Areoles [Re: kykeion]
    #22248707 - 09/16/15 10:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Sweet!

I noticed the exact same thing on a pach pup a few days ago!

Saves me trying to get pics of them. :smile:


--------------------
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~Dennis McKenna

"There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to."
~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama


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