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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
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Fun With Straw! 3
#22228628 - 09/12/15 07:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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First come the shoutouts. Huge props to blindingleaf, eatyualive, hamloaf, azur, pastywhyte, and the rest of the fine folks of The Tribe. I would never have done this without your incredible wealth of knowledge.
So, in order to improve the cost effectiveness and efficiency of my grows, I've switched it up. Forever, my monotubs have been comprised of 6 quarts of spawn and 8 quarts 50/50 hpoo/verm. Verm costs a lot more than straw. As far as cost effectiveness goes, you can get dozens of tubs out of the same dollar amount as a bag of verm that's good for maybe 4 tubs. Straw holds water just as well as verm, and unlike verm it contains lots of nutrients for the mushrooms.
The other big difference from my previous grows here is that I'm only using 4 quarts of spawn instead of 6. This allows me to sterilize enough spawn for 2 66qt tubs in one PC run.
So let's get started. First order of business is to prep the straw. Large amounts of straw can be shredded with a weed eater, but small amounts can easily be done by hand with scissors.
I try to chop my straw into 1" pieces. It's hard to get every single one and a few long pieces won't hurt anything, so I'm calling this good.
Once your straw is cut, it should be soaked, anywhere from a few hours to overnight. A nitrogen supplement may be added to the soak water. I use Alaska brand fish fertilizer at a rate of 2 teaspoons per gallon of water. Chicken manure and worm castings are also excellent nitrogen supplements.

The straw is placed in a mesh laundry bag, submerged in a bucket of water/fish emulsion solution, and soaked overnight. A gallon jug full of water is used to keep the straw submerged.

While the straw is soaking, we might as well prep the horse manure. Some horse manure should be added to the straw to fill in the voids. We will mix the straw with the horse manure at a 2:1 ratio -- one quart of horse manure for every 2 quarts of chopped, packed straw.
Please note that while this tek is intended to be done with horse manure, coir can be substituted, although that increases your cost of materials. Proper pasteurization must be employed even if coir is used in place of horse manure.
The horse manure should be broken up as finely as possible. Make sure to get rid of any debris like leaves, twigs, and bugs. This is a half gallon of horse manure, ready to be hydrated. I like to hydrate the manure separately, but we will wait to hydrate the manure until the straw is done soaking.

Once the straw is done soaking, remove the laundry bag from the bucket and hang it somewhere to drain.

While the straw is draining, we can finish preparation of the hpoo. First, preheat a stock pot full of water to about 165f and turn the heat down low enough to maintain that temp. Preheating your water saves you a shitload of time. I always add extra water so I can use hot water to hydrate the manure. Raising the baseline temp of the substrate is what saves so much time.
NB -- I have an electric stove, and it is extremely easy to maintain temps with it. I can't guarantee it will be as easy on a gas stove. Try to not let your water temp exceed 165. If it goes a little higher for a bit it's not the end of the world, but I prefer to never let any aspect of the pasteurization process exceed 165f.

Once the water is heated, take some hot water from the pot and use it to hydrate your horse manure.

Then mix in the straw.

Once the poo and straw are mixed, load them into jars or bags for pasteurization. I use half gallon jars. Fill the jars with substrate and pack it very firmly. If the jars aren't packed full enough, they'll float in the pasteurization pot and we don't want that. If you don't have substrate to pack your jars full, get more hot water out of the pot to hydrate more poo, and mix everything back up again. Once your jars are tightly packed full of substrate, cover the mouths of the jars with foil...

... and load into your stockpot. I keep a jar handy to bail out water if necessary. You want enough water that the jars barely don't float.

Put the lid on your stockpot (I use my old 23qt presto PC). Load a bowl, crack a beer, and find something to do to kill 20-30 minutes.
Once the internal temperature of the substrate jars reaches 145f, set a timer for 90 minutes. Once the pasteurization cycle is complete and the substrate is cool, it's time to spawn your tub(s). Pictured is the tub at time of spawning.

The varieties being grown are an albino penis envy pin clone and a Cambodian pin clone, as well as multispore penis envy. Culturing methods were identical for both the APE and cambo pin clones. A pin from a multispore plate was transferred to a new plate and allowed to completely colonize the media. Once knotting occurred on the new plate, quart jars were inoculated with pieces of agar with the highest concentration of knots.
2 half gallons of G2 spawn were made from part of the masters, and a tub designed specifically for penis envy varieties was used for the APE. The special tub has additional holes, 2 on each end up top and 3 on each side at substrate level. The idea is that with careful placement of polyfill, FAE can be increased without lowering the humidity inside the tub. The APE tub colonized quickly despite the lower spawn ratio. Here is the APE tub on day 3 of spawn run.

APE Day 5:

APE Day 6 -- casing layer was applied. Casing layer is 1/4" thick, consisting of jiffy mix pasteurized in the same method as above.

APE Day 12 -- 96 hours after introducing FAE and the pinset is coming in very nicely.

APE day 17 -- 5 days after introducing FAE.

APE day 18 -- 6 days after introducing FAE.

APE day 19 -- one week after FAE was introduced. A few mushrooms were ready to pick and the rest of the first flush is filling in nicely.

I'm going to keep this thread updated with the other tubs I have going using this method, and will document the APE tub until it's spent. Stay tuned!
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
Edited by NumeroEno (09/13/15 11:50 AM)
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Buck513

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-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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Cue
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Re: Fun With Straw! [Re: Buck513]
#22228820 - 09/12/15 08:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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have you noticed a drastic improvement with the addition of the nitrogen supplement?
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NumeroEno
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Re: Fun With Straw! [Re: Cue]
#22228905 - 09/12/15 08:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not really, but I haven't run any tubs of just unsupplemented straw and hpoo. The closest thing I did was some mini monos of MS APE on 1:1:1 straw:hpoo:verm. Those mini monos were contaminated so I can't use them for comparison, since I know that the rhizopus and trich, along with the fact that those mini monos were uncased, all negatively affected yield. Plus there was a lot of verm in those tubs.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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Grey
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Re: Fun With Straw! [Re: Cue]
#22228908 - 09/12/15 08:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nice write up man! I have a bail of straw waiting to be shredded. Where did you purchase the fish emulsion?
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AMU Q&A If you don't have a plan of your own, you'll become a part of somebody else's.
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
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Re: Fun With Straw! [Re: Grey]
#22228917 - 09/12/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks! I got the fish emulsion at lowes. I think the bottle was 8 bucks.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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Fantastic Mr. Fox
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Re: Fun With Straw! [Re: Cue]
#22228925 - 09/12/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nice write-up, Eno!
I'm gonna give your prep a go, and incorporate the nitrogen soak..
-------------------- Giving is all we have, for we're just grateful to be alive

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d0urd3n
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
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Quote:
Fantastic Mr. Fox said: Nice write-up, Eno!
I'm gonna give your prep a go, and incorporate the nitrogen soak..
Gotta give credit to blindingleaf for that one. He uses chicken manure. I use the fish emulsion for gardening and one day it hit me that it would be perfect for mushrooms.
Actually I got the whole idea from blindingleaf. By all rights he deserves 100% credit for this. I just got the itch to write it up because straw is fuckin awesome.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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Fantastic Mr. Fox
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Fuckin' A Thank you both! 
Does it have to be fish emulsion/organic fert? Or can it be done w/synthetic..
-------------------- Giving is all we have, for we're just grateful to be alive

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NumeroEno
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Well I suppose you could soak the straw in diluted miracle grow 
I'm just a big advocate of growing organic
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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blindingleaf
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nah man, this all you!!! awesome write up!!!
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
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Shit man you gave me the idea. I just realized that there wasn't much info about straw out there. It's such an awesome and under appreciated substrate. You can get a bale of straw for less than a 3 ack of eco earth bricks.
I'd really like to see more people using straw, and I'm just hoping this will help in that.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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eatyualive
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ApeApeApe!
love me some straw/poo.
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NumeroEno
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Registered: 07/24/14
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I just harvested the 2 biggest mushrooms from the tub. I've noticed that the mushrooms get overripe really quickly. If you don't harvest them at just the right time the cap starts turning black and the stem gets squishy. I'll have to be really careful about harvesting these at peak ripeness. I also expect mushrooms from subsequent flushes to be bigger and I'm gonna push this tub as far as I can.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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eatyualive
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yes they do and when the caps turn black they usually abort. you will get the hang of them.
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
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It's weird. The last time I did a 66qt PEU tub they all aborted. I think I'm gonna have to break out my PEU clone and try it on straw.
This APE tub though, I'll probably flip it after the second flush. There are a ton of knots on the bottom of the sub. I think it will come gradually, but I bet I get a really good yield from this tub.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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PsiloPsychIn
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Well Done Eno - thanks so much!

Nice tek. I did horse poo this way with Azur's tek. The Alaska fert is a nice touch and the mix of straw and poo is obviously a winner!
Have you done a comparison without the Alaska fish fert to see what you are gaining with this?
I may just have to try this when I get some APE myself... I have a sense that the universe may just provide me with some soon...
-------------------- What are they saying? Listen carefully, it might be something you need to hear...
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
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I haven't done a side by side comparison with and without the fish emulsion, but I will. I'm doing all of my fall tubs this way and I will keep this thread updated. I'll do a side by side fish emulsion vs none with either the GT or the cambo that I have on deck.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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PsiloPsychIn
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I bought some Alaska Fish emulsion (because of you buddy) and I'm going to try it with my oysters... I will do a bucket with and a bucket without and see how it impacts yields and flavor.
-------------------- What are they saying? Listen carefully, it might be something you need to hear...
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Srirachi
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Very nice Eno!  Two thumbs up.
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
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Quote:
PsiloPsychIn said: I bought some Alaska Fish emulsion (because of you buddy) and I'm going to try it with my oysters... I will do a bucket with and a bucket without and see how it impacts yields and flavor.
Hell yeah. I'm going to start soaking wood in it as well. Next up on the edible front is some of the FP kings, blues, and some pios. Gonna g2g the kings early next week and I plan to spawn them to aspen shavings and sawdust at a very high spawn ratio in bags. The blues I'm gonna do on straight straw, and I think I'm gonna try the pios in a monotub. Hell, they look just like cubes so I'm wondering if they'll like a monotub.
I'm also starting some ganoderma, that I'm gonna do on equal parts straw/aspen/coir with a really high spawn ratio.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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d0urd3n
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I bet they will do alright. I got some fat ones that are growing in bags that were never given FAE.
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NumeroEno
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Re: Fun With Straw! [Re: d0urd3n]
#22229643 - 09/13/15 12:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah that pio culture pins on agar for me. The ganoderma I'm going to grow out fruits on agar as well. I figure both will be good for tubs. I'm doing the blues in bags.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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d0urd3n
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I think I got this pio from Tinkid? Did you send me one as well? I have two, but I didn't think either was from you.
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NumeroEno
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Re: Fun With Straw! [Re: d0urd3n]
#22229650 - 09/13/15 12:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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No but I got the culture I have from you...
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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d0urd3n
Just call me "D"

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Ah okay... sorry I get confused on who all I trade with
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blindingleaf
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Re: Fun With Straw! [Re: d0urd3n]
#22231091 - 09/13/15 11:02 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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eno, if u start soaking the sawdust in the emulsion please share results!!
and i bet pio's would do well in a tub. i would case em, and leave top holes open. they have pinned in sealed bags for me 100% of the time if i don't birth at right time. u can run them on coir too
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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NumeroEno
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Yeah for sure. My wood based subs are going to be aspen shavings and hardwood sawdust soaked in the emulsion. I'll be sure to make a thread in GMM about it
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
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Here's a pic of the tub just now. There were some mature mushrooms that I picked and threw in the dehydrator. IME there's a pretty small window of peak ripeness for APE. Once the cap has turned blue and starts curling up around the edges is the perfect time to harvest. They start going downhill quickly once they mature.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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eatyualive
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nice Eno. they can be a tad bit slow sometimes.
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NumeroEno
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Now they're starting to fill out, but I think the bigger dicks are going to come in later flushes just like with grey. I think I'll wait until tomorrow morning to pull the first flush and then dunk it when I get home. I think that I'll get some huge ones by the 3rd or 4th flush.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



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2nd flushes FTW!
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



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The second flush is coming up nicely now. I'll keep this thread updated.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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Grey
⇜ ✯ ⇝



Registered: 11/06/14
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Eno, my APE put out a small handful of fatties right before an even pinset came in. That was in two tubs. Both tubs are in their third flush, and looking nice. You think maybe your did something similar?
--------------------
AMU Q&A If you don't have a plan of your own, you'll become a part of somebody else's.
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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Re: Fun With Straw! [Re: Grey]
#22241615 - 09/15/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well, I got a handful of slightly larger mushrooms before the first flush came up in earnest. The tub is covered in pins, but I've read that all the pins set at once, even though some don't come up until later flushes. I harvested the last of the first flush this morning and gave it an hour dunk last night. I think this tub will go for like 5 flushes, so I think the overall yield will end up being pretty decent. I plan to flip the sub at some point too.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



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for me if ape doesn't do so well 1st flush. it will explode 2nd flush. ive only experienced the stubby fruits with a casing layer and an old culture. but 2nd-5th flush always produces really well and even.
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NumeroEno
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That's good to know. I had sort of figured that was the case. First flush was about 42 grams dry. Not great, but I just finished making a very nice batch of chocolates with it. I think a writeup on the way I make chocolates isn't too far off. The last batch of APE chocolates I made had a gram each in them and they were a little too intense. The batch I just finished making is 40 white chocolates with cacao nibs and .75 grams of APE in each.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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d0urd3n
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Have you used cacao nibs before? It should act as a slight MAOI. Curious if you actually notice much if any difference.
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Fantastic Mr. Fox
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Re: Fun With Straw! [Re: d0urd3n]
#22243904 - 09/15/15 11:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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1g of APE too intense??
Didnt know APE was tht "potent"...
Never had 'em
-------------------- Giving is all we have, for we're just grateful to be alive

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NumeroEno
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Re: Fun With Straw! [Re: d0urd3n]
#22244028 - 09/15/15 11:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
d0urd3n said: Have you used cacao nibs before? It should act as a slight MAOI. Curious if you actually notice much if any difference.
I used them once before. I thought they'd go really well with the white chocolate. I was going for a cookies and cream sort of vibe. They came out super nice. I've got the tempering down finally.

I used 30 grams of APE and 2 10oz bags of white chocolate chips. The goal was to make 40 chocolates and I came out with 41. I only had 16 wrappers left though so the others will stay in the fridge for a few more days.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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Srirachi
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Wow man, those are nice!
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NumeroEno
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Re: Fun With Straw! [Re: Srirachi]
#22244755 - 09/16/15 08:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I really enjoy cooking and shit, so I wasn't satisfied just making super basic chocolates. There's a good writeup in azur's journal about tempering which initially set me on my mission. Since then I've had lots of practice, done lots of research, and even gotten some tips from a chocolatier IRL. I took pics of my whole process so I will be posting a full writeup on the chocolates this afternoon.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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eatyualive
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Mr fox. I did 4g dry dose and they rocked me like pan cambos. A little more edge of course. But pretty clean for cubes.
Edited by eatyualive (09/16/15 11:48 AM)
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NumeroEno
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I still haven't tried any of the APE. I've got the weekend all to myself so hopefully it rains this weekend and I go on a nice shroomy morning oyster hunt in the woods. I went to the grower's market last weekend and one dude was selling these bowling ball sized oyster clusters that he found really close to where I live.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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