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InvisibleAsante
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in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck * 1
    #22240594 - 09/15/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

A breakthrough in alternative energy. This sounds very promising for the future.

100 megawatts is a lot of power, about a tenth of a commercial power plant.

ARTICLE

High Beta Fusion Reactor


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante]
    #22240629 - 09/15/15 10:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

but it weights 300-1000 tons???????  how does that fit on a pickup truck?


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante] * 2
    #22240641 - 09/15/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Wow. I hope they succeed. This would be a huge boon for everyone everywhere.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Le_Canard]
    #22240651 - 09/15/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

it'll prolly be so godly expensive that it'll take forever to take off, not to mention the government will most likely step in and regulate it to hell and back for "safety concerns"


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22240657 - 09/15/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Obviously the mantle does not so its not very mobile as a whole, but it could pave the way to proliferation of lots of compact fusion plants in a short time span.

We have to replace fossil fuel burning as soon as possible. We are wasting our best chemical resource for energy production.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22240662 - 09/15/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Lockheeds HQ is about a mile from where I live. They are kinda scary. Black masked dudes with machine guns.



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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante]
    #22240666 - 09/15/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

downside is fusion would be good for space travel and this will end up using it all up for $$$$  or is there potential to use other easier to find metals?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22240683 - 09/15/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Fusion reactors, generally speaking, do not use critical resources. If we got a good cost effective design in open source, the whole world could start building em all at once.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante]
    #22240751 - 09/15/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

sounded like they were using lithium tho or something made from lithium to do it?


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22240855 - 09/15/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

They use Lithium and Deuterium as fuel. The lithium gets converted into Tritium and Helium-3 and the reactor primarily runs on Tritium Deuteride, the easiest of all fusion reactions to complete, though they will likely enrich it with the Helium-3 to get more energy out of it.

When reactors get better they can run it principally on pure deuterium and its decomposition products, or even on Boron + Hydrogen, which would be super awesome as that is aneutronic fusion, so zero radioactivity when the reactor is turned off and only xrays and gamma when its turned on.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koods]
    #22240868 - 09/15/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Lockheeds HQ is about a mile from where I live. They are kinda scary. Black masked dudes with machine guns.





i'm sure that there are some masterful trade secrets they'd kill for to keep out of perhaps enemy hands, and spies.


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OnlineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22240882 - 09/15/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

lockheed martin has a fuck load of redic shit the jus bought sikorsky


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OfflineThe Moose
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koods]
    #22240888 - 09/15/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

That could be anywhere in/around DC tbh. :shrug:

Lockheed does build missiles and shit that goes boom though (to put it simply)

And it doesn't look as bad as that picture seems. It's in Bethesda after all...



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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: The Moose]
    #22240892 - 09/15/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

it looks like an aircraft carrier that's halfway buried


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OnlineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: The Moose]
    #22240900 - 09/15/15 11:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

any corporate building with a perimeter fence and armed guards in affluent towns is extremly scary to me


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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koods]
    #22241143 - 09/15/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Lockheeds HQ is about a mile from where I live. They are kinda scary. Black masked dudes with machine guns.





That's me in the middle :wink:


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Onlinekoods
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22241215 - 09/15/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

koods said:
Lockheeds HQ is about a mile from where I live. They are kinda scary. Black masked dudes with machine guns.





i'm sure that there are some masterful trade secrets they'd kill for to keep out of perhaps enemy hands, and spies.




They keep the Area 51 aliens there


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Invisibletrekie
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koods] * 2
    #22241269 - 09/15/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:niggawhat:



:threadmonitor:


I will bump in 10 years

:maximumtrolling:  :classictroll:  :realtroll:


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OfflineHanz
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: trekie]
    #22241413 - 09/15/15 01:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've been waiting for this. It's about time. Still, ..skeptical. Fusion has always been elusive.


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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante]
    #22241540 - 09/15/15 02:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

When and if this technology comes to fruition...it will first be used by the military...kinda like  how it was once thought impossible to build a nuclear reactor small enough to fit into a submarine....well,they solved that...now they can do it even smaller and more efficiently and much safer.

It will be a long long time until the private industry gets ahold of this (lockheed is probably being funded by the military at least partially and they will put clamps on any privatization contracturally) It'll be a long time before anyone is driving an automobile powered by anything like that.


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante] * 1
    #22241584 - 09/15/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Nobody said it would be cheap. Also, is there some practical way to produce anywhere near reasonable amounts of tritium and deuterium that doesn't rely on the use of fission reactors? This looks like a special purpose thing for badass planes and ships and the like. I strongly doubt it'll get any public use for a long time even if it works like they think it will.

And yes, Lockheed is one of those government defense contractors that gets ridiculous amounts of money for stuff we don't get to know about. The stuff they designed in the 1980s is still impressively scary. They're on my list of things not to poke with a stick.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #22241616 - 09/15/15 02:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I see no breakthrough, just hype obviously in pursuit of deep pockets to fund it in hopes of actually creating something. Stories like this come out every few years. Ho hum.

Fusion would be nice if we ever get it, same as quantum computers.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante]
    #22241649 - 09/15/15 02:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Thats frickin awesome Asante!

Ever since i heard about fusion power, ive been astounded by its design and how it works. Fusion is just so cool.

I guess they solve the problem. They were the fusion reactors too big, so they compacted them, and apparently solve the fusion reactor problem thats been around for ever.

Cant wait to see one actually develop in my lifetime!

The power of the Sun, on Earth! Amazing.

Next, Enterprise-style starships! :awesome:


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #22241670 - 09/15/15 02:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

They're making it smaller for the purposes of their application, I think.

"Physics professor and director of the UK's national Fusion laboratory Steven Cowley called for more hard data, pointing out that the current thinking in fusion research is that "bigger is better". Other fusion reactors achieve 8 times improvement in heat confinement when machine size is doubled.[12]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_beta_fusion_reactor

EDIT: I should add that size is a big deal for things like ships and planes because it affects their radar/sonar profile. Smaller things are harder to detect, so a smaller badass power source would provide a significant military advantage, which is what lockheed martin is all about. This isn't the social advance you guys want it to be, unless you want the US military to be even bigger and badder-ass than it already is.


Edited by Mr.GuessWork (09/15/15 02:56 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #22241840 - 09/15/15 03:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If they have patents on it, they should be able to tell us how it works or how it differs from previous designs. The fact they give no info at all tells me they not only have no prototype but are in early stages of research. Its like they figure if they went in a certain direction they might hit paydirt but haven't hit it yet.

They are looking for investors, you don't get them by saying "we are in the early stages but have high hopes", that brings no cash. You say things like "it will fit on a truck, its 7' x 10'" as though it was built already. That generates excitement.

The other give away is the 10 years timeline. No one can predict what will happen in 10 years. That is pure speculation. Don't mean to burst anyone's bubble, but over inflated hype is the rule, not the exception now days. Some day we might have it, maybe.

Would it be a good thing though? Or would stupid humans chop down all the forests that remain, kill off the rest of the species, and produce even more pollution and greenhouse gas? If you can desalinate water, you can make deserts bloom, put cities in the middle of the ocean, do lots of things. Done wisely it would be good but people have a history of doing the stupidest things rather than the wisest. If you can make a buck being stupid, lots of people will be doing just that.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante]
    #22241853 - 09/15/15 03:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm doubtful


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22241857 - 09/15/15 03:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I have no fucking idea what you are babbling about.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22241861 - 09/15/15 03:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Of course you don't. We are talking about science, not beer drinking or pounding nails. Its way over your head.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22241902 - 09/15/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

These guys usually don't rely on public investments. I'm not sure how they raise funds internally, but I'm guessing they already did at least some very rough prototyping or proof of concept type stuff, and it does look like they're hyping up their plan for a prototype, which probably is for the purpose of generating funding or future sales. Black science like this suffers because it's not open to the scientific community like it should be, but it has the benefit of having lots of funding (thanks American tax dollars). Still if it does pan out, it still looks like it would be far more expensive than nuclear power, since it relies on nuclear reactors to produce most of it's fuel.


EDIT: On another note, we already have a really bad-ass fusion reactor that's powered by gravity, and it's freely available to the public, and we waste most of it's power. If you look strait up at around noon, you'll see it.


Edited by Mr.GuessWork (09/15/15 03:52 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22241920 - 09/15/15 03:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Why would we need to chop down more trees, produce more pollution and greenhouse gases if we have fusion?  Do you have even the slightest clue?  Fusion is our savior.  Sadly I don't quite believe this article any more than with Pons and Fleischman.  We need fusion or we will be in caves in a few centuries.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #22241924 - 09/15/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Lockheed gets a shit ton of government money


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22241958 - 09/15/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>Why would we need to chop down more trees...

I never said that. You start right off with a strawman

>produce more pollution and greenhouse gases if we have fusion?

We don't have it and we have no idea how much pollution it will produce. However, humans living in dense cities produce mega tons of pollution in the form of garbage, sewage, co2, etc. The factories and farms that produce what we need also produce pollution.

>Fusion is our savior.

Talk about being clueless... You try to tell us what fusion will be like when not even the scientists know the answers let alone a knuckle dragging nail pounder. Do you believe everything you are told? Sounds like it.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22241977 - 09/15/15 04:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Lockheed gets a shit ton of government money




They like to sell their shit to the government to make even more money too though. The defense contractor business is sweet with corruption and excesses of cash.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Why would we need to chop down more trees, produce more pollution and greenhouse gases if we have fusion?  Do you have even the slightest clue?  Fusion is our savior.  Sadly I don't quite believe this article any more than with Pons and Fleischman.  We need fusion or we will be in caves in a few centuries.




We need to start using some kind of renewable energy source, and small fusion reactors is probably not the best or most viable idea. A reactor that relies on purified tritium and Deuterium is absolutely not renewable. That stuff gets produced by bombing water with neutrons that are produced in a nuclear reactor, so it any fusion that depends on those isotopes is also going to depend on the availability of isotopes used in fission reactor. This is all about making warships smaller (and probably considerably more expensive). It's not about making a power source for humanity at large.


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OfflinelillFish
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 1
    #22241998 - 09/15/15 04:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I am still laughing at "i will bump in 10 years". :curbyourenthusiasm:


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22242237 - 09/15/15 05:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
They are looking for investors, you don't get them by saying "we are in the early stages but have high hopes", that brings no cash. You say things like "it will fit on a truck, its 7' x 10'" as though it was built already. That generates excitement.




Lockheed is looking for investors?

Quote:

The other give away is the 10 years timeline. No one can predict what will happen in 10 years. That is pure speculation. Don't mean to burst anyone's bubble, but over inflated hype is the rule, not the exception now days. Some day we might have it, maybe.




A surprisingly apt statement

Quote:

Would it be a good thing though? Or would stupid humans chop down all the forests that remain, kill off the rest of the species, and produce even more pollution and greenhouse gas?




wait, what?  this statement has nothing to do with fusion

Quote:

If you can desalinate water, you can make deserts bloom, put cities in the middle of the ocean, do lots of things.




yes, nearly infinite energy from reliable fusion would allow for widespread desalination.


Quote:

We don't have it and we have no idea how much pollution it will produce.




yes we do, and we have good knowledge of the pollution produced.  Fusion has been accomplished for decades.(though not with a net energy gain)

Quote:

You try to tell us what fusion will be like when not even the scientists know the answers let alone a knuckle dragging nail pounder.




again, scientists do, in fact, know the answers.  At least about the pollution created etc.  if you are talking about socioeconomic answers, then you are correct, nobody actually knows what will happen to society if (nearly)unlimited cheap energy became available to the masses.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22242312 - 09/15/15 05:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Nice that you know all the answers, bal. :rolleyes:

Producing the material for the fusion reactor itself produces pollution in the form of radioactive wastes.

>scientists do, in fact, know the answers.

Do they now? If that were true we would have practical fusion reactors instead of just hype about how in 10 years maybe we will have them.

Asante I can understand, he gets carried away a lot. But people need to be a little more skeptical.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koods]
    #22242333 - 09/15/15 05:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Lockheeds HQ is about a mile from where I live. They are kinda scary. Black masked dudes with machine guns.







Zero trust for any "defense contractor". Also keep in mind the 50-100 year rule. This isn't "new" technology. This is just tech they are willing to let us see and get all giddy about thinking it's some brand new breakthrough.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Mescalean]
    #22242440 - 09/15/15 05:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I can't even imagine the things that they are working on behind those closed gates. It would be naive to assume that they tell the public about any immediate breakthroughs. It's all controlled.


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OfflineMescalean
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: lillFish]
    #22242463 - 09/15/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It's been controlled for a while now. It's not as uncommon as you think. Apple does it. Marketing of obsoletion.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: lillFish] * 1
    #22242485 - 09/15/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Damn, it's like people just can't find a way to break the habit of disagreeing with you, Stonehenge. They'd rather believe these spooks are philanthropists than acknowledge that you have a point.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante]
    #22242567 - 09/15/15 06:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
A breakthrough in alternative energy. This sounds very promising for the future.

100 megawatts is a lot of power, about a tenth of a commercial power plant.

ARTICLE

High Beta Fusion Reactor




Is this the intercourse towards Deuterium&Thorium reactors?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22242659 - 09/15/15 06:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Why would we need to chop down more trees...

I never said that. You start right off with a strawman




Before you edited it
Quote:



>produce more pollution and greenhouse gases if we have fusion?

We don't have it and we have no idea how much pollution it will produce. However, humans living in dense cities produce mega tons of pollution in the form of garbage, sewage, co2, etc. The factories and farms that produce what we need also produce pollution.

>Fusion is our savior.

Talk about being clueless... You try to tell us what fusion will be like when not even the scientists know the answers let alone a knuckle dragging nail pounder. Do you believe everything you are told? Sounds like it.




We need fusion. If we do not get fusion we are fucked eventually. 

Good fucking zappa.  Do you want to go back to living in caves with 100,000 humans hunting and gathering in the Rift Valley?  What is your answer to human energy needs?  Genocide?


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22242772 - 09/15/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Why would we need to chop down more trees...

I never said that. You start right off with a strawman

>produce more pollution and greenhouse gases if we have fusion?

We don't have it and we have no idea how much pollution it will produce. However, humans living in dense cities produce mega tons of pollution in the form of garbage, sewage, co2, etc. The factories and farms that produce what we need also produce pollution.

>Fusion is our savior.

Talk about being clueless... You try to tell us what fusion will be like when not even the scientists know the answers let alone a knuckle dragging nail pounder. Do you believe everything you are told? Sounds like it.




Fusion is when smaller atomic nuclei are combined into one larger atomic nuclei. Most certainly, man-made fusion reactors will be using a form of hydrogen as fuel, maybe in the form of heavy water.

When hydrogen nuclei fuse they result in a helium nuclei that has a slightly lower mass than the two nuclei it was created, and the difference is the mass equivalent amount of energy according to E=mc2.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22242921 - 09/15/15 07:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Gee, I still don't see where I said chop down more trees. Do you see it zappa? Or are you seeing things that aren't there from too much rotgut?

Fusion would be a good thing if and only if its practical and the by products are not too much trouble to deal with. But, it would be a mixed blessing. Idiots breed faster than smart careful people, we see that all around us. The world would shoot up in population and problems would rise exponentially. Global warming would take off and sea levels would rise much faster.

>Do you want to go back to living in caves with 100,000 humans hunting and gathering in the Rift Valley?

I don't know about you but I never lived in caves. You, may well have, perhaps still do. There are still renewables, solar, wind, biomass, etc.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22243014 - 09/15/15 07:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

That is because you edited it out of your post

I ask again.  What do you think can supply enough energy for the human race going forward after it does run out of fossil fuels?

As far as I can tell you do live in a cave


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22243074 - 09/15/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>That is because you edited it out of your post

Anything but admit you were wrong, is that the plan? Lol.

>What do you think can supply enough energy for the human race going forward after it does run out of fossil fuels?

Solar energy, wind, wave, biomass, renewables. Since we won't run out in the near term and since solar becomes more efficient every year, soon everyone will have their own solar panel and not need the electric company. Batteries too will advance. Your car will soak up enough sun to run most days and will run off batteries on other days.

The sunshine we receive every day has thousands of times more energy than we use. We only need to be able to collect a tiny portion to do fine. Fusion might be fine if it ever arrives. We have solar now and it will only get better. Maybe even the pie in the sky quantum computer will pan out some day?


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #22243207 - 09/15/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The post is marked as edited.  You said it

The sunshine we get everyday is a result of what?  Wind turbines chop up millions of birds every year.  Solar panels are hugely polluting because of the materials needed to make them and what you need to do to dispose of them when they are done.  They also only work in certain limited areas.  What are you gonna do in the nrth during the winter?  Wave?  :lolsy: Nice idea.  How's that gonna play in Peoria which is about 1000 miles or so from any ocean.  Biomass?  You are basically burning carbon.  How is that an improvement?  It also puts a shit ton of particulate pollution in the air

You really have no fucking clue, do you?  Fossil is what has driven our wealth.  Nuclear helps and so does hydro but if we are going to continue to be out of caves after the next few centuries we need fusion.  Everything else is temporary.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22243278 - 09/15/15 08:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>The post is marked as edited.

No it isn't. I went back and looked just in case I was nuts but no, its you who are nuts or have resorted to lying. Come on, everyone is wrong now and then. Do you really think you are a god or something? I suppose just like enlil you will go silent when you finally realize your mistake.

>Solar panels are hugely polluting because of the materials needed to make them and what you need to do to dispose of them when they are done

They are less polluting than fossil fuels and I already said they needed more work to become practical. Your fusion idea doesn't even work at all right now.

>Biomass?  You are basically burning carbon.  How is that an improvement?  It also puts a shit ton of particulate pollution in the air

There are other ways to use biomass but in any case, the plants absorb co2 when they are growing so its a net zero, no co2 is produced. You didn't know that did you? What did you get on the science quiz, 3 right?

Educate yourself

http://www.txses.org/solar/content/solar-energy-facts-you-should-know
The amount of solar energy that falls on the earth’s surface in 40 minutes equals the total annual energy consumption of all the world’s people. Put differently, 27 years’ worth of worldwide energy consumption equals only one day’s worth of solar energy hitting the earth


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante] * 1
    #22243340 - 09/15/15 08:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck






how misleading. they are ATTEMPTING to produce this, it's still conceptual


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22243380 - 09/15/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Asante said:
in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck






how misleading. they are ATTEMPTING to produce this, it's still conceptual




Exactly!


--------------------
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Hanz]
    #22243472 - 09/15/15 09:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Hanz said:
I've been waiting for this. It's about time. Still, ..skeptical. Fusion has always been elusive.




For a very long time, it has been said to be"20 years away". We may finally be at a point where it really is going to be coming online within 20 years.

I can only hope that is true, as I cannot think of anything else that is likely to assume the role of a primary energy source.

Philo T. Farnsworth, who I believe to be the real inventor of television (then his idea stolen by RCA) spent his  later decades working on the problem of fusion and how to harness it for power. That was like 80 years ago, point being that fusion has been recognized as the/one of the holy grails of science for a long time.

Thanks to the binding energy curve, the lightest elements have extra energy the is released upon fusion into elements higher in atomic number. A nucleus in these light elements is more massive per constituent particle (protons plus neutrons) than the per particle mass of a nucleus in elements of higher atomic number. (i.e., number of protons).

That is, until you get to iron which sits at the low point of the binding energy curve. The you have to start putting energy back into the nucleus to achieve fusion to higher numbers. This is why Hydrogen, at the top of one end, has potential as a fuel as do other super-light elements. Then on the other side, things like Uranium can be fissioned in order to release the extra energy that went into the nucleus, in order to create a stable atom of high atomic number.

The above is a bit of a simplification but it is more or less hoq it works.

ETA: As for the 20 year horizon, I am not referring to the Lockheed version, but just the state of the subject at present. We have finally started to see some promising results in the two largest experimental fusion projects.


Edited by Void_Hawk (09/15/15 09:48 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Void_Hawk] * 2
    #22244802 - 09/16/15 08:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

What does the energy of all the sunlight that falls on earth have to do with anything?  Did you know that fossil fuels are a product of that?  And that it comes from fusion?  That solar cells are useless in the northeastfor at least half the year.

Fusion or loosion.  If we don't get it eventually we are fucked.  Solar and wind are bullshit.  If the sun don't shine electricity goes out.  If the wind don't blow electricity goes out.  Storage for that is in highly toxic batteries.  It's all a pipe dream that you can replace fossil fuels with that crap.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22244818 - 09/16/15 08:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

no no if solar panels were more efficient it would produce so much power it wouldnt matter.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22244832 - 09/16/15 08:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
but it weights 300-1000 tons???????  how does that fit on a pickup truck?




Do you not watch truck commercials? You can already land planes in the beds of them, think what will be possible in 10 years.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22244836 - 09/16/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What does the energy of all the sunlight that falls on earth have to do with anything?  Did you know that fossil fuels are a product of that?  And that it comes from fusion?  That solar cells are useless in the northeastfor at least half the year.

Fusion or loosion.  If we don't get it eventually we are fucked.  Solar and wind are bullshit.  If the sun don't shine electricity goes out.  If the wind don't blow electricity goes out.  Storage for that is in highly toxic batteries.  It's all a pipe dream that you can replace fossil fuels with that crap.




Why does harnessing solar or wind have to be toxic?


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22244858 - 09/16/15 08:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Everything we do or deal with is "toxic". It's an empty argument.

I don't get why nuclear and solar/wind would be opposing camps. Especially the combination of both is interesting for the future energy mix. Augmented with several other sources of course. We don't need one single solution. We need many.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #22244863 - 09/16/15 08:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
no no if solar panels were more efficient it would produce so much power it wouldnt matter.




Of course. I do believe there will be a place for fusion even then because some things require huge amounts of energy and you don't want to lay out large amounts of solar panels in the city. So either fusion or old technology will continue to be used in spots but solar is the way to go.

They may have a new paint some day that produces electricity. I should start a thread "DuPont produces solar paint in 10 years" :laugh:

One of these days zappa will admit he was wrong about something instead of huffing and puffing to save his ego. :wink: But don't count on it.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koraks]
    #22245035 - 09/16/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Everything we do or deal with is "toxic". It's an empty argument.

I don't get why nuclear and solar/wind would be opposing camps. Especially the combination of both is interesting for the future energy mix. Augmented with several other sources of course. We don't need one single solution. We need many.



:whathesaid:


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22245056 - 09/16/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

What if we built a gigantic space station with the most hi-tech state of the art solar panels which was strategically sent into orbit around the Sun in space where it could harness a constant flow of solar energy and wirelessly re-route it to receiver stations which would be in orbit around the Earth and beam the energy down to us

I should write a science fiction novel


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22245129 - 09/16/15 09:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What does the energy of all the sunlight that falls on earth have to do with anything?  Did you know that fossil fuels are a product of that?  And that it comes from fusion?  That solar cells are useless in the northeastfor at least half the year.

Fusion or loosion.  If we don't get it eventually we are fucked.  Solar and wind are bullshit.  If the sun don't shine electricity goes out.  If the wind don't blow electricity goes out.  Storage for that is in highly toxic batteries.  It's all a pipe dream that you can replace fossil fuels with that crap.




Why does harnessing solar or wind have to be toxic?



Do you know how they make them?  Do you know how toxic the batteries needed to store the power through the night are?  Do you know how many birds turbines chop up?  How is solar gonna work in Maine?  In the winter?  How useful are wind turbines gonna be in highly populated areas?  Where do you keep the batteries and how do you dispose of them when they are spent?.  Where do you dispose of them?  How much does all this bullshit cost?  A lot more than nuclear.  It wouldn't exist if it wasn't subsidized by taxpaying victims.  It is economically unfeasible.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koraks] * 2
    #22245134 - 09/16/15 09:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Everything we do or deal with is "toxic". It's an empty argument.

I don't get why nuclear and solar/wind would be opposing camps. Especially the combination of both is interesting for the future energy mix. Augmented with several other sources of course. We don't need one single solution. We need many.



No.  We need one.  Fusion.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod] * 2
    #22245209 - 09/16/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

This is one of those creepy moments when Zappaisgod and I completely agree. :uhoh:

We need powerplants of raw concentrated power on a small surface area. By raw concentrated power I mean, one plant that puts out one or several GIGAwatts on a steady basis.

We have four things that really do that.

-A Hydroelectric Dam.
Obviously, that only works on very few places in the world.

-A Fossil Fuel plant.
Can't do that anymore. Too polluting and soon, EXTINCT.

-A Nuclear (Fission) Power plant.
We can do this for a few hundred years more, then we are stuck with another energy crisis and lots of highly radioactive waste that will stay hot for thousands of years and lots of countries who will have built nukes from their fuel. Fission plants are TOO COSTLY to build, maintain and most of all, to dismantle. In addition, Thorium, Uranium and Plutonium fuels are too valuable for the exploration of outer space so waste these strategic resources on energy production.

-A Fusion Plant.
This is the future. The FUTURE. Turning ubiquitous, cheap, nonradioactive light elements (Hydrogen, Deuterium, Lithium, Boron) into energy and minimal radioactive waste. Once we master neutronic fusion we are close to mastering aneutronic fusion, and the latter produces NO RADIOACTIVE WASTE AT ALL.

Fusion is the only realistic option for a powerplant of raw concentrated power on a small surface area.

We need these powerful reactors to power cities and produce fuels for our vehicles and fuel cells.

Wind is not realistic. Wind is too variable and a little decrease in wind causes the generated energy to plummet - and its barely cost effective.

Solar just isnt power dense and quite expensive.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck *DELETED* [Re: Asante]
    #22245213 - 09/16/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Asante

Reason for deletion: offtopic post, handled in PM



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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante]
    #22245296 - 09/16/15 10:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22245379 - 09/16/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What does the energy of all the sunlight that falls on earth have to do with anything?  Did you know that fossil fuels are a product of that?  And that it comes from fusion?  That solar cells are useless in the northeastfor at least half the year.

Fusion or loosion.  If we don't get it eventually we are fucked.  Solar and wind are bullshit.  If the sun don't shine electricity goes out.  If the wind don't blow electricity goes out.  Storage for that is in highly toxic batteries.  It's all a pipe dream that you can replace fossil fuels with that crap.




Why does harnessing solar or wind have to be toxic?



Do you know how they make them?  Do you know how toxic the batteries needed to store the power through the night are?  Do you know how many birds turbines chop up?  How is solar gonna work in Maine?  In the winter?  How useful are wind turbines gonna be in highly populated areas?  Where do you keep the batteries and how do you dispose of them when they are spent?.  Where do you dispose of them?  How much does all this bullshit cost?  A lot more than nuclear.  It wouldn't exist if it wasn't subsidized by taxpaying victims.  It is economically unfeasible.




Economically unfeasible says the "fusion reactor or nothing" professor.

Fusion reactors are realistic, but non-toxic energy storage systems aren't?

And what the fuck does geographical location of energy sources have to with it? Does only West Virginia burn coal? Does only Saudi Arabia have internal combustion engines?

You clearly haven't thought this through.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante]
    #22245381 - 09/16/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
We need powerplants of raw concentrated power on a small surface area.



Not only and not necessarily.

Quote:

Wind is not realistic. Wind is too variable and a little decrease in wind causes the generated energy to plummet - and its barely cost effective.

Solar just isnt power dense and quite expensive.



The arguments of cost effectiveness at this stage are premature. We have barely started rolling these technologies out on any significant scale. Moreover, the cost comparison is always made with current cost levels, which are based on fossil fuels. We all know that in those prices, negative externalities (such as environmental costs and costs associated with health risks) are only marginally discounted.

In addition, the argument relying on the intermittent nature of sources such as tidal energy, solar power and wind all work on the assumption that two elements of the energy system will never change: (1) adjustment of demand to supply and (2) large-scale energy storage (of which chemical storage using batteries is just one out of several options).

Arguing at this point that we need only one energy source or that we will ultimately end up with just one is marching way too far ahead of the band. Premature speculation.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22245440 - 09/16/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What does the energy of all the sunlight that falls on earth have to do with anything?  Did you know that fossil fuels are a product of that?  And that it comes from fusion?  That solar cells are useless in the northeastfor at least half the year.

Fusion or loosion.  If we don't get it eventually we are fucked.  Solar and wind are bullshit.  If the sun don't shine electricity goes out.  If the wind don't blow electricity goes out.  Storage for that is in highly toxic batteries.  It's all a pipe dream that you can replace fossil fuels with that crap.




Why does harnessing solar or wind have to be toxic?



Do you know how they make them?  Do you know how toxic the batteries needed to store the power through the night are?  Do you know how many birds turbines chop up?  How is solar gonna work in Maine?  In the winter?  How useful are wind turbines gonna be in highly populated areas?  Where do you keep the batteries and how do you dispose of them when they are spent?.  Where do you dispose of them?  How much does all this bullshit cost?  A lot more than nuclear.  It wouldn't exist if it wasn't subsidized by taxpaying victims.  It is economically unfeasible.




Economically unfeasible says the "fusion reactor or nothing" professor.

Fusion reactors are realistic, but non-toxic energy storage systems aren't?

And what the fuck does geographical location of energy sources have to with it? Does only West Virginia burn coal? Does only Saudi Arabia have internal combustion engines?

You clearly haven't thought this through.




Yes I have.  You can put coal on trains.  You can put oil on trucks and trains. How you gonna move solar energy from the sunshine state to Maine?  And are you gonna cover the whole state with solar panels?  You gonna evacuate San Diego to feed electricity to the incredibly rainy PNW?  Do you have any idea what kind of infrastructure it would take and the energy loss across that many of miles?  Then what do you do for heat in the winter?  Electric heat?  There is a reason it is the most expensive.  Wood burning stoves?  They are the most polluting of all.  No, grasshopper, 'tis you who has not thought this through.  Until we get fusion we are wedded to fossil fuels.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koraks]
    #22245458 - 09/16/15 11:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Tidal is constant but limited.  Geothermal is constant but an excellent investment for heating and cooling a home.  Wind and solar are crap.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22245534 - 09/16/15 11:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Especially deep geothermal is interesting, if the location allows it. Shallow-depth seasonal thermal energy storage is a good solution as well and much less dependent on local conditions. However, in many places, it's only used for heating currently, which is unsustainable in the long run.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22245598 - 09/16/15 11:49 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

....

Yes I have.  You can put coal on trains.  You can put oil on trucks and trains. How you gonna move solar energy from the sunshine state to Maine?  And are you gonna cover the whole state with solar panels?  You gonna evacuate San Diego to feed electricity to the incredibly rainy PNW?  Do you have any idea what kind of infrastructure it would take and the energy loss across that many of miles?  Then what do you do for heat in the winter?  Electric heat?  There is a reason it is the most expensive.  Wood burning stoves?  They are the most polluting of all.  No, grasshopper, 'tis you who has not thought this through.  Until we get fusion we are wedded to fossil fuels.





You'd be way better off arguing in favor of nuclear fission power than fusion. It already works, but it doesn't currently compete with fossil fuels all that well. Fusion power is going to rely heavily on fission reactors for a good while if it works worth a damn at all. If you've read through the wiki a bit, you'll see that there are already many fission reactors that are capable of producing meaningful amounts of power. The trouble is that they all suck at it for the most part, and the energy that they produce isn't cost justified. Fusion power will be a step down in efficiency from fission for a good while (maybe forever). You're not thinking far enough ahead into the future. We need to work on more powerful and more efficient sources of renewable energy if we don't want o be super fucked in the next few hundred years. Stuff like solar and wind power has a lot of room for improvement, and it works pretty well in places where people have the sense not to bitch about their view being fucked up while they sit in freezing cold air conditioned rooms. You guys need to put down the scifi or at least pick up some better scifi. Fission is for the future of the war machine, not the future of humanity.


EDIT: that infrastructure that you're talking about might already exist BTW. I haven't checked in a while, but power definitely flows between states on a large scale. It is all pretty lossy though.


Edited by Mr.GuessWork (09/16/15 11:50 AM)


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #22245654 - 09/16/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Fusion power is going to rely heavily on fission reactors for a good while



No, not necessarily. Tritium breeding can in principle be done in the same fusion reactor that burns it. It's a key element of the ITER project.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koraks]
    #22245742 - 09/16/15 12:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Asante said:
We need powerplants of raw concentrated power on a small surface area.



Not only and not necessarily.

Quote:

Wind is not realistic. Wind is too variable and a little decrease in wind causes the generated energy to plummet - and its barely cost effective.

Solar just isnt power dense and quite expensive.



The arguments of cost effectiveness at this stage are premature. We have barely started rolling these technologies out on any significant scale. Moreover, the cost comparison is always made with current cost levels, which are based on fossil fuels. We all know that in those prices, negative externalities (such as environmental costs and costs associated with health risks) are only marginally discounted.

In addition, the argument relying on the intermittent nature of sources such as tidal energy, solar power and wind all work on the assumption that two elements of the energy system will never change: (1) adjustment of demand to supply and (2) large-scale energy storage (of which chemical storage using batteries is just one out of several options).

Arguing at this point that we need only one energy source or that we will ultimately end up with just one is marching way too far ahead of the band. Premature speculation.




Correct. Its amusing that the fusion fanatics talk about something we don't have as though it was already here while discounting things like solar based on today's technology. If we are going to talk about pie in the sky fusion, then we can talk about advanced solar as well. 50 years ago solar cost maybe 10x as much as conventional if not more. Now its somewhat competitive and the cost keeps dropping. You are not going to put a fusion plant in a car or in your pocket, that is pure fantasy. But you can put solar on your car even today, and clothes can be made to produce electricity to cool or heat the wearer or to charge their phones.

The roof of most buildings provides enough power to run it during the day and extra that can be stored. Even if other power is used at night, daytime power is nice to have. Ever had the power go out? It will keep happening.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22245774 - 09/16/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
But you can put solar on your car even today, and clothes can be made to produce electricity to cool or heat the wearer or to charge their phones.



These examples are a bit unfortunately chosen. The solar panel on your car will provide 1-5% of the car's energy requirement on a good day. Cooling your body with solar-generated electricity runs into the same problem (for starters). Heating your body with solar-generated electricity is obviously a silly idea. The phone charging idea is viable though, and usable even today.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koraks]
    #22245787 - 09/16/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

He is a walking talking :picard:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22245796 - 09/16/15 12:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Yes I have.  You can put coal on trains.  You can put oil on trucks and trains. How you gonna move solar energy from the sunshine state to Maine?  And are you gonna cover the whole state with solar panels?  You gonna evacuate San Diego to feed electricity to the incredibly rainy PNW?  Do you have any idea what kind of infrastructure it would take and the energy loss across that many of miles?  Then what do you do for heat in the winter?  Electric heat?  There is a reason it is the most expensive.  Wood burning stoves?  They are the most polluting of all.  No, grasshopper, 'tis you who has not thought this through.  Until we get fusion we are wedded to fossil fuels.




Trains moving coal run on coal, energy lost.

All the costs associated with distributing solar power are the same costs associated with distributing any other kind of power.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22245829 - 09/16/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

No.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22245853 - 09/16/15 12:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The costs aren't numerically identical, but extraction, infrastructure, distribution, and transportation are all appplicable across the board.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koraks]
    #22245961 - 09/16/15 12:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
But you can put solar on your car even today, and clothes can be made to produce electricity to cool or heat the wearer or to charge their phones.



These examples are a bit unfortunately chosen. The solar panel on your car will provide 1-5% of the car's energy requirement on a good day. Cooling your body with solar-generated electricity runs into the same problem (for starters). Heating your body with solar-generated electricity is obviously a silly idea. The phone charging idea is viable though, and usable even today.




Did I say solar would power your whole car today? No I didn't. They do have totally solar powered cars now but they are specialty cars. Now we have solar panels they will ventilate your car while its out in the sun or charge your stuff. Some day solar and batteries will advance to the point you will seldom need any other power source as long as you park outdoors. Likewise with clothing. Homes will run mostly off solar. The fusion fools talk about stuff we don't have and may never have but when I talk about future solar, they all say it can't be done.

Sap, uh I mean zap, drag your knuckles over to some other thread. This one is for grown ups.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante]
    #22245984 - 09/16/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

As amazing as fusion is as an energy source, humans all too often ignore the biggest source of this energy they have, the sun. I think in 5 years if we as a species put our heads together we could have clean burning fossil fuels made from augmented algae and the like, cheaper than gasoline.
Petro derived solar cells even keep getting better. http://www.gizmag.com/transparent-perovskite-solar-cells-graphene-electrodes/39349/
Also if we put our own biochemical energy to use better, there would be less need for grid juice.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Dest]
    #22246029 - 09/16/15 01:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The sun is fusion.  We need to make our own suns. 

Stonehenge has been hitting the pipe a bit hard.  He never answers the question about energy storage and battery disposal nor does he address the issues of geography.  Yeah, it is feasible.  In San Diego.  New York?  Not so much.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22246226 - 09/16/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

we just need to harness lightening bolts, zeus did it, why can't we?


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22246262 - 09/16/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Not enough energy


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22246563 - 09/16/15 03:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Zap never answers the question of how are we going to make fusion work?


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22246630 - 09/16/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Not enough energy




I thought a single lightening bolt had 2x00x0xx0x0x0xx00 kw of energy?


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22246670 - 09/16/15 03:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Zap never answers the question of how are we going to make fusion work?



Send enormous amounts of money that we are wasting on bullshit like solar to smart people and make it a priority.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22246675 - 09/16/15 03:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Not enough energy




I thought a single lightening bolt had 2x00x0xx0x0x0xx00 kw of energy?




It didn't even kill Ben Franklin and he was a fat old fuck.


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22246696 - 09/16/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

that's because he used a tiny string, which gives me an idea.  We make a REALLY LONG STRING to slow the lightening down, then at the very end we plug it into a house and it'll be like normal AC.  Then we just setup Keys in the sky everywhere and have strings that go to our REALLY LONG STRING to feed it from all the different storms.  @Patent Pending

ALso these scientists managed to use the power of lightening to go BAACK TO THE FUTURE so you can't sit there and try to say it isn't powerful



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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22246853 - 09/16/15 04:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Zap never answers the question of how are we going to make fusion work?



Send enormous amounts of money that we are wasting on bullshit like solar to smart people and make it a priority.




That's how we make solar work

Send enormous amounts of money that we are wasting on bullshit like syria to smart people and make it a priority

But you would rather kill arabs, am I right?


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22246862 - 09/16/15 04:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

fusion is like sciences version of god

lets improve what we have, rather than invest in fairy tales.  Solar, wind, water, harvesting bugs and converting them to fuel, ect


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22246872 - 09/16/15 04:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Fusion is not a fairy tale and we have sent billions down the solar rathole.  Remember Solyndra?


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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22246888 - 09/16/15 04:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Solar is hardly a dead end. Most people end up selling electricity back to the power company and the energy you get from solar is most abundant at exactly the same time you need it - in the middle of a hot summer day running the a/c.

Zappa, your opinion of alternative energy sources seems to be very clouded by your political ideology.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (09/16/15 04:44 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koods]
    #22246912 - 09/16/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Not at all.  You have the causality arrow pointed the wrong way.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Registered: 02/28/06
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koods]
    #22246919 - 09/16/15 04:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

speaking of hot summer days, they developed this new shit that tints like those fancy sunglasses, except it blocks heat radiation too instead of UV or along with it.  So that will be cutting down on energy costs in the future, I could see them making like a retractable roof over houses with that stuff or something. 

There's a lot of technology in solar that's right at the edge of breakthroughs that could increase the efficiency greatly, and tied into the power grid, people who have light can power the people who currently don't. so that way it wont really matter about night time


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koods]
    #22247036 - 09/16/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:

Zappa, your opinion of (name it) seems to be very clouded by your political ideology.







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