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Alexestalex
fallen angel


Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 5,644
Loc: heart of the sun
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Anti-natalism
#22241133 - 09/15/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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What are your thoughts on anti-natalism?
Personally, I've always been an anti-natalist and I think having children is an immoral act. I just think it's wrong to force existence on a sentient being and make it prone to suffering.
This is merely my opinion.
I think it's an interesting topic.
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Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Sorry but
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TopPmz
<No Title>


Registered: 01/13/13
Posts: 2,615
Loc: FL
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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 I don't necessarily want kids of my own, but if people stopped having kids, there'd be no more people. Maybe your parents should've been anti natalists, OP.
-------------------- "Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 5 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Anti-natalism [Re: TopPmz]
#22241315 - 09/15/15 01:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Is this new protest of the year? anti-natalism?
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dionysiandame
Mischievous Maenad


Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 324
Loc: Samothrace
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Quote:
Alexestalex said: What are your thoughts on anti-natalism?
Personally, I've always been an anti-natalist and I think having children is an immoral act. I just think it's wrong to force existence on a sentient being and make it prone to suffering.
This is merely my opinion.
I think it's an interesting topic.
I'm not anti-natalist but I do get kind of miffed when people at work get special privileges for having kids. Like I can't take off in the middle of the day because I want to rub one out to one of Vladimir Putin's speeches but little Christy has ice-skating try outs so DD, I need you to cover for me this afternoon. And everyone is kind of fine with that because "ya know...kids!"
And I'm like "No. I don't know. I don't want to know and she should have to use vacay time like I do if she isn't going to make up the time."
-------------------- He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.
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Dilsnique
Admiral Admirable


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 3,800
Loc: Netherworld
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Anti-natalism [Re: Patlal]
#22241558 - 09/15/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Aw come on now! Children are the latest and greatest pet rage!


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Hanz
Freak & Gentleman



Registered: 08/02/15
Posts: 2,932
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
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Quote:
Alexestalex said: I think having children is an immoral act. I just think it's wrong to force existence on a sentient being and make it prone to suffering.
Your point is an interesting philosophical argument to pursue. One I could even find some merit in. On some days. But on a practical level, I'm sure you agree that (at least other people) having children is an essential necessity.
If you don't then are you perhaps of the opinion that humanity at large has, even in theory, no right to exist? That can also be a valid philosophical position.
Love, Hanz.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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Alexestalex
fallen angel


Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 5,644
Loc: heart of the sun
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Re: Anti-natalism [Re: Hanz]
#22241720 - 09/15/15 02:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hanz said:
Quote:
Alexestalex said: I think having children is an immoral act. I just think it's wrong to force existence on a sentient being and make it prone to suffering.
Your point is an interesting philosophical argument to pursue. One I could even find some merit in. On some days. But on a practical level, I'm sure you agree that (at least other people) having children is an essential necessity.
If you don't then are you perhaps of the opinion that humanity at large has, even in theory, no right to exist? That can also be a valid philosophical position.
Love, Hanz.
If this topic interests you, you should read this book or at least skim through the main points.
http://vk.com/doc151440227_220518152
Pretty much every reason why I think having children is immoral is outlined in it.
"The central idea of this book is that coming into existence is always a serious harm. That idea will be defended at length, but the basic insight is quite simple: Although the good things in one’s life make it go better than it otherwise would have gone, one could not have been deprived by their absence if one had not existed. Those who never exist cannot be deprived. However, by coming into existence one does suffer quite serious harms that could not have befallen one had one not come into existence."
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Hanz
Freak & Gentleman



Registered: 08/02/15
Posts: 2,932
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
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Quote:
Alexestalex said: "The central idea of this book is that coming into existence is always a serious harm. That idea will be defended at length, but the basic insight is quite simple: Although the good things in one’s life make it go better than it otherwise would have gone, one could not have been deprived by their absence if one had not existed. Those who never exist cannot be deprived. However, by coming into existence one does suffer quite serious harms that could not have befallen one had one not come into existence."
This is the core argument. And it can sound logically convincing. But, convincing of what exactly? On closer inspection it could turn out to be a vacuous argument. Followed through, not only would humanity at large be better off not existing, but in fact any life form, any object, or any process whatsoever. All of them have a beginning and an end. Don't want the end? Then don't have it begin.
And there, in its most radical form, the fallacy shows. It is an extremist point of view if ever there was one. Extremist points of view are known to lack the balance essential for any body of thought to be used as a moral guide for practical life.
It is, however, still an interesting train of thought to have in, say, a philosophical laboratory. But that just isn't what actual life is, what real human lives are.
Oh, and by the way, didn't you know that all is one? That's right, One! In that case, no beginnings, and no endings. Problem solved!
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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