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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28566639 - 12/03/23 11:41 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

this is a great list
but does it have to be "real" hahaha!


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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28566666 - 12/03/23 11:59 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Thank you
You're right, real is just a subjective and unnecessary word in this context


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28566687 - 12/03/23 12:13 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

self respecting man perhaps - that fits easily enough


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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28566728 - 12/03/23 12:40 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Hmmm, I like that


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28567008 - 12/03/23 04:28 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

I like your answer, but I think everyone could do that. A real man. I mean mostly this is a metaphor, no? I know I'm a man, but I'm an exclusively homosexual, trance-listening, poetry and philosophy writing bookworm... Not really a "real man." I think the association I have immediately to the construction 'real man' is something like an usually stoic man with epicurean tendencies on the DL, who provides for his children, gives back to the community, enables his wife to persue her dreams. I mean you have people advocating for a breakdown of the nuclear family, and with that a 'real man' might become the type of just ultra masculinity, maybe like a gladiator in Rome, though they were looked down upon by society - even if they were rich. I have no idea. I was raised in the South and they would say a real man is someone who works all day, drinks all night, and recites the Bible on Sundays, or something like that... and also "huntin', fishin', muddin'." I guess it's up to you. I just think I'm a weird advanced monkey. The question is really not so cut and dry, and really may bring up many questions. Frankly many of the conclusions one could draw I find absurd.

I guess this was a long IDK


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28567023 - 12/03/23 04:36 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

you do know
cowboy!


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28567032 - 12/03/23 04:43 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

lol brokeback mountain?

Seriously though, what is it?


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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: Blue_Lux] * 1
    #28567034 - 12/03/23 04:43 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

I don’t think being gay or into traditionally non-masculine things like poetry exclude someone from being considered a real man. Some would say it does though so I get where you’re coming from
To me a man is to be  less likely swayed by emotion and sticks to his guns. I mean no offense to women who are by nature more emotionally driven
As this song describes, a man decides what’s right for his life and everyone has their own way of doing it
si=J-ogs3N8E4WwcTt3


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28567035 - 12/03/23 04:43 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Did you ignore me, RGV's? :sad:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28567053 - 12/03/23 04:54 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Blue_Lux said:
lol brokeback mountain?

Seriously though, what is it?



it is as confusing as any identity quest is,
and it is as oppressive as any social expectation.

but it is also an age old challenge - contextually, and literally.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28567076 - 12/03/23 05:10 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Quote:

What is a "real" man?




I'm a real man.

:mypleasure:


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28567078 - 12/03/23 05:12 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

okay I have to post this. and I will translate it for you. This is going to be highly explicit, but I will say maybe Catullus had something to say about a real man . . .
:rotfl::lmafo:

Catullus 16

Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo,
Aureli pathice et cinaede Furi,
qui me ex versiculis meis putastis,
quod sunt molliculi, parum pudicum.
nam castum esse decet pium poetam
ipsum, versiculos nihil necesse est,
qui tum denique habent salem ac leporem,
si sunt molliculi ac parum pudici
et quod pruriat incitare possunt,
non dico pueris, sed his pilosis,
qui duros nequeunt movere lumbos.
vos quod milia multa basiorum
legistis, male me marem putatis?
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo.

okay the poem employs a few ambiguities, which are very clever but outrageous. I found a good translation and altered it slightly.

I will f*ck you up the *ss down the throat,
c*cksucker Aurelius and f*ggot Furius,
who think, from my little verses,
because they're a little soft, that I have no shame.
seeing that it's fitting for a poet to be morally pure,
but it's not necessary for his verses to be so.
which then indeed have taste and charm,
If they are delicate and have no shame,
And because they can incite an itch,
And I don't mean in boys, but in
Those hairy men who can't move their loins.
You, because my many thousands of kisses
You've read, you think me less of a man?
I'll f*ck you in the *ss and skull-f*ck you

clearly many people have different ideas. excuse the harsh language. He is saying basically his verses will destroy his critics utterly and completely.


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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28567084 - 12/03/23 05:16 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

He sounds more like a little boy lashing out at critics
Also he sounds pretty insecure in himself


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28567088 - 12/03/23 05:20 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

it's the stirrups
without the horse


very perforational cowboy


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28567098 - 12/03/23 05:25 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

he uses many tricks of words in it that make more sense, like pudicum and he mixes up shame and modesty and bashfulness in words that cannot be translated with the same entendres in English. His critics were basically actually the macho aggressive male type accusing him of being soft and denying male masculinity, so he basically flips that upside down and does all kinds of tricks, and then ends saying he will destroy them with their own tactics. It's the same sort of thing rappers do today. But his other poems are all about all kinds of other things regarding love.

And he literally calls them little boy fuckers basically


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28567118 - 12/03/23 05:34 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

quod sunt molliculi, parum pudicum.
nam castum esse decet pium poetam
ipsum, versiculos nihil necesse est,
qui tum denique habent salem ac leporem,
si sunt molliculi ac parum pudici
et quod pruriat incitare possunt,
non dico pueris, sed his pilosis,

okay whatever

this is the part confusing things because in english it sounds like pedophilia, but by 'boy' they really mean beardless, and it was extremely common for men in their 30s and up to have younger beardless men as their butt buddy basically. Catullus is actually known for going against this tendency of roles, and he was bisexual. in Rome people were extremely sexual and it was common for teenagers to be legal prostitutes. So obviously the morals are not the same. I just think it is funny how ultra masculinity works and it can easily turn into you know the sadist type, and that is what Catullus is also saying.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28567185 - 12/03/23 05:55 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

I was thinking assless leather chaps myself

:laugh2:


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28567199 - 12/03/23 05:59 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

I get a massive kick from outrageous things for some reason. From time to time, please excuse my boorish pleasures.


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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: Blue_Lux] * 2
    #28567256 - 12/03/23 06:26 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Blue_Lux said:
I get a massive kick from outrageous things for some reason. From time to time, please excuse my boorish pleasures.




Nothing wrong with that!
:leocheers:


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28568254 - 12/04/23 12:35 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Quote:

TheStallionMang said:
I don’t think being gay or into traditionally non-masculine things like poetry exclude someone from being considered a real man...




I think that some of the non-traditional hobbies or career choices can be done in a masculine or feminine way.

People, clearly trying to push the boundaries, know what they are doing and are not confused.


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