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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #28589637 - 12/19/23 11:05 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

One problem with planned romanticism is that it's burdened with the obligation to be appreciated.

Valentines Day is a terrible abomination.


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28589639 - 12/19/23 11:06 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

There is no burden of appreciation. You naturally grow to appreciate something.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28589647 - 12/19/23 11:10 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

A real man doesn't plan to be romantic.  I think this is a wise approach.

A real man is romantic spontaneously - without a plan or strategy.


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #28589649 - 12/19/23 11:13 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

A man that wants to have sex with someone does.
Being manly and romantic is an excellent way to get laid.

There’s nothing wrong with spontaneity, but that doesn’t take away from the effectiveness of a planned romantic encounter.


--------------------

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28589667 - 12/19/23 11:29 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
One problem with planned romanticism is that it's burdened with the obligation to be appreciated.





I think this is part of a bigger pattern that has more to do with expectations than plans. I can plan something wihout expectation for how it will turn out. I can intentionally create the circumstances I think will support something  (anything, laughter, fun, seriousness, thinking, feeling, loving, hating, sobriety, .....) without expecting any particular results.





Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
A real man doesn't plan to be romantic.  I think this is a wise approach.

A real man is romantic spontaneously - without a plan or strategy.




I think its a false dichotomy to either plan to be a certain way or to just be completely spontaneous.


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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,689
Loc: Raccoon City
Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28589669 - 12/19/23 11:29 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
There is no burden of appreciation. You naturally grow to appreciate something.




A good patriarch deserves celebrity status in his own castle.

Alot of embittered people were doing that, naturally, without realizing it.

Everclear - Father Of Mine (Official Music Video)


Social engineers who undermine that level of appreciation -- reverence -- are dissembling the family unit.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28589672 - 12/19/23 11:31 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

An alternative to viewing the patriarchy as a vampiric, hungry ghost of the past is filial piety.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #28589767 - 12/19/23 12:34 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
One problem with planned romanticism is that it's burdened with the obligation to be appreciated.

Valentines Day is a terrible abomination.



I agree with this
but so is Santaclaus.
and several other historical-seeming national holiday.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28589870 - 12/19/23 01:50 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Valentine’s Day is a scam that was made to sell cards.

The sentiment is beautiful. Just don’t let people pressure you into buying jewelry because of hallmark making up a holiday.


--------------------

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 2
    #28589908 - 12/19/23 02:25 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

you can make it your own thing

or leave it behind

The hallmark greeting company is controling you both if you buy into it and if you react to it

for me its more important about whats practical and skillful. so if one person feels joy and love and connection with a valnetines present, why not. and if someone else feels repusled by it, then no reason to do that

I think there is something authentic about acknowledging things in a ritualistic way, at least for some people. We can go through rituals dead, or we can bring our life to a ritual and bring it alive and make it genuine.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28589909 - 12/19/23 02:25 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

My daughter sells lotsa stuff around VDay


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28589918 - 12/19/23 02:33 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

St. Valentine, the patron saint of spending some coin in hopes of getting some nookie
:rollsafe:


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 2
    #28590187 - 12/19/23 05:21 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

I hate to be all sappy and buzzkilly, but I really didn't like Valentines Day as a kid, even though I loved Valentine's Day. That's because I wanted to give another boy a card... Shocker. I'm not talking about the ones kids are forced to give to each other. You would receive more cards from your friends but sometimes a more significant and rare specimen would show up from whom thought you were cute. Some of the classmates would give cards to those they "had a crush on." The classes were of about 30 students, ~½ boys/girls. This was not a fun time for me. It made me think excessively about it, and I knew I couldn't say anything to anyone. I was actually sad about this, but, thinking back... It is typical of a child's emotions. I still however remember what it was like. It was simply heartache, and that is not a good feeling at all, especially for a child in school. I find it actually highly irresponsible. It's like, great, yes they may only truly be something like 5% in a population such as ours that has reinforced prejudice about it and in many ways facilitated its common understanding as that of a lower social standing (in some way), but those solid 1/20, which will be in a classroom, ought not be ignored. And this is beside saying how children are reinforced not only to have prejudices against homosexuality, but are reinforced to NOT encounter it. I think this Valentines debacle actually hurt my development during certain elementary school, which I could always fill in the gaps of, because valuable time had been spent thinking about unnecessary feelings, and seeking answers and conclusions. Maybe it is this exact thing that really gave me the initial spark of actually caring about arguments and philosophy, but it was not fun to go through and it is even slightly embarrassing to think about it to this day, which is why I am casting it out into the aether.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm
𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱
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  LXIVAMOR 
Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: Blue_Lux] * 1
    #28590702 - 12/20/23 12:12 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Is a man someone who flirts with danger?

Spy vs spy..

James Bond archetype?

Someone who will save the day and has great taste too!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28590835 - 12/20/23 05:53 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)



--------------------
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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: Freedom] * 2
    #28590841 - 12/20/23 05:58 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
you can make it your own thing

or leave it behind

The hallmark greeting company is controling you both if you buy into it and if you react to it

for me its more important about whats practical and skillful. so if one person feels joy and love and connection with a valnetines present, why not. and if someone else feels repusled by it, then no reason to do that

I think there is something authentic about acknowledging things in a ritualistic way, at least for some people. We can go through rituals dead, or we can bring our life to a ritual and bring it alive and make it genuine.



Completely how I view it. It's not about pressure to do it. It's about letting the people I love know they are loved.
I have never spent a lot on V day. I spend more buying kids stuff then for whomever my partner is. I have received big gifts and received nothing and im ok either way.
I'm interested in authentic expression vs commercialism


--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: BrendanFlock] * 1
    #28597066 - 12/24/23 08:33 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
Is a man someone who flirts with danger?

Spy vs spy..

James Bond archetype?

Someone who will save the day and has great taste too!




Males are more likely to engage in risky behavior but there is an age curve where males and females are more likely to engage in risky/dangerous behavior than their older counterparts. Doesn't always end well.

I can see the appeal of the heroic, but don't consider a "real" man (or woman) to need to be heroic on the level of an archetype.

I hinted earlier that usage was dependent on intent. It could be tongue in cheek. It could be used to belittle. It could be used to connotate sexual/social preference for taking charge. It's also used to connotate a male who is a decent person and did the decent thing which isn't generally about being masculine and can't be characterized as typically male.


--------------------
rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: Rahz]
    #28600919 - 12/28/23 01:44 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

It doesn't have to mean self sacrifice for a futile cause. It can mean fun things that used to scare / piss off your mom.

:frankensmoke:


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28600924 - 12/28/23 01:48 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

The reason why is that Valentine's puts them on a pedestal.  Ask her what she bought you for Valentine's.

A real man is disagreeable.


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28601289 - 12/28/23 05:42 PM (1 month, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
It doesn't have to mean self sacrifice for a futile cause. It can mean fun things that used to scare / piss off your mom.

:frankensmoke:




Haha, exactly. Or it could mean robbing a trap house and getting the address wrong and holding an innocent family at gunpoint.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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