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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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the white whale
    #22234958 - 09/13/15 11:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

"Vengeance on a dumb brute!" cried Starbuck, "that simply smote thee from blindest instinct! Madness! To be enraged with a dumb thing, Captain Ahab, seems blasphemous."

"Hark ye yet again – the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event – in the living act, the undoubted deed – there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there’s naught beyond. But ’tis enough. He tasks me; he heaps me; I see in him outrageous strength, with an inscrutable malice sinewing it. That inscrutable thing is chiefly what I hate; and be the white whale agent, or be the white whale principal, I will wreak that hate upon him. Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I’d strike the sun if it insulted me."

Seems to me like Ahab would consider the sun to be insulting him simply because he became burned by standing in it too long...


People will invent all these justifications for their insanity, such as "a whale intentionally harmed me so I must stalk it to the ends of the earth seeking revenge"

The whale could probably care less about Ahab, the whale probably did not even know that Ahab existed, yet in Ahab's mind there was some kind of epic battle going on in which an animal had intentionally wronged him.

I know so many people just like Ahab, letting their delusions become obsessions, inventing some sort of precieved wrong doing to pin on the whale just so he could act out his delusional perversions involving justice.


He speaks of fair play saying "could the sun insult me I would strike it from the sky", when in reality neither the sun nor whale could even care that he existed.

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: the white whale [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22235041 - 09/13/15 11:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I know so many people just like Ahab, letting their delusions become obsessions, inventing some sort of precieved wrong doing to pin on the whale just so he could act out his delusional perversions involving justice.





Ah, yes! Those flawed people "out there".

If you want some PSP street cred, come clean about your white whale and I will about mine - and probably others will. Isn't that likely a more constructive discussion than finger pointing and judging?


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the white whale [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22235052 - 09/13/15 11:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I know so many people just like Ahab, letting their delusions become obsessions, inventing some sort of precieved wrong doing to pin on the whale just so he could act out his delusional perversions involving justice.





Ah, yes! Those flawed people "out there".

If you want some PSP street cred, come clean about your white whale and I will about mine - and probably others will. Isn't that likely a more constructive discussion than finger pointing and judging?




Seriously I have no idea what your talking about.

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: the white whale [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22235105 - 09/14/15 12:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Of course not, that is the beauty of ego delusion.

Please return to your regular attacking of the flaws of "them" as is the wont of a Perfected Being.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the white whale [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22235140 - 09/14/15 12:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Of course not, that is the beauty of ego delusion.

Please return to your regular attacking of the flaws of "them" as is the wont of a Perfected Being.




I seriously have no idea what your talking about.

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleSun King
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Re: the white whale [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22235177 - 09/14/15 12:49 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Would you like to use a lifeline?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: the white whale [Re: Sun King]
    #22235190 - 09/14/15 01:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I like Gummy Lifesavers. :skittles:

11


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the white whale [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22235214 - 09/14/15 01:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The original post was inspired by moby dick, a Terence mckenna lecture and a situation with a family member, so I seriously have no idea what you are talking about...

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the white whale [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22235658 - 09/14/15 08:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Post responded to deleted


Edited by Coincidentiaoppositorum (09/14/15 08:36 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: the white whale [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22237462 - 09/14/15 04:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

"From Hell's heart I stab at thee whale!"

A quote from Melville, as Ahab, caught in the lines issuing from the many harpoons and lances in Moby Dick, tries to kill the creature. The line was adopted by Khan in the film The Wrath of Khan (Moby Dick was one of the books Khan was left with while abandoned on the prison planet). The Ahab Complex is a syndrome which typifies hatred of God. The White Whale symbolizes Deity for Ahab, its nature merely appearing to be "an unreasoning mask." One finds this in the film Forrest Gump in Lieutenant Dan after he loses his legs and rants against God during a terrible storm at sea. But it is against God's Shadow, the biblical Leviathan, beast of the watery abyss that Ahab rails against. leviathan is the Hebrew name that surrounded the goat's head inside the inverted pentagram in Anton Szandor LaVey's symbol for The Church of Satan. He recognized this Beast as the dark side of God also.

This link, beginning on page 264 includes your quote from Melville but describes this battle of Ahab's using Jungian terminology. Earlier, there is mention of the 'Night sea Journey,'* another oft-used Jungian reference. More about striking the sun on page 271 ff. But understand that man's part in such cosmic drama is NOT insignificant, and the vision of a purely material indifferent universe needs to be left behind with 19th century, pre-quantum theory science. Increasingly, the human psyche is becoming recognized as a micro-center which affects space-time just as gravitationally strong bodies affects space time and bends light at a macro-level. We are also woven into the fabric of space-time, we are not outside of the fabric of space-time like earlier centuries of thought regarded us.

https://books.google.com/books?id=uHk9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA270&lpg=PA270&dq=ahab+complex+in+psychology&source=bl&ots=qiB9v-9_GY&sig=GISofbSM7AD1G2Esh69ydZ0b6vM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAmoVChMI39mDvcT3xwIVRKweCh34tQOA#v=onepage&q=ahab%20complex%20in%20psychology&f=false

* Night sea journey
"An archetypal motif in mythology, psychologically associated with depression and the loss of energy characteristic of neurosis.
The night sea journey is a kind of descensus ad inferos–a descent into Hades and a journey to the land of ghosts somewhere beyond this world, beyond consciousness, hence an immersion in the unconscious.["The Psychology of the Transference," CW 16, par. 455.]

Mythologically, the night sea journey motif usually involves being swallowed by a dragon or sea monster. It is also represented by imprisonment or crucifixion, dismemberment or abduction, experiences traditionally weathered by sun-gods and heroes: Gilgamesh, Osiris, Christ, Dante, Odysseus, Aeneas. In the language of the mystics it is the dark night of the soul.

Jung interpreted such legends symbolically, as illustrations of the regressive movement of energy in an outbreak of neurosis and its potential progression.

The hero is the symbolical exponent of the movement of libido. Entry into the dragon is the regressive direction, and the journey to the East (the “night sea journey”) with its attendant events symbolizes the effort to adapt to the conditions of the psychic inner world. The complete swallowing up and disappearance of the hero in the belly of the dragon represents the complete withdrawal of interest from the outer world. The overcoming of the monster from within is the achievement of adaptation to the conditions of the inner world, and the emergence (“slipping out”) of the hero from the monster’s belly with the help of a bird, which happens at the moment of sunrise, symbolizes the recommencement of progression.["On Psychic Energy," CW 8, par. 68.]

All the night sea journey myths derive from the perceived behavior of the sun, which, in Jung’s lyrical image, “sails over the sea like an immortal god who every evening is immersed in the maternal waters and is born anew in the morning.["Symbols of the Mother and of Rebirth,"CW 5, par. 306.] The sun going down, analogous to the loss of energy in a depression, is the necessary prelude to rebirth. Cleansed in the healing waters (the unconscious), the sun (ego-consciousness) lives again."http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon/n/


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/14/15 06:44 PM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: the white whale [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22237804 - 09/14/15 05:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
If you want some PSP street cred, come clean about your white whale and I will about mine - and probably others will. Isn't that likely a more constructive discussion than finger pointing and judging?



I get it, that's pretty clear IMO. My biggest white whale is society. I have lots of smaller ones..

Great idea for discussion OC! I look forward to seeing what others write!


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleSun King
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Re: the white whale [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22237969 - 09/14/15 06:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Mine is my family, probably.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: the white whale [Re: Sun King]
    #22238145 - 09/14/15 07:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

WHITE WHALES MATTER!


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the white whale [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22238169 - 09/14/15 07:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Mine is death, my only obsession is death, but not in a creepy way, more in a shamanic way, my obsession is conscious States free from the physical body.

Unless the white whale symbolizes something other than obsession to you...

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: the white whale [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22239543 - 09/15/15 02:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I thought it was more symbolic of something you have a deep personal hatred for; something that you feel has harmed you and as such you remain locked in a constant battle with (until the day you learn to let it go that is!).


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: the white whale [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22239599 - 09/15/15 02:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

My white whale is an elephant. :what:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the white whale [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22239898 - 09/15/15 06:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
I thought it was more symbolic of something you have a deep personal hatred for; something that you feel has harmed you and as such you remain locked in a constant battle with (until the day you learn to let it go that is!).




To me the whale symbolized obsession, and how your obsessions can consume and destroy you, the battle did not exist, the whale was just being a whale, and Ahab's obsession with it drove him to the ends of the earth and destroyed him, when he should have just let go of his obsessions, his obsessions led him to justify his insane behavior, and even when starbuck was saying "dude, its just a dumb whale, let it go" he said "fuck you, my obsessions justify My insanity"



-E. Borodin


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: the white whale [Re: Diploid]
    #22240156 - 09/15/15 08:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
My white whale is an elephant. :what:




Yeah, but what is your elephant - an 800 pound gorilla?


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the white whale [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22240207 - 09/15/15 08:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I have to deal with a good deal of nonsesnse in my daily life, from people holding something against me when I did not even know what I did...

I don't hold hatred towards anybody, so in that sense I have no white whale, ive found it in myself to forgive all those who have done wrong to me.

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: the white whale [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22240213 - 09/15/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The wrongs must have been minimal; otherwise :minigun:


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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