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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante]
    #22242567 - 09/15/15 06:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
A breakthrough in alternative energy. This sounds very promising for the future.

100 megawatts is a lot of power, about a tenth of a commercial power plant.

ARTICLE

High Beta Fusion Reactor




Is this the intercourse towards Deuterium&Thorium reactors?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22242659 - 09/15/15 06:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Why would we need to chop down more trees...

I never said that. You start right off with a strawman




Before you edited it
Quote:



>produce more pollution and greenhouse gases if we have fusion?

We don't have it and we have no idea how much pollution it will produce. However, humans living in dense cities produce mega tons of pollution in the form of garbage, sewage, co2, etc. The factories and farms that produce what we need also produce pollution.

>Fusion is our savior.

Talk about being clueless... You try to tell us what fusion will be like when not even the scientists know the answers let alone a knuckle dragging nail pounder. Do you believe everything you are told? Sounds like it.




We need fusion. If we do not get fusion we are fucked eventually. 

Good fucking zappa.  Do you want to go back to living in caves with 100,000 humans hunting and gathering in the Rift Valley?  What is your answer to human energy needs?  Genocide?


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Onlinekoods
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22242772 - 09/15/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Why would we need to chop down more trees...

I never said that. You start right off with a strawman

>produce more pollution and greenhouse gases if we have fusion?

We don't have it and we have no idea how much pollution it will produce. However, humans living in dense cities produce mega tons of pollution in the form of garbage, sewage, co2, etc. The factories and farms that produce what we need also produce pollution.

>Fusion is our savior.

Talk about being clueless... You try to tell us what fusion will be like when not even the scientists know the answers let alone a knuckle dragging nail pounder. Do you believe everything you are told? Sounds like it.




Fusion is when smaller atomic nuclei are combined into one larger atomic nuclei. Most certainly, man-made fusion reactors will be using a form of hydrogen as fuel, maybe in the form of heavy water.

When hydrogen nuclei fuse they result in a helium nuclei that has a slightly lower mass than the two nuclei it was created, and the difference is the mass equivalent amount of energy according to E=mc2.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22242921 - 09/15/15 07:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Gee, I still don't see where I said chop down more trees. Do you see it zappa? Or are you seeing things that aren't there from too much rotgut?

Fusion would be a good thing if and only if its practical and the by products are not too much trouble to deal with. But, it would be a mixed blessing. Idiots breed faster than smart careful people, we see that all around us. The world would shoot up in population and problems would rise exponentially. Global warming would take off and sea levels would rise much faster.

>Do you want to go back to living in caves with 100,000 humans hunting and gathering in the Rift Valley?

I don't know about you but I never lived in caves. You, may well have, perhaps still do. There are still renewables, solar, wind, biomass, etc.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22243014 - 09/15/15 07:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

That is because you edited it out of your post

I ask again.  What do you think can supply enough energy for the human race going forward after it does run out of fossil fuels?

As far as I can tell you do live in a cave


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22243074 - 09/15/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>That is because you edited it out of your post

Anything but admit you were wrong, is that the plan? Lol.

>What do you think can supply enough energy for the human race going forward after it does run out of fossil fuels?

Solar energy, wind, wave, biomass, renewables. Since we won't run out in the near term and since solar becomes more efficient every year, soon everyone will have their own solar panel and not need the electric company. Batteries too will advance. Your car will soak up enough sun to run most days and will run off batteries on other days.

The sunshine we receive every day has thousands of times more energy than we use. We only need to be able to collect a tiny portion to do fine. Fusion might be fine if it ever arrives. We have solar now and it will only get better. Maybe even the pie in the sky quantum computer will pan out some day?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #22243207 - 09/15/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The post is marked as edited.  You said it

The sunshine we get everyday is a result of what?  Wind turbines chop up millions of birds every year.  Solar panels are hugely polluting because of the materials needed to make them and what you need to do to dispose of them when they are done.  They also only work in certain limited areas.  What are you gonna do in the nrth during the winter?  Wave?  :lolsy: Nice idea.  How's that gonna play in Peoria which is about 1000 miles or so from any ocean.  Biomass?  You are basically burning carbon.  How is that an improvement?  It also puts a shit ton of particulate pollution in the air

You really have no fucking clue, do you?  Fossil is what has driven our wealth.  Nuclear helps and so does hydro but if we are going to continue to be out of caves after the next few centuries we need fusion.  Everything else is temporary.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22243278 - 09/15/15 08:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>The post is marked as edited.

No it isn't. I went back and looked just in case I was nuts but no, its you who are nuts or have resorted to lying. Come on, everyone is wrong now and then. Do you really think you are a god or something? I suppose just like enlil you will go silent when you finally realize your mistake.

>Solar panels are hugely polluting because of the materials needed to make them and what you need to do to dispose of them when they are done

They are less polluting than fossil fuels and I already said they needed more work to become practical. Your fusion idea doesn't even work at all right now.

>Biomass?  You are basically burning carbon.  How is that an improvement?  It also puts a shit ton of particulate pollution in the air

There are other ways to use biomass but in any case, the plants absorb co2 when they are growing so its a net zero, no co2 is produced. You didn't know that did you? What did you get on the science quiz, 3 right?

Educate yourself

http://www.txses.org/solar/content/solar-energy-facts-you-should-know
The amount of solar energy that falls on the earth’s surface in 40 minutes equals the total annual energy consumption of all the world’s people. Put differently, 27 years’ worth of worldwide energy consumption equals only one day’s worth of solar energy hitting the earth


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Asante] * 1
    #22243340 - 09/15/15 08:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck






how misleading. they are ATTEMPTING to produce this, it's still conceptual


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22243380 - 09/15/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Asante said:
in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck






how misleading. they are ATTEMPTING to produce this, it's still conceptual




Exactly!


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleVoid_Hawk
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Loc: Sol 3
Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Hanz]
    #22243472 - 09/15/15 09:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Hanz said:
I've been waiting for this. It's about time. Still, ..skeptical. Fusion has always been elusive.




For a very long time, it has been said to be"20 years away". We may finally be at a point where it really is going to be coming online within 20 years.

I can only hope that is true, as I cannot think of anything else that is likely to assume the role of a primary energy source.

Philo T. Farnsworth, who I believe to be the real inventor of television (then his idea stolen by RCA) spent his  later decades working on the problem of fusion and how to harness it for power. That was like 80 years ago, point being that fusion has been recognized as the/one of the holy grails of science for a long time.

Thanks to the binding energy curve, the lightest elements have extra energy the is released upon fusion into elements higher in atomic number. A nucleus in these light elements is more massive per constituent particle (protons plus neutrons) than the per particle mass of a nucleus in elements of higher atomic number. (i.e., number of protons).

That is, until you get to iron which sits at the low point of the binding energy curve. The you have to start putting energy back into the nucleus to achieve fusion to higher numbers. This is why Hydrogen, at the top of one end, has potential as a fuel as do other super-light elements. Then on the other side, things like Uranium can be fissioned in order to release the extra energy that went into the nucleus, in order to create a stable atom of high atomic number.

The above is a bit of a simplification but it is more or less hoq it works.

ETA: As for the 20 year horizon, I am not referring to the Lockheed version, but just the state of the subject at present. We have finally started to see some promising results in the two largest experimental fusion projects.


Edited by Void_Hawk (09/15/15 09:48 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Void_Hawk] * 2
    #22244802 - 09/16/15 08:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

What does the energy of all the sunlight that falls on earth have to do with anything?  Did you know that fossil fuels are a product of that?  And that it comes from fusion?  That solar cells are useless in the northeastfor at least half the year.

Fusion or loosion.  If we don't get it eventually we are fucked.  Solar and wind are bullshit.  If the sun don't shine electricity goes out.  If the wind don't blow electricity goes out.  Storage for that is in highly toxic batteries.  It's all a pipe dream that you can replace fossil fuels with that crap.


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OnlineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22244818 - 09/16/15 08:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

no no if solar panels were more efficient it would produce so much power it wouldnt matter.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22244832 - 09/16/15 08:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
but it weights 300-1000 tons???????  how does that fit on a pickup truck?




Do you not watch truck commercials? You can already land planes in the beds of them, think what will be possible in 10 years.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22244836 - 09/16/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What does the energy of all the sunlight that falls on earth have to do with anything?  Did you know that fossil fuels are a product of that?  And that it comes from fusion?  That solar cells are useless in the northeastfor at least half the year.

Fusion or loosion.  If we don't get it eventually we are fucked.  Solar and wind are bullshit.  If the sun don't shine electricity goes out.  If the wind don't blow electricity goes out.  Storage for that is in highly toxic batteries.  It's all a pipe dream that you can replace fossil fuels with that crap.




Why does harnessing solar or wind have to be toxic?


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22244858 - 09/16/15 08:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Everything we do or deal with is "toxic". It's an empty argument.

I don't get why nuclear and solar/wind would be opposing camps. Especially the combination of both is interesting for the future energy mix. Augmented with several other sources of course. We don't need one single solution. We need many.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #22244863 - 09/16/15 08:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
no no if solar panels were more efficient it would produce so much power it wouldnt matter.




Of course. I do believe there will be a place for fusion even then because some things require huge amounts of energy and you don't want to lay out large amounts of solar panels in the city. So either fusion or old technology will continue to be used in spots but solar is the way to go.

They may have a new paint some day that produces electricity. I should start a thread "DuPont produces solar paint in 10 years" :laugh:

One of these days zappa will admit he was wrong about something instead of huffing and puffing to save his ego. :wink: But don't count on it.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: koraks]
    #22245035 - 09/16/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Everything we do or deal with is "toxic". It's an empty argument.

I don't get why nuclear and solar/wind would be opposing camps. Especially the combination of both is interesting for the future energy mix. Augmented with several other sources of course. We don't need one single solution. We need many.



:whathesaid:


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Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein


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InvisibleOhMrJohnson
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22245056 - 09/16/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

What if we built a gigantic space station with the most hi-tech state of the art solar panels which was strategically sent into orbit around the Sun in space where it could harness a constant flow of solar energy and wirelessly re-route it to receiver stations which would be in orbit around the Earth and beam the energy down to us

I should write a science fiction novel


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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace..
Once and for all!


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: in 10 years Lockheed produces a 100 MW Fusion Power Plant that fits on the back of a truck [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22245129 - 09/16/15 09:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What does the energy of all the sunlight that falls on earth have to do with anything?  Did you know that fossil fuels are a product of that?  And that it comes from fusion?  That solar cells are useless in the northeastfor at least half the year.

Fusion or loosion.  If we don't get it eventually we are fucked.  Solar and wind are bullshit.  If the sun don't shine electricity goes out.  If the wind don't blow electricity goes out.  Storage for that is in highly toxic batteries.  It's all a pipe dream that you can replace fossil fuels with that crap.




Why does harnessing solar or wind have to be toxic?



Do you know how they make them?  Do you know how toxic the batteries needed to store the power through the night are?  Do you know how many birds turbines chop up?  How is solar gonna work in Maine?  In the winter?  How useful are wind turbines gonna be in highly populated areas?  Where do you keep the batteries and how do you dispose of them when they are spent?.  Where do you dispose of them?  How much does all this bullshit cost?  A lot more than nuclear.  It wouldn't exist if it wasn't subsidized by taxpaying victims.  It is economically unfeasible.


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