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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Inner dialogue fracturing
#22226101 - 09/12/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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So after many years of meditation and daily focus on the present, I have learned to observe my thoughts/inner dialogue quite well, and generally without judgement. Observe thought -> acknowledge it -> let it go.
However in the last week I have noticed something quite odd occurring, and I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm hoping some of you guys might have some experience or suggestions.
It all started a week back after I had a pretty stressful conversation with my wife. After I hung up the phone, I stayed seated for some time in order to focus on the present (via my breath) and let go of the feeling of anger. All of a sudden, this very pronounced, reassuring voice pops into my head and says:
"You're a good guy JSB"
Now what stands out so particularly here, is the fact that I have never heard my inner dialogue come from this place before. It was like it came from outside my head; a few inches away from my skull in direct line with my crown. I've had a couple more positive messages from that same place since, although they've been nowhere near as pronounced.
Now this is where it starts to get interesting. Today, whilst I was out walking my dog, I had a voice pop up that said:
"You're inadequate"
It had a distinct bitter note to it. This time, it came from somewhere below my heart, probably in the exact spot defined as the solar plexus. So now I've got three locations from which my inner dialogue originates. One being neutral, the other negative, and the other positive.
Is this something that could be considered some kind of spiritual awakening, or am I just going stark raving mad?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,406
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 34 minutes, 6 seconds
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A positive voice originating from the crown sounds to me like it might be guidance coming from the higher self. Not so sure about the negative voice from the solar plexus. As for the possibility of the first voice being your higher self, I would suggest maybe trying to dialogue with it next time it occurs, if it happens again. Ask it if it is your higher self, see if you get a response. I can say from my communication with my higher self, that such a relationship is profoundly invaluable in so many areas of life. I wish you the best with this JSB
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pachoo
Witchakookoo



Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 7,135
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Re: Inner dialogue fracturing [Re: deff]
#22226157 - 09/12/15 08:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just wanted to say first... I don't hear voices mmmkay? I just talk to myself sometimes.
I usually have inner voices like that as well. Now I'm going to have to pay attention about the locations more. Usually when I hear the positive one it's in my head or like... whispering in my ear. Reassuring me of my worth.
The negative is usually felt in my stomach. My insecurities give me stomach pain for some reason when I think about them.
Perhaps that's similar?
Or maybe if you felt it near your heart you may be insecure with feeling inadequate but also could be reassured that you could do something about it with change.... or something.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Inner dialogue fracturing [Re: deff]
#22226173 - 09/12/15 08:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: A positive voice originating from the crown sounds to me like it might be guidance coming from the higher self. Not so sure about the negative voice from the solar plexus. As for the possibility of the first voice being your higher self, I would suggest maybe trying to dialogue with it next time it occurs, if it happens again. Ask it if it is your higher self, see if you get a response. I can say from my communication with my higher self, that such a relationship is profoundly invaluable in so many areas of life. I wish you the best with this JSB 
Thanks deff, appreciate your input man. I have considered that it might be exactly what you suggest - my higher self. It certainly feels that way. It's gonna be an interesting challenge trying to communicate with it; it feels very illusive thus far, however I have a very strong feeling that it would be 'profoundly invaluable' if only I could learn to utilise it.
Have you had this ability for some time? Is there anything that you have done over the course of time to foster communication with it?
Quote:
pachoo said: I usually have inner voices like that as well. Now I'm going to have to pay attention about the locations more. Usually when I hear the positive one it's in my head or like... whispering in my ear. Reassuring me of my worth.
The negative is usually felt in my stomach. My insecurities give me stomach pain for some reason when I think about them.
Perhaps that's similar?
Thank you pachoo! I think it sounds strikingly similar!! Have you experienced this for a long time?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,406
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 34 minutes, 6 seconds
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I've been knowingly communicating with and being guided by my higher self for about two years now. It's my understanding that everyone is always being overlighted and guided by their higher self, just that for most people it isn't at a conscious level for whatever reason. Unfortunately I can't really give much advice on how to elicit communication with the higher self, as it was something that came unexpectedly to me, even before I really believed in a higher self. I would think that attempting to communicate with it, and asserting that you are open to communication with it, might be helpful. And of course, keeping up a daily meditation practice as I think you do will likely be of benefit as well. Some people call the voice of the higher self as the 'still small voice within' and that we have to be very still and receptive to hear it. For me, the higher self is more apparent than that description, and I've gotten into the habit of letting him speak through my voice, and so a lot of the time I'll dialogue with my higher self out loud (like channeling). Such a relationship and the guidance that comes with it is life changing
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pachoo
Witchakookoo



Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 7,135
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I have since I was little. It's probably because I spent alot of time alone and quiet. And deep dreams with myself.... talking to myself in my own head. It sounds exactly like what Deff is saying though, although I just don't call it that. I call it my pure self. Without the needs for extreme emotions, just logical assumptions and basic compassion for myself. Just alert to my own situations without basing things on emotionally reactions... I guess. haha I kind of talk in questions for myself. Like "Well why do you feel that way?" or state things that could alter my perception on situations "He's not that person who hurt you, so stop acting like he is. You don't feel that way for him, you need to differentiate your feelings for him and *whoever*". I now wonder if it's because of my trauma that allowed me to somehow... escape into myself at a young age and comfort myself.
I just re-read that paragraph and I sound crazy a bit hahaha oh well.
Anywho... I meant to restructure what I was saying in the first post about feeling inadequate... Maybe you are saying that word to yourself but perhaps you really mean... ill equipped to deal with a certain situation. I'm just going to use some of your wive's projection examples for this.... She projects her abuse from her father, or parents, onto you because something that you have done, even in the slightest bit, has altered her perception and relates it to you are just like them and you will only hurt her eventually, because that is what they did. Because this is unfair to you, and I'm sure you have tried reasoning with her and tried reassuring her that is not who you are and you love her. But in the end, you feel inadequate to deal with the situation because you are ill-equipped to do so. You probably cannot even help her get past this thinking because she is set on it... She needs to deal with it herself. And you cannot help her do so.
You cannot feel adequate in a situation where you cannot either change the outcome for reasons outside of your control, or you have not been given the life experience or skills to deal with it.
Does that make sense? I thought about it for a good while after I wrote the original haha
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Inner dialogue fracturing [Re: pachoo]
#22226627 - 09/12/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's a very insightful post, pachoo.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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pachoo
Witchakookoo



Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 7,135
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Oh thank you! Was it really? I felt like it might have been confusing. Just glad someone actually understood it haha
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Eggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 3,097
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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The two self's the highest and the lower which is the ego a reflection of the highest. The truth is we manifest many different personalities just depending on who we're around. I had an outburst a couple weeks ago which I could of avoided. Holy shit I wish I had avoided it. I realized how petty I was being but it took me days to let go of that event I could of avoided in the first place. Once I let go of it I was in instant peace again. I've noticed positive voices/thoughts too I used to only had negative ones for the majority of my life. (fuck I gotta do that, fuck I gotta do this, fuck it's always something, WTF is wrong with that piece of shit, Ahhh son of a bitch, why my why me why me, everything is fucked, ect... Now I'm filled with blissful emptiness. It just keeps getting deeper and deeper and the longer I go without betraying my true will the longer it lasts between thoughts.
In the heat of the monument it really helps to ask "where am I the consciousness right now or when am I?" Really search for it.
Here's a great Jung quote.
Quote:
Most people confuse "self-knowledge" with knowledge of their conscious ego-personalities. Anyone who has any ego-consciousness at all takes it for granted that he knows himself. But the ego knows only it's own contents, not the unconscious and it's contents. People measure their self-knowledge by what the average person in their social environment knows of himself, but not by the real psychic facts which are for the most part hidden from them. In this respect the psyche behaves like the body, of whose physiological and anatomical structure the average person knows very little too. Although he lives in it and with it , most of it is totally unknown to the layman, and special scientific knowledge is needed to acquaint consciousness with what is know of the body, not to speak of all that is not known, which also exists.
From the Katha Upanishad Good being like the highest self(love and compassion for all) and the dear being the ego(selfish and petty)
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Different is the good and different is the dear, they both, having different aims, fetter you men; He, who chooses for himself the good, comes to wellbeing, he, who chooses the dear, loses the goal.
The good and the dear approach the man, The wise man, pondering over both, distinguishes them; The wise one chooses the good over the dear, The fool, acquisitive and craving, chooses the dear.
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He (the Atman), difficult to be seen, full of mystery, the Ancient, primaeval one, concealed deep within, He who, by yoga means of meditation on his self, comprehends Atman within him as God, He leaves joy and sorrow far behind.
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Rise, awake! Having obtained these boons, understand them! Like the Razor's sharp edge is difficult to traverse, The path to one's Self is difficult.
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Know that the Atman is the rider in the chariot, and the body is the chariot, Know that the Buddhi (intelligence, ability to reason) is the charioteer, and Manas (mind) is the reins.
The senses are called the horses, the objects of the senses are their paths, Formed out of the union of the Atman, the senses and the mind, him they call the "enjoyer".
-------------------- It's all for the s
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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When I was deeply into Be Here Now in the 70s, I remember being at a camping site at Yellowstone or Rocky Mountain National Park and seeing some people doing something that annoyed me mentally. Then, it seemed like a Presence in my Heart Center emitted a message that my Brain Center picked up and it was like someone in my Heart had said "Be kind to those people," or "Regard those people with love." I very much wanted reification for the Knowledge that I was so passionate about then, that it is entirely possible that my psyche evolved an autonomous complex, a subpersonality. This is similar to what yogis and Hesychastic Orthodox Christians do when their mantra is made to 'descend from the head into the heart.' The anonymous pilgrim in The Way of a Pilgrim has this happen after thousands of continuous mental recitations of The Prayer of the Heart (The Jesus Prayer) in conjunction with following the breath from head to chest as the various writings from The Philokalia, the contemplative instruction manual teaches. So, my experience and your's may well seem separate from our ordinary personality if we have split off an autonomous complex.
The Prayer of the Heart was very helpful to me, but I came to realize that it was a psychospiritual mechanism, not the special Presence of God's Holy Spirit in my Heart, not to say that It's not there, just that it was not identical with my psychophysical heartbeat and breathing. Psychic phenomena are sometimes described as vortices, chakras are often called that. Like a little whirlpool that forms two feet in front of the return jet in my pool, the whirlpool has a form, it even casts a shadow on the pool floor, but then it vanishes. Is it really a separate thing? Yes and no. A tornado is a temporary vortex of air that assumes the appearance, howl, and destructive force of some demonic entity. Then it ceases. Under certain conditions, the air takes a weird twist. Same with the psyche which is real as real can be but nowhere at all in space-time. Yet we somehow think it dwells in our brain or heart or gut. Funny about that.
BTW, I once treated a guy who had a dissociative disorder. He called his subpersonality "The Protector," and it would give him terrific resolve and physical strength if challenged, but only if he was in the right. It develped, along with a severe stutter, from physical abuse at the hands of his father. He was a big guy, but very timid inside. In one session, he began to rise up out of his chair and then he sort of collapsed down like a pocket telescope being closed quickly. It was a remarkable reaction, but in that moment, he finally integrated that subpersonality into himself. He always knew on an intellectual level that it was himself, but he needed to convince himself with this ritualistic and symbolic act that 'it' was part of himself. He succeeded and about 80-85% of his stutter disappeared, which was enough for him.
People dissociate in degrees. Blaming others for things is one level, it's either Projection of one of our own negative traits onto someone or some other culture, or Projective Identification wherein we not only project our shit onto someone, but we then treat them AS IF they were guilty of the projections we put on them. My ex-wife projected that I must be unfaithful to her (in reality she had been unfaithful to me). I was never unfaithful to her (not even when a house full of strippers moved in next door and would cajole me while topless from their back yard pool like legendary sea nymphs or Rhine maidens). At any rate, my ex began to treat me like I had in fact been unfaithful to her, which means that she was meaner than usual. Now she IS mentally ill. You do seem to be a good guy, but being human, you are no doubt "inadequate" in SOME way. Perhaps you are a hunt-n-peck typist like me. My typing is definitely inadequate. So are a number of things if I think about it. But those things do not qualify my entire existence, my total being as inadequate. This is one of those typical 'negative self-talk' contents that plague people's minds to which they react emotionally with various degrees of self-doubt. It's doubtful that a demon is inhabiting your Navel chakra so I would simply take note of the thought and refuse to attribute any reality to it. Buddhist call weird phenomena makyo (illusion) and advise that one not dwell on it even if it appears in some positive light. "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God..." - 1 John 4:1.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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It seems to me that you're becoming aware of the mind, the power of thoughts over your consciousness.
It could be that these good and bad thoughts are manifesting from different chakras, lower being more fearful and negative, higher being more positive... i'd advise to keep up with the neutral observation though, no need to even believe in chakras or anything.
IME peace is not found in thoughts or interpreting thought activity, but in learning to remain unattached to the streams and currents of thought processes, of course these things continue to arise but you can either give importance to them and energize them, or remain neutral and free of their influence.
All the best
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