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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,533
Loc:
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: Freedom]
#28583035 - 12/14/23 07:03 PM (1 month, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said: toxic masculinity is pretty awesome.
i see it just as a way for socieities to manipulate men to do scary, painful and dangerous things. Its like a counter to evolutionary fear drives, although funny enough it uses fear or shame (fear of having you image tarnished, losing social standing)
its wild, you can get people to do crazy things, which makes us more adaptable
I'm not sure how your comment ties into toxic masculinity but I don't need anyone to manipulate me into doing scary, painful, dangerous, or even gross things. I do those things because I like to and learned it pays well
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
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Last seen: 53 minutes, 11 seconds
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well on my construction sites the men have some specific ideas of what it means to be included as a man, and they don't fuck around. Someone who shows 'weakness' is ridiculedd and bullied until they leave.
not everyone is motivated by the same things
the pressure to man up is very real in some quarters
also society doesn't manipulate you for your own good. that part of society will put you on the frontlines of a war, or make you do whatever they can. its just attempts of societies and civiliations to survive.
Edited by Freedom (12/14/23 07:10 PM)
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,693
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: Freedom]
#28583046 - 12/14/23 07:08 PM (1 month, 15 days ago) |
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Can you do it and keep your head without dropping your beer.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,856
Last seen: 53 minutes, 11 seconds
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Quote:
durian_2008 said: Can you do it and keep your head without dropping your beer.
why do you think the ladies look at me the way they do
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,693
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: Freedom]
#28583061 - 12/14/23 07:16 PM (1 month, 15 days ago) |
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If my lesbian cousin thinks it funny, it's not toxic.
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,533
Loc:
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: Freedom] 2
#28583062 - 12/14/23 07:17 PM (1 month, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said: well on my construction sites the men have some specific ideas of what it means to be included as a man, and they don't fuck around. Someone who shows 'weakness' is ridiculedd and bullied until they leave.
not everyone is motivated by the same things
the pressure to man up is very real in some quarters
I'm in the same field except I'm the only one giving shit to the other dudes because I like to bust ass and go home tired. To me it's not so much about putting them down for not being manly as much as it is expecting all the men to pull their own weight and be efficient. Even with just 3 guys going at it there is a lot that happens fast and some of us enjoy seeing things get knocked out quick. Plus, being slow drags down the motivated ones and being unfocused can be dangerous to everyone. I deal with a lot of idiocy when working around other peoples' crews and sometimes something needs said
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,693
Loc: Raccoon City
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^1000
Tree service, pneumatics, jackhammers, anything that has to do with fire or high voltage...
The guy with wheat thins and diet soda in his lunch cooler is not going to work a pulley or know how to turn on heavy equipment, guaranteed.
You are now watching like it was bring your kid to work day in a hard hat zone.
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SprewellSleeve



Registered: 03/15/09
Posts: 6,315
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 27 minutes
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Should see Aussie brick layers, short shorts, thongs, a durry n stubby, no shirt, leather tanned skin.
Small contractors have no HR and don't care for OSHA.
Eons ago there were a few construction guys who get fired for cat calling on multiple occasions.
On construction sites and around heavy equipment or powered machinery it sucks to have green workers. You can't watch them 24/7 but almost have to with some individuals..
Where safety is concerned, I understand a hard line 'masculine' stance. You don't want anyone getting hurt in the workplace. Liability is why we have paperwork!
Outside of machinery and construction sites one can chill yknow. Let it go or whatever.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,693
Loc: Raccoon City
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A parable from Aesop -- Lift a small calf every day, as it grows.
from martial arts lore -- Leap over a small, baby tuft of bamboo every day, as it grows.
Some of these people couldn't toss a rope, use a measuring tape, and would not watch out for bone rattling, big equipment.
Why not?
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,693
Loc: Raccoon City
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 11 hours, 57 minutes
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Quote:
Freedom said:
toxic masculinity is pretty awesome.
i see it just as a way for societies to manipulate men to do scary, painful and dangerous things.
When my 12 year old niece complains about toxic masculinity, I want to remind her that women have always been more valued, as males are the ones who defend their tribes and die. Men are seen as more expendable. When women complain there aren't enough females in leadership roles, they forget leaders are often killed. Women are more valued while men are seen as more expendable.
Hundreds of millions of men have died in wars.
Biden & Trump would be murdered without strong security forces.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,856
Last seen: 53 minutes, 11 seconds
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
Freedom said:
toxic masculinity is pretty awesome.
i see it just as a way for societies to manipulate men to do scary, painful and dangerous things.
When my 12 year old niece complains about toxic masculinity, I want to remind her that women have always been more valued, as males are the ones who defend their tribes and die. Men are seen as more expendable. When women complain there aren't enough females in leadership roles, they forget leaders are often killed. Women are more valued while men are seen as more expendable.
Hundreds of millions of men have died in wars.
Biden & Trump would be murdered without strong security forces.
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
Posts: 7,246
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 minute, 15 seconds
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: When my 12 year old niece complains about toxic masculinity, I want to remind her that women have always been more valued, as males are the ones who defend their tribes and die. Men are seen as more expendable. When women complain there aren't enough females in leadership roles, they forget leaders are often killed. Women are more valued while men are seen as more expendable.
Hundreds of millions of men have died in wars.
My rebuttal to this.
Biden and Trump both have female security guards.
Women are seen as a commodity by far too many people. They don’t really value what they can contribute. Or what they can do, make or say. Women can do a lot more than making babies.
They need to be treated as equals. Not some precious thing that can’t defend themselves. Women can be leaders and can shoot a gun just like any man. More respect for the women please.
Edited by GenesisCorrupted (12/16/23 05:24 AM)
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,533
Loc:
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This conversation is about men, not women but you make some weird points I need to adress
"They don’t really value what they can contribute. Women can do a lot more than making babies."
What do they contribute besides making babies that you value? You brought it up but only mentioned the fact that they carry babies so you're kind of reducing them to baby factories while trying to look like a white knight in a rather odd out of place manner
"They need to be treated as equals. Not some precious thing that can’t defend themselves."
Women are equals but we aren't the same. They absolutely do look to men to defend them and there's nothing wrong with that. Just look at the male/female ratios of police, firemen, military personnel, etc. Hell, men even take jobs that shape the environment to be more accommodating which highly benefit women. We overwhelmingly build the houses, the road, the cars, appliances that make life easier, and for the most part have designed all of our modern conveniences. Have you ever cohabitated with a female in a romantic way? When there's a bump in the night you better believe she isn't going to be the one getting out of bed to see what it is
"More respect for the women please."
Nobody has said one damn disrespectful word about women in this thread. You look like you're trying to suck up to women and while I can't say what a woman's perspective is on you acting like this (maybe one will weigh in), I can tell you from a man's perspective, you look like a chump who feels ashamed to own a pair of testes
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,346
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Quote:
TheStallionMang said: This conversation is about men, not women but you make some weird points I need to adress
"They don’t really value what they can contribute. Women can do a lot more than making babies."
What do they contribute besides making babies that you value? You brought it up but only mentioned the fact that they carry babies so you're kind of reducing them to baby factories while trying to look like a white knight in a rather odd out of place manner
"They need to be treated as equals. Not some precious thing that can’t defend themselves."
Women are equals but we aren't the same. They absolutely do look to men to defend them and there's nothing wrong with that. Just look at the male/female ratios of police, firemen, military personnel, etc. Hell, men even take jobs that shape the environment to be more accommodating which highly benefit women. We overwhelmingly build the houses, the road, the cars, appliances that make life easier, and for the most part have designed all of our modern conveniences. Have you ever cohabitated with a female in a romantic way? When there's a bump in the night you better believe she isn't going to be the one getting out of bed to see what it is
"More respect for the women please."
Nobody has said one damn disrespectful word about women in this thread. You look like you're trying to suck up to women and while I can't say what a woman's perspective is on you acting like this (maybe one will weigh in), I can tell you from a man's perspective, you look like a chump who feels ashamed to own a pair of testes
Truthfully I found things in both your posts I agree with. The intention of both posts are positive.
When there are bumps in the night- I am the one who investigates.
The jobs- has been that way because in the past women were viewed incapable. They are not.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: What is a "real" man? [Re: loladoreen] 1
#28583595 - 12/15/23 07:57 AM (1 month, 14 days ago) |
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I haven't liked any part of this discussion except for the absolute absurdity of taking it seriously.
the "real" man idea is atavistic. we are products of a modern society and the atavism is quaint at the best and retarded in general.
some women are taller than their partners and some men have more breasts than their partners, & the major bread winner or child rearer could be either or shared equally. Survival for the most part is at the caprice of hospitals.
Orgone Conclusion, Swami or whatever started the conversation tongue in cheek (as everything) to highlight the absurdity of the notion while making a living by playing the cynical Vegas card sharp - a role that harks back to the seedy saloons of the wild west and Mexico, back when men were men - they each carried two guns and lots of bullets on their belts and hid their hearts under 10 gallon hats. it's poetic at best, and not good poetry.
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist



Registered: 08/01/23
Posts: 7,246
Loc: PNW
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Tubs made me want to say that.Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
When my 12 year old niece complains about toxic masculinity, I want to remind her that women have always been more valued, as males are the ones who defend their tribes and die. Men are seen as more expendable. When women complain there aren't enough females in leadership roles, they forget leaders are often killed. Women are more valued while men are seen as more expendable.
This is the post that made me want to respond. This is a thread about men. Of course I understand that. But that was not a good talk to have with a 12-year-old little girl. Basically telling them they don’t get to do any leadership roles. Thats a farce; they have plenty of opportunities. As long as they aren’t programmed to think there are none.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,693
Loc: Raccoon City
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: Women are seen as a commodity by far too many people.
Men are seen as a commodity.
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: When women complain there aren't enough females in leadership roles...
Each gender within their own sphere of influence.
I can't do what "she" does.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,214
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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only thing I know about atavistic is ativan, nawmsayinman?    Jk that's mushrooms which are also contemporary
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