|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
blthirteenre



Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 430
Loc: New York
Last seen: 9 months, 17 days
|
Breaking up spawn by hand
#22230147 - 09/13/15 07:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
hello,
I have had mild success recently growing mono tubs but for the last 3 or 4 tubs, they have gone bad a few days after opening them. I am quite confident the reason is because the spawn is so soft that it does not break in the jar no matter how long I bang it against a basketball. It is also possible that the jars are overfilled.
Anyway, I have to break up the spawn by hand and in doing so, because it is so tightly held together, mushing the grain in the process sometimes.
I will see on the surface a white contam that turns green. I am not so educated with contams.
Any thoughts on this? I have built hundreds of tubs before with high success rates so this is unusual for me. Thanks!
|
Spiracha
不拉差



Registered: 09/04/15
Posts: 52
Loc: distant galaxy
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
|
I just got out of the same rut that you are in... Grew a number of times with success, but all at once, bam, multiple failed monotubs. From what I understand, if you get contamed to death like that then you must have bad spawn. So I decided it was time to dive into agar. Not a problem in sight.
|
Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: Breaking up spawn by hand [Re: Spiracha]
#22230193 - 09/13/15 07:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Next time don't overcook your grains during the simmering process. They are still salvageable tho, even if they are mushy. Spawn to your mono and hope for the best!
|
DivineO
Chillin'



Registered: 08/11/15
Posts: 110
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
|
|
Yeh I agree with the salvageable part toss em in mono and hope for the best for real.
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: Breaking up spawn by hand [Re: DivineO]
#22230613 - 09/13/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
The contamination is In the jar if it contaminates before you see mushrooms.
|
blthirteenre



Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 430
Loc: New York
Last seen: 9 months, 17 days
|
Re: Breaking up spawn by hand [Re: bodhisatta]
#22230761 - 09/13/15 09:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
No, I am not saying contamination in the jar. They colonize 100% but then I cannot get them in the jar so it goes into the tub in clumps. I then have to break the clumps of grain up by hands and at that point sometimes I accidentally squish the grains bc they're very soft and it's easy to squish. Then my tub is contaminated as soon as I put it in fruiting conditions.
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
|
|
the contamination came from the jar, you just can't identify it before spawning.
You could spit in your tub while you mixed spawn and substrate and it still wouldn't turn green that quick. The green causing mold is in your jars.
|
Bugler Boy
Cultivar


Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 998
Loc: In your head
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
|
Quote:
blthirteenre said: No, I am not saying contamination in the jar. They colonize 100% but then I cannot get them in the jar so it goes into the tub in clumps. I then have to break the clumps of grain up by hands and at that point sometimes I accidentally squish the grains bc they're very soft and it's easy to squish. Then my tub is contaminated as soon as I put it in fruiting conditions.
Sounds like you're letting them consolidate if you're really having that much trouble breaking them up, spawn at 100%.
-------------------- The mushroom speaks: '"I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life... How the hypercommunication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds"
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: Breaking up spawn by hand [Re: Bugler Boy]
#22230826 - 09/13/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
People routinely forget about cube spawn for weeks. And have to dig it out with a fork. And still don't have problems. There's green mold mycelium in your jar if it turns green before first flush.
|
blthirteenre



Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 430
Loc: New York
Last seen: 9 months, 17 days
|
Re: Breaking up spawn by hand [Re: bodhisatta]
#22231393 - 09/13/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Ok this is very informative... Thanks to everyone for their help
|
Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
|
|
If you think squishing the grains is exposing uncolonized portions to the air, then let your grains sit for a few extra days after full colonization so the mycelium can penetrate everything real well.
|
Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: Breaking up spawn by hand [Re: Inocuole]
#22232216 - 09/13/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
|
Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
|
|
I got the feeling that's what he was really asking and nobody was giving him the answer he was actually looking for.
If you still do that, and the problem persists, then it's definitely your spawn, not just it's preparation, but how you're inoculating it, and with what.
|
sweetpea

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 327
|
|
.p
Edited by sweetpea (10/03/15 02:46 AM)
|
sweetpea

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 327
|
|
.
Edited by sweetpea (10/03/15 02:47 AM)
|
Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
|
Re: Breaking up spawn by hand [Re: sweetpea]
#22235275 - 09/14/15 02:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
If it's coir it doesn't even need pasteurization.
|
megatacular
professor procrastinate


Registered: 08/18/15
Posts: 183
Loc: Shittown Texas
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: Breaking up spawn by hand [Re: sweetpea]
#22235277 - 09/14/15 02:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I started out here not too long ago with the same.problem. well kinda the same. I did everything I could to not get contams and still did. I'm now doing agar in hopes of thwarting this issue for good. As far as grains being stuck I would assume that u might be overfilling ur jars and they may be over boiled. I follow rr s tek on grain prep to the t and since I've had.no problem breaking em up. The key is dry on outside with no cracks of busted grains but.fully hydrated.
How long do u soak your grains before bringing to slight boil?? Hopefully not raging boil??
|
megatacular
professor procrastinate


Registered: 08/18/15
Posts: 183
Loc: Shittown Texas
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: Breaking up spawn by hand [Re: megatacular]
#22235282 - 09/14/15 02:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Also how do you inoculate the jars? Ms syringe or???
|
sweetpea

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 327
|
|
.
Edited by sweetpea (10/06/15 01:06 PM)
|
ShroominMe
Stranger

Registered: 05/03/15
Posts: 525
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
|
Too many variables here. What are you doing now that you did not do before?
Or, what did you do before, with success, that you are not doing now?
|
megatacular
professor procrastinate


Registered: 08/18/15
Posts: 183
Loc: Shittown Texas
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: Breaking up spawn by hand [Re: sweetpea]
#22235299 - 09/14/15 02:42 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
sweetpea said:
Quote:
megatacular said: Also how do you inoculate the jars? Ms syringe or???
Thisss, more details please. :o
If u must. Multi spore syringe is ones u but online for microscopy. Research that have multiple different genetics within. Another would be grain to grain. Simple one jar with colonized grains one with sterile grains. Take colonized grains add to uncolonized ones. Agar would be the best choice to innoc with because it would be free.of contams and provide the best and fastest growing fruits if isolated to a monoculture. Then Therese liquid culture grown in a jar in karo syrup or other media. Its the same asball other though never know what genetic ur gonna get till it grows. Agar is the best by far I think.
|
megatacular
professor procrastinate


Registered: 08/18/15
Posts: 183
Loc: Shittown Texas
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: Breaking up spawn by hand [Re: ShroominMe]
#22235301 - 09/14/15 02:45 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ShroominMe said: Too many variables here. What are you doing now that you did not do before?
Or, what did you do before, with success, that you are not doing now?
|
Spiracha
不拉差



Registered: 09/04/15
Posts: 52
Loc: distant galaxy
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
Re: Breaking up spawn by hand [Re: Inocuole]
#22238066 - 09/14/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
bodhisatta said: The contamination is In the jar if it contaminates before you see mushrooms.
bodhisatta is correct. This really isn't hard. If your monotubs are failing before fruiting any mushrooms, it is due to contams IN YOUR SPAWN.
Quote:
sweetpea said: the tub contaminating before you see mushrooms doesn't necessarily mean it came from the jars of spawn. Like, at all. In the OPs case, it sounds like a problem with mushy grains being compromised upon spawning. Even beyond that, there could be a problem with moisture content or pasteurization of the substrate that could prevent fruiting and eventually lead to contamination.
Which is like saying "its not your spawn, but it is caused by your spawn, maybe." Not trying to sound like a dick, it just is what it is. Also, if his grains are fully colonized with healthy myc then they would not fall victim to a contamination from spawning it to bulk. <---please correct me if im wrong here.
Quote:
sweetpea said: Also, he didn't say they turned a few days after spawning, he said after opening the tubs. I assume that to mean he was opening them after colonization with the intention of fruiting, but the compromised grain keeps eating shit at that point, having been unable to fully repair itself and succeptible to contams all the while. Just saying, no rudeness intended.
Usually the green shows once it has received fresh air. BEFORE getting fresh air trichoderma will appear white, like mycelium.
Just saying... still seems like bad spawn to me.
Quote:
Inocuole said: If it's coir it doesn't even need pasteurization.
Right. Coir is very contam resistant. If that is what OP used, then it makes the case of bad spawn an even stronger argument.
edit: idk how i screwed up the quotes there. fixed now
Edited by Spiracha (09/14/15 09:12 PM)
|
sweetpea

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 327
|
|
.
Edited by sweetpea (10/03/15 02:48 AM)
|
sweetpea

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 327
|
|
.
Edited by sweetpea (10/03/15 02:48 AM)
|
MushLover2552
Stranger

Registered: 08/13/15
Posts: 33
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
|
Re: Breaking up spawn by hand [Re: sweetpea]
#22243344 - 09/15/15 08:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
If my WBS colonizes for a few days extra or if the jar is overfilled, I just wipe a knife down with iso and slice the jar up like a pizza, lid it, and shake til separated
|
blthirteenre



Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 430
Loc: New York
Last seen: 9 months, 17 days
|
|
I want to be clear about what caused the failures and the possible reasons:
I used South American, orginally MS, G2G, and at this point, it was 4th generation.
In addition to verm and coir, I added coffee that had been frozen over a long period of time.
I definitely overfilled the jars to close to 800 ml including the grain transfer, which made it very difficult to get out of the jar.
A week or so ago, I made a tub with some Thai jars I had and it was successful.
Also, I still have some SA tubs that may be at its 4th, possibly 5th dunk that are still producing but possibly they are not related to the grain used for these failed tubs I am referring to.
I usually inject a pint jar and then G2G from there, and it is very possible that all these tubs that are failing is a result from the original pint jar I inoculated. I want to point out that every jar I have used for the tub not only looked perfect, but smelled perfect as well. The only issue was that it was impossible to get out of the jar so I had to rip it out one way or another.
The Thai I recently used was not overfilled and broke up just by shaking it.
I just bought some new syringes because the ones with SA and Thai are over a year old so I want to start over.
|
|