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Offlinekyoung757
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Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method)
    #22238908 - 09/14/15 10:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

*First let me start off by saying that I am not an experience grower*
With that said I just started my first bulk grow in a monotub and I only had 6 pint jars of spawn, so I was reading a lot on commercial grows with non-psychedelic mushrooms and I saw that they don't use that much spawn with their substrate. I was wondering if that was true so I only used 2 jars of my spawn in a 66qt tub that I bought from wal-mart. I followed a bulk tek that I found on shroomery and put into to action (minus the extra spawn that they recommended). My tub is colonizing slowly right now (as expected) but I was wondering if anyone else has tried to be as frugal with their spawn as I have and achieved good results. I'll post pics once I fix my phone (sorry :crazy:)


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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238912 - 09/14/15 10:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)
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Pic 1 day 3


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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238916 - 09/14/15 10:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)
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Pic 2 Day 6


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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238917 - 09/14/15 10:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)
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Day 7


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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238920 - 09/14/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)
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Day 9


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Offlinenewrook
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238925 - 09/14/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I dunno why but I am too nervous to click on that shite


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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238927 - 09/14/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I mixed the sub and the spawn by the way with a light pasturization method of the substrate


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238930 - 09/14/15 10:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Download pics to the shroomery. Most people don't trust going off site to view photos especially when u have to download it.


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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238933 - 09/14/15 10:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know how to upload pics from my mac to this site


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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238936 - 09/14/15 10:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

First thread (repost) new user


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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238939 - 09/14/15 10:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

how do I do that?? :tongue2:


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: megatacular]
    #22238941 - 09/14/15 10:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Stop bumping ur thread too u can get banned for that


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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: megatacular]
    #22238950 - 09/14/15 10:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Shit I didn't know that


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: megatacular]
    #22238952 - 09/14/15 10:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

At the top where it says your name account and threads and messages and pics. Click pics. Then there's a button for uploading.pics. very easy


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: megatacular]
    #22238957 - 09/14/15 10:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14960167

Read the rules before posting to any forum.


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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238968 - 09/14/15 10:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238972 - 09/14/15 10:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238975 - 09/14/15 10:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238977 - 09/14/15 10:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238983 - 09/14/15 10:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Sorry for the fuck up earlier still tryna figure this shit out.. Im really stoned rn :crazy:


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: megatacular]
    #22238984 - 09/14/15 10:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The reason we use high spawn ratios is because we spawn in open air, often work with ms (many people do not have crazy isolates to rely on) and depending on your substrate rely on the spawn to provide the lions share of nutrition. There are exceptions of course but typically you get the same or similar yields depending on how much spawn you use. The bulk is mostly to supply water and keep up the RH in monotubs etc.


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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22238991 - 09/14/15 10:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Tell me what you think though that's two half filled pint jars of spawn to about [(1/3) to (1/2)] of a 40 lb bag of manure composte from Lowes


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22239008 - 09/14/15 10:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

so i would have the same amout of shrooms even if i used the whole bag in a larger tub? whats the point of monotubs then and even making a substrate? why not just use cakes?


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22239025 - 09/14/15 10:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Mono tubs are a maintainence free way of fruiting bulk grows. And cakes won't produce as much. Also what pastye said


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22239034 - 09/14/15 10:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The point of monotubs is to use high spawn ratios to maximize yield given the fruiting space.  You are comparing apples to oranges if you compare gourmet mushrooms to cubes. Wood lovers like shiitake actually do poorly in a highly suplimented substrate and they prefer lignin as a nutritional source. Cubes are not woodlovers and need lots of cellulose. Different species need different things.

There are some people who are really good at bulk supplimentation and can stretch the spawn. But it takes practice and they still won't typically go below 1:4 ratio. Your sitting somewhere around 1:10 right now. It doesn't look too bad but I wouldn't be holding my breath for a canopy or lots of flushes.


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: megatacular]
    #22239035 - 09/14/15 10:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

A substrate is partially nutritive. So the myceilium consumes a part of it. Thus more fruits and more surface area for fruits


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: megatacular]
    #22239039 - 09/14/15 10:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

why dont cakes produce the same amount of shrooms if they're pure spawn?


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22239042 - 09/14/15 10:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
The point of monotubs is to use high spawn ratios to maximize yield given the fruiting space.  You are comparing apples to oranges if you compare gourmet mushrooms to cubes. Wood lovers like shiitake actually do poorly in a highly suplimented substrate and they prefer lignin as a nutritional source. Cubes are not woodlovers and need lots of cellulose. Different species need different things.

There are some people who are really good at bulk supplimentation and can stretch the spawn. But it takes practice and they still won't typically go below 1:4 ratio. Your sitting somewhere around 1:10 right now. It doesn't look too bad but I wouldn't be holding my breath for a canopy or lots of flushes.




:whathesaid:


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Offlinekyoung757
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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22239044 - 09/14/15 10:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

ok i did not see mega's post before my previous message


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22239054 - 09/14/15 10:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

ok so i basically wasted my spawn by making it use some of its food to colonize a lot of sub :frown:


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22239076 - 09/14/15 10:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well you will probably see a flush. Its more of a waste of bulk sub and space. Those two pints would have been better used to expand to a dozen quarts and spawned two monos instead of one.


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22239099 - 09/14/15 10:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

And I believe maddchef said it best when u posted the same thing in the noob forum. Unless ur sub is super nutritive and can hold lots of moisture at the same time then yeah u wasted sub really not spawn. Well both I guess if u have no more


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: megatacular]
    #22239194 - 09/14/15 11:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I know a guy that swears by the 1 to 10 or 1 to 20 ratio. He says the lower spawn ratios lower the risk of contamination by putting less sterilized growing medium in the sub.


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #22239217 - 09/14/15 11:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Except pasteurized material is at just as much risk of contam. Pasteurization only provides a window and if colonization does not occur within that window trich will be waiting.

That's of course my opinion.  Tiger can you tell us what kind of BE your friend gets with such a low ratio? Curious to see what can be had with a mostly bulk sub. I would assume its fairly high in supplimentation.


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #22239229 - 09/14/15 11:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well once grain in colonized with myc its no longer sterile now is it? Bacteria mold fungi anything that comes in contact with sterile grain makes it.no longer sterile. So that is not true what ur friend says. And with a super nutritive sub I would bet there's a possibility  less could do the same. I wouldn't think it could do more than a higher ratio of spawn but yeah it could work.


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: megatacular]
    #22239238 - 09/14/15 11:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Got pics?


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: megatacular]
    #22239247 - 09/14/15 11:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know my friends BE but i know he's using trays, not tubs and is using compost plus hpoo plus staw.  He's giving them extremely ideal growing conditions better than i can produce.  Ive never seen his grows but hes been trying to get me to lower my spawn ratio for awhile and i dont see him pushing it so hard if it wasn't working for him. I'll ask him about his be.


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EZEKIEL 23:20


Edited by elasticaltiger (09/14/15 11:44 PM)


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #22239508 - 09/15/15 01:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Cool. I'd love to check it out.


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #22239757 - 09/15/15 04:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
I don't know my friends BE but i know he's using trays, not tubs and is using compost plus hpoo plus staw.  He's giving them extremely ideal growing conditions better than i can produce.  Ive never seen his grows but hes been trying to get me to lower my spawn ratio for awhile and i dont see him pushing it so hard if it wasn't working for him. I'll ask him about his be.




Cool. I would be curious.  Also would like to know what he is using for spawn. Must be something with lots of knock points. I bet brf slurry would do pretty good on a super high suppliment/nutrition sub.


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{UPDATE}: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22284266 - 09/24/15 02:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

First few fruits popped up and matured on the sides of the monotub (about 6 of them) which came out to be 163 or so wet. I fruited them too early should have waited until it was fully colonized (impatience) but the fruits are a good sign that it will eventually bare fruit soon :stoned:

Just the begining of the first flush and got more than I would have on a cake alone... Im hoping I'll get 3-4 times more than that and if so.. LESS SPAWN is the way to go :cool:


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Re: {UPDATE}: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22284388 - 09/24/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Lol sorry but you have no idea. A 66 quart mono needs to put out a minimum of 2000 wet grams to be worth the space it takes up and the materials you used. To be honest 2000 would actually be a bit dissapointing to me.  Of course spawning to nutrition and extra water is going to produce more than just the cakes would alone but 163 wet grams is easy enough to get from 2 - 3 cakes fruited as cakes first flush. If you were growing outdoors I would say that high spawn ratios are not as important and what you were doing would make more sense.

Like most things in this hobby a balance is what is needed. Too little or too much spawn is not ideal. For your pint of cakes I would have spawned to a mini mono that was 20 quarts to 2 quarts substrate and expected a first flush yield of around 300-450 grams or so wet.

I'm glad ya have a few in hand but you haven't proven anything we didn't already know. Hopefully you see more from round two.

Edit: hey Etiger any word from your friend on his BE and methods? I have a personal interest,  might be trying some experiments with supplimentation soon.


Edited by Pastywhyte (09/24/15 03:30 PM)


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Re: {UPDATE}: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22284604 - 09/24/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I know 160 isn't a lot but only the fruits that were touching the side of the container matured on this flush (which is still going) the middle has yet to produce anything due to not being fully colonized since I rushed..

I looks like it will continue to produce solid fruits all I need are 30-40 more shrooms which it looks like it will achieve easily and I will have crushed the 2000 mark making this a viable option to save time and spawn for a monotub..

This was just an update to show progress (and mistakes)..

All in the name of science and good vibes :cool:


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Re: {UPDATE}: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22284625 - 09/24/15 04:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Never count your fruits until they are picked. Uncolonized manure is a major contam vector and I would be on the watch for mean green especially since a flush has been completed.


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Re: {UPDATE}: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22287528 - 09/25/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Flush hasn't been completed yet still colonizing in fruiting conditions just the edges started fruiting


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22287556 - 09/25/15 08:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
I don't know my friends BE but i know he's using trays, not tubs and is using compost plus hpoo plus staw.  He's giving them extremely ideal growing conditions better than i can produce.  Ive never seen his grows but hes been trying to get me to lower my spawn ratio for awhile and i dont see him pushing it so hard if it wasn't working for him. I'll ask him about his be.




Cool. I would be curious.  Also would like to know what he is using for spawn. Must be something with lots of knock points. I bet brf slurry would do pretty good on a super high suppliment/nutrition sub.



Pasty, 1:8-1:12 spawn ratio with bird seed: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21805715


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22287734 - 09/25/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kyoung757 said:
why dont cakes produce the same amount of shrooms if they're pure spawn?



Well they Arent pure spawn.  Brf is like the spawn (heavy nutes) and verm is the sub (moisture retention)


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: Big Bear]
    #22287788 - 09/25/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Spawn..as in a jar of inoculated highly nutritious substrate...which is what you birth into a fruiting chamber if you were doing cakes :tongue2:

I have a good enough grasp of mycology. I just want some specific answers to figure out why people do not use low spawn ratios, like commercial grows, other than just trying to colonize it quickly to avoid contams..

If anyone has a reasonable explanation for this please share


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22287815 - 09/25/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Because it takes longer to colonize. Thus giving a longer time for molds like pathogens to take hold. It can be done though. But it's not like we sterilize manure in bags and inoculate manure bags in front of a flow hood. That's basically what edible farms do. It's pasteurized and spawned in open air. You're relying on mycelium to colonize before contams take hold. This can be especially hard with dirty spawn. But like I said it can be done. It's just much more risky.


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22287835 - 09/25/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Right and Verm has next to no nutrition.


The reason people use more spawn is simple...generally more spawn=more yield.  Next time throw in 6 quarts in a mono and report back. 


What more reason do you need?  Less spawn usually means less mushrooms.  Sure there are some exceptions but


:picdidnthappen:


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: Big Bear]
    #22287868 - 09/25/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Mad your results are pretty nice given the amount of spawn. But when I'm really stacking tubs fruiting space is at a premium and I want to maximize yield for space used. High spawn ratios are a good way to do that. I also have limited ability to store poo and thus use it a lot less. Guess I would rather use 5-6 quarts of spawn in a 66 quart mono and pull 3300 grams than use half that and pull half as well.

No matter what I have yet to see a poo grow with a ratio less than 1:3 match a coir grow at 1:2. Spawn is easy and cheap enough to make that I see no reason to short on it and take twice as long to complete a spawn run shortening my fruiting window. Then even when it does colonize and fruit I am pulling less fruit. Its too long to wait for too little yield for too much real estate taken up.

Everything I do is a matter of my preference of course.  Its only wrong if you are not happy at harvest time.


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22287882 - 09/25/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

OP what you also need to consider is that edible farms are not growing cubes. Shiitake for instance does terrible in oversupplimented substrates. Agaricus need lots of microbial interaction to fruit well. Edible strains are carefully selected for maximum BE for given substrate composition.

We are not growing shiitake,  we are growing cubes. Different species.


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22287887 - 09/25/15 10:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It was an experiment :smile: I definitely like the results considering the amount of spawn, but you're absolutely right, it's not anything like what high spawn ratios will yield. In terms of a limited space, high spawn ratios will definitely kick ass.

Plus the amount of time it takes for a low spawn ratio to colonize, you could have had 3 high spawn ratio tubs colonize in succession of each other. That's at least what I find. If you were aiming for production, making tons of spawn and using high ratios is the way to do it :thumbup:


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Edited by Mad Season (09/25/15 10:55 AM)


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: Mad Season]
    #22287915 - 09/25/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Wow the number of bumps on the first page, even after the warning, is pretty intense.


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: Mad Season]
    #22288088 - 09/25/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Dirty Spawn? You mean using contaminated jars??


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Re: Less Spawn More Shrooms :) (Bulk Method) [Re: kyoung757]
    #22288104 - 09/25/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yes.


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