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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Ram Dass - where to start?
#22232552 - 09/13/15 04:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've heard this guys name mentioned a lot recently and I would like to look into some of his work. Can anyone suggest a good place to start please?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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caman
The Sauntering Stranger



Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 414
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Be Here Now
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In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the mind, there are no limits.- John C. Lilly
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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REMEMBER: BE HERE NOW was designed to be read according these directions: Read the first part as preparation for a psychedelic trip to create a mental set before trip. Don't cram, take it easy days before you trip. I always found the intro to be riveting reading. The CORE BOOK is printed on tan (or sometimes it came in yellow), and it was illustrated by visionary artist Steve Durkee. Large print is designed to cater to dilated eyes. There are 108 pages, the number of beads on a Hindu or Buddhist prayer mala. Begin at the beginning, page ॐ1. THE HEART CAVE. The third part of the book, 'Cookbook for a Sacred Life,' has enough material and bibliography to have kept me busy since buying my first copy in late 1972.
 Two pages in THE ONLY DANCE THERE IS on the chakras gave me the idea for my doctoral dissertation before I was even accepted to graduate school. I based it on Lama Anagarika Govinda's book Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism (in the bibliography of BE HERE NOW), and I inadvertently was put in touch with Lama Govinda when I wrote one of his publishers when I was doing research and found a typo that changed the meaning of a passage in one of his books. I didn't know he was still alive, but we corresponded for a while in the 80s. Ram Dass mentions Lama Govinda as part of his intro story. (Just trying to tie things up together). Pick this one up for .01¢ + $3.99 S&H -> http://www.amazon.com/Dance-There-Doubleday-Anchor-Original/dp/0385084137/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1442194013&sr=1-1&keywords=the+only+dance+there+is
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2,814
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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You tube.
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Universaleyeni
Friend



Registered: 04/18/13
Posts: 528
Loc: Fl
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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I highly recommend the audio talks on mp3. These are awesome for listening in the car or headphones, and hearing others from the group ask questions for Ram Dass to elaborate on. A great supplement to Be Here Now.
I lost my mp3s and cant find them online anymore 
That book tho...
Its my favorite book ever!
Edited by Universaleyeni (09/14/15 08:35 AM)
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syncro

Registered: 01/14/15
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I think the coolest part was the yogi who found him in India, Neem Karoli Baba, took a very large dose of Ram Dass's LSD, and just toyed with Ram Dass, the acid not even affecting him. I think the yogi also said that the LSD was not necessary and should not use. The thing about using psychedelics for experience is that one will then need them for experience.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: syncro]
#22235880 - 09/14/15 10:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ram Dass was unsure that the Baba had actually swallowed the pills and later Neem Karolie asked him about it. So, the 2nd time, he placed each one on his tongue very obviously. His remarks were that such substances (obviously not the semi-synthetic LSD made in a Swiss lab in 1938) were known in India long ago, but were forgotten about. Perhaps that was a reference to the Soma of the Vedas. At any rate, Neem Karolie said that if the outside temperature was cool, and one's mind was turned towards God, it could be useful. But you are correct about having no dependence on substances. However, for some people (probably lots of people), an experience of gnosis (jnana) is necessary to ignite the flame of faith for a taste of holiness. Psychedelics can provide a mountain-peak experience whereas faith is a plateau upon which one lives most of the time until gnosis begins to blossom.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Be Here Now is one of the best, and most fun, books I have ever run across. You'll treasure it forever.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Soul-Shine

Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 338
Loc: Within and Without
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After reading Be Here Now, listen to some of his lectures from the Naropa Institute.
EDIT: Feel the need to enter a personal story. l've also kept hearing his name in the past few years. It was this last summer that I decided to read one of his works (by the support of a shroomery member), and that work was Be Here Now. This was my first introduction into a polytheistic worldview.
*Note - Identify truth, as what you see as you. Certain lifetimes denote zen, tibetan study or even pursuits such as atheism = as "truth" - each lifetime has its own path.
After reading this work, I spent an intimate week with one of the characters from the book. My suggestion is to be open to foreign ideas (your "ideas" are "foreign" to that of foreigners [you see, relatively]). My understanding, as of now, is that deities in hinduism are aspects of the self. For example: Krishna is an aspect of self - who is associated with the heart centre. Krishna is exemplified in text as young child who plays the flute. And what;a been realised is that in essence, Krishna is the flute and you are the flute in which he plays. You see, Krishna (and the mantra is/are) an aspect of compassion just as the words "Om Mani Padme Hum" are in Buddhism. You just tune yourself to that specific frequency.
Edited by Soul-Shine (09/14/15 02:16 PM)
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WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 5,713
Loc: Nacada
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: Soul-Shine]
#22237576 - 09/14/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd recommend reading The Only Dance There Is before Be Here Now if you're asking where to start but Be Here Now would be the one to get of the two.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: WScott]
#22238889 - 09/14/15 10:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do any of you guys know in which talk Ram Dass tells the story of keeping a picture of Bob Dole on his altar?
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: caman]
#22241708 - 09/15/15 02:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
caman said: Be Here Now
Never has the psychedelic experience, the journey of awakening, and beautiful artwork been merged in such a wonderful way
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Ram Dass was unsure that the Baba had actually swallowed the pills and later Neem Karolie asked him about it. So, the 2nd time, he placed each one on his tongue very obviously. His remarks were that such substances (obviously not the semi-synthetic LSD made in a Swiss lab in 1938) were known in India long ago, but were forgotten about. Perhaps that was a reference to the Soma of the Vedas. At any rate, Neem Karolie said that if the outside temperature was cool, and one's mind was turned towards God, it could be useful. But you are correct about having no dependence on substances. However, for some people (probably lots of people), an experience of gnosis (jnana) is necessary to ignite the flame of faith for a taste of holiness. Psychedelics can provide a mountain-peak experience whereas faith is a plateau upon which one lives most of the time until gnosis begins to blossom.
you seem to be pretty knowledgeable on the subject, interested if you've read Osho's take on lsd leading to false samadhi or had a take on it?
http://oshosearch.net/Convert/Articles_Osho/LSD_A_Shortcut_to_False_Samadhi/Osho-LSD-A-Shortcut-to-False-Samadhi-00000001.html
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: airclay]
#22244031 - 09/15/15 11:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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No offense to YOU airclay, but Osho is Rajneesh, "The Golden Guru," whose estate had him renamed and repackaged post-mortem to sell more of his books after his death, and I consider him to be one of the demonic teachers (if you are unfamiliar with him as a cult leader). He does have interesting ways of putting things, but so did Hitler, who Osho/Rajneesh apparently admired. Why, he even had newbies to his cult wear striped uniforms (like concentration camp inmates) while they were in 'quarantine,' ostensibly while having tests for STDs return from the lab. Then, typical of cult leaders, he availed himself of the 'fresh meat.' His 64 Rolls Royce automobiles and the Oregon town he attempted to purchase, lock, stock and barrel are his legacies, before the US government had him deported. Why, the late girlfriend of my BFF changed her name to the Rajneesh-given name, permanently. She was a tragic tale, but only one of many who had come in contact with the so-called "Golden Guru." Samadhi is samadhi. It, like all other modifications of consciousness, has biochemical correlates, which can sometimes be catalyzed by external agents. Georg Gurdjieff called such techniques "the way of the Sly Man," or the "Fourth Way," the first three being the ways of the fakir, the monk and the yogi. After 44 years of serious tripping, I support Gurdjieff's opinion and reject all of Rajneesh's teachings. Any truth that he seeded his lies with can be found at their source IMO (since you're asking).
http://www.thefane.org/client.html#item16,2
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: No offense to YOU airclay, but Osho is Rajneesh, "The Golden Guru," whose estate had him renamed and repackaged post-mortem to sell more of his books after his death, and I consider him to be one of the demonic teachers (if you are unfamiliar with him as a cult leader). He does have interesting ways of putting things, but so did Hitler, who Osho/Rajneesh apparently admired. Why, he even had newbies to his cult wear striped uniforms (like concentration camp inmates) while they were in 'quarantine,' ostensibly while having tests for STDs return from the lab. Then, typical of cult leaders, he availed himself of the 'fresh meat.' His 64 Rolls Royce automobiles and the Oregon town he attempted to purchase, lock, stock and barrel are his legacies, before the US government had him deported. Why, the late girlfriend of my BFF changed her name to the Rajneesh-given name, permanently. She was a tragic tale, but only one of many who had come in contact with the so-called "Golden Guru." Samadhi is samadhi. It, like all other modifications of consciousness, has biochemical correlates, which can sometimes be catalyzed by external agents. Georg Gurdjieff called such techniques "the way of the Sly Man," or the "Fourth Way," the first three being the ways of the fakir, the monk and the yogi. After 44 years of serious tripping, I support Gurdjieff's opinion and reject all of Rajneesh's teachings. Any truth that he seeded his lies with can be found at their source IMO (since you're asking).
http://www.thefane.org/client.html#item16,2
Yah, you guys got gangstas, we Oregonians just have myriads of people who are absolutely fucking insane........
JSB: Be Here Now, Read Center Scroll While Tripping!!!!! Give it a good ol' 250ug psychedelic dose of acid if possible
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: No offense to YOU airclay, but Osho is Rajneesh, "The Golden Guru," whose estate had him renamed and repackaged post-mortem to sell more of his books after his death, and I consider him to be one of the demonic teachers (if you are unfamiliar with him as a cult leader). He does have interesting ways of putting things, but so did Hitler, who Osho/Rajneesh apparently admired. Why, he even had newbies to his cult wear striped uniforms (like concentration camp inmates) while they were in 'quarantine,' ostensibly while having tests for STDs return from the lab. Then, typical of cult leaders, he availed himself of the 'fresh meat.' His 64 Rolls Royce automobiles and the Oregon town he attempted to purchase, lock, stock and barrel are his legacies, before the US government had him deported. Why, the late girlfriend of my BFF changed her name to the Rajneesh-given name, permanently. She was a tragic tale, but only one of many who had come in contact with the so-called "Golden Guru." Samadhi is samadhi. It, like all other modifications of consciousness, has biochemical correlates, which can sometimes be catalyzed by external agents. Georg Gurdjieff called such techniques "the way of the Sly Man," or the "Fourth Way," the first three being the ways of the fakir, the monk and the yogi. After 44 years of serious tripping, I support Gurdjieff's opinion and reject all of Rajneesh's teachings. Any truth that he seeded his lies with can be found at their source IMO (since you're asking).
http://www.thefane.org/client.html#item16,2
No offense taken. I had come across a few pdf's by him and that was it. I hadn'the any idea of any of that and will def read further. Thanks!
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#22245870 - 09/16/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Florida, and Miami in particular has more 'slime' than nuts, but remember, we're the city who had the face-eating 'zombie' who blinded his victim a couple of years ago (it was NOT 'bath salts'). We also sport some of the most pathetic examples of cosmetic surgery for elderly women that you have ever seen. I saw a woman at Whole Foods this week with arms as thin as a young child's. She had double D breast implants, a long brunette wig, and make-up covered facial skin pulled so tightly that she looked like a brunette Joan Rivers. She might have been late 60s or 70s, and wearing tight-ass clothes and platform heels. This is a form of mental illness that is just beginning to receive recognition. It is Plastic Surgery Addiction but it does not have its own DSM 5 designation. Rather, it's seen as an aspect of Body Dysmorphic Disorder. When an 18 year old Kylie Jenner makes news because she's had facial 'enhancements,' she is more of a 'litmus test' for this kind of cultural psychopathology. In addition to young women Botoxing their lips or cheeks, they are having Brazilian butt implants, which are advertised on billboards down here, as is breast augmentation (breast augmentation is so common that it is no more worth mentioning than earrings can be considered to be piercings).
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Thanks so much for everyone's advice on this. Be Here Now it is then!! Seems like it'll be well worth timing it around a trip - sounds like a fascinating and very exciting concept for a way to read a book!
To those that recommended mp3's/YouTube - unfortunately I just can't pick things up from listening/watching; it's like the information doesn't sink in properly and remain available to me. Does anyone else find this or is my case quite extreme?
I see only one mention of The Only Dance There Is - has anyone else read this? Any comments regarding it?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 5,713
Loc: Nacada
Last seen: 9 months, 15 days
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I'll write out the back synopsis for you:
The Only Dance There Is Ram Dass
This book is based on talks by Ram Dass at the Menninger Foundation, Topeka, Kansas, in 1970; and at the Spring Grove Hospital in Maryland, in 1972. The text grew out of the interaction between Ram Dass and the spiritual seekers in attendance at these talks. The result of this unique exchange is a useful guide for understanding the nature of consciousness - useful both to other spiritual seekers and to formally trained psychologists. It is also a celebration of the Dance of Life - which in the words of Ram Dass, is the 'only dance there is'.
- - -
He uses casual language to go over all kinds of things and experiences. You really hear his voice in the words when you read it.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Ram Dass - where to start? [Re: WScott]
#22246850 - 09/16/15 04:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thank you WScott! Do you think this would be a good introduction before I embark on the journey of Be Here Now? Seems it might be a good way to get a feel for his style of writing?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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