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OfflineWScott
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Registered: 07/31/05
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22247125 - 09/16/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I got Be Here Now first myself. The one I recommended will probably be harder to find too.

edit - Be Here Now, at least my edition, comes with a an in depth preface and diverse 'afterward chapters' so you definitely won't be missing anything if you just got it.


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Edited by WScott (09/16/15 05:35 PM)


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22247230 - 09/16/15 05:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
To those that recommended mp3's/YouTube - unfortunately I just can't pick things up from listening/watching; it's like the information doesn't sink in properly and remain available to me. Does anyone else find this or is my case quite extreme?





I'm the opposite. I've listened to so many audiobooks and lectures that I can't even read anymore. :lol: I've listened to all of Ram Dass' talks, some of them dozens of times. He kind of tells the same stories over and over, sometimes I hear something new. I've been looking for his story of Bob Dole on his puja table for an audio collage. I've gone through all 116 talks! It's driving me nuts, I must have missed it. TAKE NOTES GENIUS! :facepalm:


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22247251 - 09/16/15 05:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Ram Dass was unsure that the Baba had actually swallowed the pills and later Neem Karolie asked him about it. So, the 2nd time, he placed each one on his tongue very obviously. His remarks were that such substances (obviously not the semi-synthetic LSD made in a Swiss lab in 1938) were known in India long ago, but were forgotten about. Perhaps that was a reference to the Soma of the Vedas. At any rate, Neem Karolie said that if the outside temperature was cool, and one's mind was turned towards God, it could be useful. But you are correct about having no dependence on substances. However, for some people (probably lots of people), an experience of gnosis (jnana) is necessary to ignite the flame of faith for a taste of holiness. Psychedelics can provide a mountain-peak experience whereas faith is a plateau upon which one lives most of the time until gnosis begins to blossom.




yes i agree, for me for instance, without psychedelics i was just too stupid and lazy to actually apply the spiritual teachings i read. psychedelics initially converted me from atheist to spiritual, but I got a case of "the fear" (mostly due to cannabis abuse at young age) so i quit all drugs and tried to do spiritually naturally. it didn't work very well. i was stupid and lazy and ignored the spiritual advice i received. eventually i started using psychedelics again and they helped put me back on the right path.

i still use psychedelics, but i no longer feel like i NEED them. if they were too disaapear from the earth tomorrow, i would still continue on the path i am on now. in fact, i think it might be good for me because these days i find myself sometimes getting spiritually lazy and relying on psychedelics to give me spiritual experiences rather than truly cultivating the soil of my heart.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: airclay]
    #22247381 - 09/16/15 06:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

From what I've read below, and from info from my BFF's report on his late, former girlfriend who was in the cult, I thought that this article was pretty well constructed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneesh

I read this, and although I rarely get rid of books, I felt so disgusted by the character at the time, that I traded it at a used book store. 
http://www.amazon.com/Golden-Guru-Bhagwan-ShreeRajneesh/dp/0828906319/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442449691&sr=8-1&keywords=golden+guru


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22247797 - 09/16/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Osho's 5th Commandment; To become a nothingness is the door to truth. Nothingness itself is the means, the goal and attainment. Does this even make sense? If so what does it mean? When I become nothingness, it's as boring as normal being and I always remain or return to being exactly how I was, which seems like a good thing.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #22250565 - 09/17/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

usulpsychonaut said:
Osho's 5th Commandment; To become a nothingness is the door to truth. Nothingness itself is the means, the goal and attainment. Does this even make sense? If so what does it mean? When I become nothingness, it's as boring as normal being and I always remain or return to being exactly how I was, which seems like a good thing.




There is some truth is what he said if becoming nothing means kenosis (self-emptying in Greek), which is what the New Testament said about Iesous, emptying himself of his divine omniscience in Philippians 2:7. But for those of us who are not divine demigods :lol: kenosis refers to our self-importance. In Islam, there is the word fana, which has a similar meaning to the Buddhist word nirvana, they both mean 'extinction' (i.e., of the egoic-mind, or separateness from divinity). Of course, in Islam, one cannot say that one is 'one with Allah,' because that is the #1 heresy called shirk ('association with God').

In the fictional Carlos Casteñeda books, one of the major obstacles to becoming a "man of knowledge" is self-importance. That is why the the teacher Don Juan Matus initially uses the "little smoke" (some fictional, smokable mushroom) to blow the mental chatter out of his novice Carlos' mind. Becoming nothing is addressed by Eckhart Tolle, but in a positive light. Personally, I like the word 'spaciousness' a whole lot more than the commonly used word 'emptiness' in Buddhist literature, yet they both refer to the same thing. Funny how a single word can turn me on or off emotionally to the self-same reality. Being truly humble is a positive thing, but experiencing loss of self in a psychotic episode, called decompensation, is a painful and terrifying experienced of having one's identity (or for some folks around here, one's soul) ripped from their essential awareness. The focus remains on the loss, not the gain of contentless awareness, which can be liberating and ecstatic.

So, if an individual suffers from a psychotic disorder - something which is never really addressed in the old spiritual material (e.g., St. John of the Cross, St. Ignatius of Loyola, Teresa de Avila, etc.), it can be devastating to an already tenuous ego structure to attempt to diminish it further. The problem in psychosis, hypothetically speaking, it that the ordinary boundary between normal, waking consciousness becomes overrun with contents from the unconscious, and one cannot turn off the flow. It has been likened to having a nightmare from which one cannot awaken even when one is not sleeping. There is a superimposition of intrusive feelings and thoughts, and sometimes auditory hallucinations  (especially 'command hallucinations'), and visual hallucinations (during acute psychotic episodes) that are superimposed on waking life. As far as normal life being "boring," that may be for one suffering psychotic disorders, the 'flattened affect' that accompanies the derealization and depersonalization of those disorders. :shrug:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22253984 - 09/17/15 11:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

There must be heretic Muslims that do claim one is one with Allah though. Possibly the 5 Percent Nation? Sufi Mystics?

I've had the auditory command hallucinations. Possibly fundamentalist Christianity induced PTSD, or something happened that I don't remember. It is hard for me to be passionate or enjoy life, if I pay for a ticket and travel to see a band that I like, when the event happens I just can't appreciate it. I have paranoia and struggle to ditch pessimism. Guess I can admit that their is no part of my identity worth holding on to, nothing is lost. What bothers me is that I keep on reading or satring at movies when I know I'd be far better off gardening. How to change habits? Never figured that out.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22255362 - 09/18/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Florida, and Miami in particular has more 'slime' than nuts, but remember, we're the city who had the face-eating 'zombie' who blinded his victim a couple of years ago (it was NOT 'bath salts'). We also sport some of the most pathetic examples of cosmetic surgery for elderly women that you have ever seen. I saw a woman at Whole Foods this week with arms as thin as a young child's. She had double D breast implants, a long brunette wig, and make-up covered facial skin pulled so tightly that she looked like a brunette Joan Rivers. She might have been late 60s or 70s, and wearing tight-ass clothes and platform heels. This is a form of mental illness that is just beginning to receive recognition. It is Plastic Surgery Addiction but it does not have its own DSM 5 designation. Rather, it's seen as an aspect of Body Dysmorphic Disorder. When an 18 year old Kylie Jenner makes news because she's had facial 'enhancements,' she is more of a 'litmus test' for this kind of cultural psychopathology. In addition to young women Botoxing their lips or cheeks, they are having Brazilian butt implants, which are advertised on billboards down here, as is breast augmentation  (breast augmentation is so common that it is no more worth mentioning than earrings can be considered to be piercings).






And parrot juice will help reduce the creaking when you smile, at the incredible medicine show.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: WScott]
    #22257807 - 09/18/15 07:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

WScott said:
I'll write out the back synopsis for you:

The Only Dance There Is
Ram Dass

This book is based on talks by Ram Dass at the Menninger Foundation, Topeka, Kansas, in 1970; and at the Spring Grove Hospital in Maryland, in 1972. The text grew out of the interaction between Ram Dass and the spiritual seekers in attendance at these talks.
The result of this unique exchange is a useful guide for understanding the nature of consciousness - useful both to other spiritual seekers and to formally trained psychologists. It is also a celebration of the Dance of Life - which in the words of Ram Dass, is the 'only dance there is'.

- - -

He uses casual language to go over all kinds of things and experiences. You really hear his voice in the words when you read it.




Well said! :thumbup: :thumbup:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #22257831 - 09/18/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

My favorite book from the 1st grade - a year before Alan Shepherd was shot into space and came right down again with no orbit. Pre-NASA. :lol:



One of my 1st grade classmate's lunch box.





Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/18/15 08:05 PM)


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22258922 - 09/19/15 03:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

there is one more moxy fruvous space song, Laika, the dog they put in space... slightly haunting to think about



really loved that band, Canadian bleeding heart liberal barbershop quintet from like the 90s, I chased a girl down a big hill in college to compliment her on her fruvous shirt and the next thing I knew the very next day I was going to see a fruvous show with her....

but if you want my favorite one, it's called My Baby Loves A Bunch of Authors




--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #22262801 - 09/19/15 11:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Laika was followed by a large number of Rhesus and other species of monkeys, both US and Soviet. But I remember Laika, sent to die of suffocation, freezing in space. What was the point of this if not for successful recovery. Even worse perhaps was the placement of LIVE animals near nuclear test sites to see the effects on flesh. Why not kill these animals mercifully rather than allow them to burn alive? :sad: Fucking Nazi scientists (German or not).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkeys_and_apes_in_space


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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