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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced?
    #22225547 - 09/12/15 02:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It doesn't take much looking to see that the rate of divorce is skyrocketing, and all around me I see couples who clash endlessly. It seems that men and women, aside of seeking union with one another, don't generally get on that well.

It's got me wondering what the causes are. I've heard the old saying 'men are from Mars, women are from Venus' and I've observed that the sexes seem to be motivated by quite different factors (of course this is all a massive generalisation). It even seems that there are quite noticeable differences in the way we think.

Has culture played a role in the division of the sexes? I've heard of some interesting studies where boys are raised as girls and vice-versa, so it would seem that nurture plays quite a significant role.

But I can't help but think the divide seems to be growing. Is this something to do with steadily increasing gender equality, or are there other factors at work here?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22225794 - 09/12/15 05:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

No, the lines are more blurred.  If Father Knows Best were still in vogue, we would all be better off IMO.  Ward needed to be a little hard on the Beaver...


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleSun King
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22225854 - 09/12/15 06:06 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If women would stay in the kitchen having babies and stop the back talk things would be fine.


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Sun King] * 1
    #22225965 - 09/12/15 07:12 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Androgyny is more common than ever right now. Too hard to tell to what extent 'gender expression' is based on genetics and immediate family upbringing and to what extent it is based on the rampant cultural conditioning which instructs men and women, boys and girls on how to behave like their own sex.

edit - And then also how genetics and family upbringing can impact how a person reacts to the cultural definitions, ignoring them, adhering to them, rebelling against them, etc.


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Edited by WScott (09/12/15 10:07 AM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22226403 - 09/12/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Let's face it, you're right.  I think LE is right that a lot of lines that used to be firmly in place have been blurred.  I don't know whether we were really better off in the past, with its greater rigidity, but things are definitely not good now.  Men and women are on completely different wavelengths, and are really at cross-purposes for the most part, and seeing a truly happy marriage is like finding the Hope Diamond in your backyard.  Steadily increasing gender equality, and the confusion of masculine and feminine roles and types, must be a factor, among others.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22226509 - 09/12/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Men and women are on completely different wavelengths, and are really at cross-purposes for the most part, and seeing a truly happy marriage is like finding the Hope Diamond in your backyard.



You got it right there DQ, this is what I'm really driving at here. I feel like this situation is becoming steadily exacerbated, and I'm trying to understand why...


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22226619 - 09/12/15 11:01 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that there is no clear definition of what a man or a woman are supposed to be.  A hundred years ago there was a very clear definition.  And that definition is what all of the Susan B. Anthonys of the world worked very hard to dissolve.  Perhaps it's a matter of the confusion arising from not knowing who you are supposed to be in the eyes of a partner.

Or maybe it's just that the unfair sex has run amok. :laugh:

I dunno.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22226936 - 09/12/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

For Bruce Jenner to get awarded after "coming out" as a woman at the ESPYs is pretty telling.  Such courage, it's inspiring.  Really?  He got his balls busted by all those women and including his own daughters he literally had to become one to compete.  Then to profit from a TV reality show as this new woman, when he barely got short straw on the other show, isn't this new paradigm a great thing?


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22227319 - 09/12/15 02:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

if the divide between the two sexes is becoming more pronounced it's because the existence of the two sexes is becoming less relevant, imo, which is a good thing


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OfflineTripSip
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22227517 - 09/12/15 03:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Not sure. I guess that judging from the media and internet alone you get that kind of perception at the moment.

"Has culture played a role in the division of the sexes? I've heard of some interesting studies where boys are raised as girls and vice-versa, so it would seem that nurture plays quite a significant role."

What sort of studies have you been reading though? Its just that there are a number of psychological studies that have ended tragically (David Reimer).


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InvisiblepachooDiscord
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22228371 - 09/12/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It's hard to tell if it's actually a sexes thing or a personality thing for me...

For one you have society telling you how you should be, what you should expect, what to aspire to be, being masculine/feminine, or being completely irrelevant sexually at all. When I listen to it, I become very confused. I should want this? I should want that? I shouldn't have to deal with problems in a relationship that happens to be so small?

Get a man like this. Have a woman do that. Be the traditional, be the opposite. Be this to your partner. Don't let them do that. You have to be a strong woman. You have to be a strong man.

Aiming so high that you eventually exhaust yourself and end up disappointed with what you 'should' be able to receive/be. Listening to others instead of feeling what is right for you. You can do it all, they said. You don't need anyone else, but you deserve the best.

We want, want, want.

In a sense, it seems like males and females are looking for the next 'upgraded' partner. So instead of enjoying each other, they bicker and nitpick and destroy how they connected in the first place. Which makes them think they are intensely different.

I think alot of people get hung up on what they think they are promised.

Once you figure out who you are and tangible goals within the opposite/same sex and find a balance, I'm sure it's a lot easier. Electrical currents come to my mind when trying to visualize it. Balancing input/output. Balancing masculine/feminine with each other. 



(I am not talking about abuse or anything. That's never acceptable. Just general aspirations.)


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:heartpump::heartpump: :heartpump::heartpump:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: pachoo]
    #22232522 - 09/13/15 04:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that there is no clear definition of what a man or a woman are supposed to be.  A hundred years ago there was a very clear definition.  And that definition is what all of the Susan B. Anthonys of the world worked very hard to dissolve.  Perhaps it's a matter of the confusion arising from not knowing who you are supposed to be in the eyes of a partner.



I think that's a very perceptive suggestion DQ, something that I had not considered. It resonates with me, certainly. I guess it's quite hard to be objective about this kind of thing as so much of it takes place behind closed doors.

Quote:

pachoo said:
For one you have society telling you how you should be, what you should expect, what to aspire to be, being masculine/feminine, or being completely irrelevant sexually at all. When I listen to it, I become very confused. I should want this? I should want that? I shouldn't have to deal with problems in a relationship that happens to be so small?

Get a man like this. Have a woman do that. Be the traditional, be the opposite. Be this to your partner. Don't let them do that. You have to be a strong woman. You have to be a strong man.

Aiming so high that you eventually exhaust yourself and end up disappointed with what you 'should' be able to receive/be. Listening to others instead of feeling what is right for you. You can do it all, they said. You don't need anyone else, but you deserve the best.

We want, want, want.

In a sense, it seems like males and females are looking for the next 'upgraded' partner. So instead of enjoying each other, they bicker and nitpick and destroy how they connected in the first place. Which makes them think they are intensely different.



That's an amazing post pachoo, really like that. I think it follows on quite naturally from what DQ said; there's no clear definition because we're all so fucking confused by the ridiculous level of input coming in about what we should be/want, and it's all so fucking contradictory!

Rather than just being ourselves in a relationship, we look to society to tell us what we should be/want. Which is a shit situation, because our society is sick.

I recall reading something recently that suggested that many years ago, women would see their man [mostly] as a provider/protector, and perhaps wouldn't have expected a high level of emotional support from him; instead seeking this in family/other women. I'm sure this counts for men too. However now days, our partners are expected to be able to provide everything one could ever need in one handy, easy to reach package.

It strikes me that compartmentalising our needs and not expecting a single person to fulfill them all would be a more mature and healthy situation. But, oh fuck what's that? What, culture has fed us a bunch of lies to tell us that a single person can be everything you ever need?

What, society has lied to us!? Well I never...


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22236060 - 09/14/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If anything, gender equity should be an equalizing factor. However, I notice that even professional women still have a large mapped out surface of their brain (in those humorous depictions) that is labelled as a shoe fetish. What is it about women and shoes (forget about effete men)? I mean, high heels DO make a woman's legs appear to be longer (which is one sexual fetish which many people appreciate - long legs), but stilettos are also 'dangerous' and could put an eye out :lol: . Danger is a sexual fetish, the femme fatale trip. High heels also serve to put women on platforms, literally if they are platform heels (stripper-shoes). One might think that the professional woman is about business, but they are often not honest about such fetishes, and by fetish, I do not necessarily mean an object that serves to cause sexual arousal, but in the pre-Freudian sense of a magickal object imbued with power. Nevertheless, sex and magick (power) obviously overlap. A woman in a position of power (3rd chakra), who creates an appearance which utilizes fetishistic accoutrements (stiletto heels, facial makeup (one of the "enchantments" the fallen angels or Watchers taught to women in the Book of Enoch), earings (the oldest and most socially accepted piercing/'mutilation' in our culture), painted nails (exaggerating a certain animal quality of claws and danger) is using sexuality in the service of power. Meanwhile, those individuals who are powerful can use their power in the service of sex to intimidate subservient workers into having sex if they want to keep their jobs, or perhaps for promotional reasons. I knew a Lesbian counselor who slept with her male principal and became an assistant principal overnight.

What you might be seeing is more females engaging their 2nd and 3rd chakras in the manner in which men have exercised these powers in times past. With more women assuming positions of power instead of merely remaining in subservient roles, the male-female roles have equalized, but the equalization may appear to be one-sided. It's like desegregation when racist Whites thought they were being 'taken over' by a Black population which was only 10-12% of the total population. It 'appeared' to be a takeover relative to the absence of Black people amongst the Whites. There were civil rights clashes Black with White, but even now, women are still paid less for the same position than men are, and it's women who have been oppressed by the patriarchy. Watch the show Madmen, for example, to get a look at how women were regarded and treated between 1960 and1970. Men thought nothing of slapping or pinching their secretaries bottoms, or referring to then as 'honey,' or 'sweetheart,' or darlin'. You never saw female CEOs back then.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22246015 - 09/16/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The first sentence of OP is "It doesn't take much looking to see that the rate of divorce is skyrocketing....."

    This was only true from the early 60's to the late 70's. Since then the rate is declining.  The main theories for this:
1. The increase took place when society was adjusting to female equality.
2. Baby boomers were most likely to get divorced. Later generations are divorcing at lower rates.
3. People are getting married at older ages and are not so immature when they decide to get married.

    The downward slope in the divorce rate is much less steep than the previous increase, but the declining slope has been steady.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineCuriousMind

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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #22247210 - 09/16/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Gender dynamics have shifted greatly over the past few decades and very little thought has been given to just what effect this would have. At the moment I think the most immediately concerning issue is the dissolution of the family which in turn erodes basic moral values and decreases the overall productivity of younger generations.

One thing that stands out to me as a blatantly obvious problem with enormous negative consequences is the unfairness and bias of family and divorce court. We have allowed an institution which is supposed to help people and protect families to become infected with political and gender bias on one hand with the judges, and on the other its being held hostage by lawyers who feed on misery by syphoning money from parents and influencing the divorcees to hurt and take advantage of each other. As we all know this most often takes the form of the wife/mother being encouraged and awarded for bad behavior while the husband/father loses his kids, property and enters into indentured servitude. This whole situation has become pervasive and infected the very idea of marriage and gender dynamics. The advantages that women hold in this arena, along with the blind unconditional support they get from law enforcement has given them too much power.

So unfortunately when women become married, they almost immediately start to change, and whether they consciously realize it or not they start wielding their power over their spouses. Soon we see orders being given out like a drill sergeant. It stops looking like a healthy relationship and more like one person dominating another.

One more observation I've personally experienced is that among the dating pool of younger women they seem to expect so much and give so little in return. Its become too one-sided, there is less 'giving' and more 'taking' going on, basically.

I know how this is gonna sound but I think much of the problem is honestly being caused by females and modern day feminism. But society itself is effecting them and causing them to be this way. From the way they are raised, the way they are treated, the mixed messages they get from feminism, the court systems and so on.

There are just so many other things to consider as well. Our world has become too fucking complicated with all the conflicting information out there. Even our biology is being changed on a fundamental level by the way we live, the things we eat, hormonal changes etc.

And then there is feminism. A small vocal minority continue to lie about "rape culture" and rape statistics, they cause women to be paranoid and to think of all men in a negative way. Their is a loss in trust which goes both ways as more men see their peers being so harshly wronged by their own spouses. The feminists talk about the "patriarchy" constantly and "male privilege", but all the actual hard evidence seems to point to men being the truly marginalized and disposable gender.

What we do know is that males represent the majority of the homeless, the drug addicted, commit suicide more often, are beaten and murdered more often, and males are the majority of school drop-outs. We also statistically die earlier and are punished much more harshly for the same crimes. Females may get paid a little less, but males work longer hours on average and harder more physical and dangerous jobs. And yet virtually all government and medical gender-based aid is given to females. And this is pushed by feminism, not some bizarre "patriarchy" which seems to only victimize the very people who they claim are in control. Not to mention there is a serious problem with the way young boys are being treated in school. There are no positive male role models, and they are too often punished, shamed and even drugged simply for displaying normal healthy male behavior.

Don't get me wrong though. Its not like I think women = bad and wrong and men = good and right. I'm just looking at the basic facts and the causes and effects. I think the pendulum swung too far in the opposite direction and hopefully it will center itself one day.

I don't support the "red pill" way of thinking either. I do think they are right to point out the facts about feminism and modern-day issues that males face. Too often both men and women just want to say "man up" or "stop whining" when in reality the right thing to do is to have an honest and open discussion about this and stand up for yourself and others when you feel something is seriously wrong. But as for the "Red Pill", I think they have a tendency to oversimplify things and sometimes they even emulate bad behavior displayed by many of the worst feminists. At the worst they teach men to retaliate by taking advantage of women and 'gaming' them for sex and encourage psychological manipulation. At best, they talk about how to 'go your own way' and exist in a world with this unique set of problems as a man with self-respect who can live his own way by himself (though surely gaming women and spewing bitter vitriol won't help). But little to no emphasis is given on how things might possibly be fixed. They seem to have just adopted the attitude of "well, its broken so I guess that's that" and ignore how important and fulfilling it is to unite with a woman and start a family together.

So that's not the answer, but frankly I don't have the answer either. I just know its good for both genders to wake up and see that the path we are headed down is just going to lead to loneliness and an increase in misery for everyone. There are studies showing that females are more miserable now than before, which is why more and more are starting to open up to the idea that something has gone wrong.


Edited by CuriousMind (09/16/15 07:40 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: CuriousMind]
    #22247365 - 09/16/15 06:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

When I was a kid my friend told me his dad told him "Women are like water and men are like stones. It's the woman's job to wear down the stone, and it's the stones job to resist the water."

Didn't really understand that at the time.

Women want men to be like them. Or at least many of them have a desire for men to be as they perceive themselves. More feminine. More compassionate, more patient and understanding, more prim and beautiful, more joyful, more expressive, more emotional. But the ability for such a state to exist in nature is based upon the polarity of it and if polarity were to vanish, there would be nothing rather than one.

Something like this on a wide scale would normally be impossible in nature, but technology both in and of itself and in it's effect on social conventions from familial to national and even international has revealed new potentials. Technology helps make "our lives" easier. Government is here to keep "us" safe. In both cases the polarity has shifted away from the historical appearance of polarity. IOW, technology and government are "the man" and we collectively are "the woman" or "the bitches" depending on how it's perceived. Historically "the man" was always at the mercy of higher powers, being specifically "the rest of nature". We were all God's bitches.

I've found that such ahistorical contents are not so different from the real thing, though it does take a careful bit of "spin" to keep that particular top spinning. I suspect such states are ultimately unsustainable, or at least there is no less measure of strife to be found within the maintenance of these novel aberrations. It is as it always was. Unequal in practice.


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rahz

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22247470 - 09/16/15 06:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I thought it would be fun to share what Mr. William S. Burroughs' thoughts on the matter were.  (This in no way reflects my own views, necessarily.  Just for fun.)

Quote:

"In the words of one of the great misogynists, plain Mr. Jones in Joseph Conrad's Victory, 'Women are a perfect curse.'  I think they were a basic mistake and the whole dualistic universe evolved from this error.

"American women are possibly one of the worst expressions of the female sex because they've been allowed to go further...America is a matriarchal, white supremacist country.  There seems to be a definite link between matriarchy and white supremacy."

--from Literary Outlaw by Ted Morgan





For fun.  Refreshing fucking fun.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22248297 - 09/16/15 09:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

No, feminist extremists and other social justice warrior types are just louder then all the other voices in the conversation.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


Edited by Cognitive_Shift (09/17/15 11:18 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22251203 - 09/17/15 01:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I thought it would be fun to share what Mr. William S. Burroughs' thoughts on the matter were.  (This in no way reflects my own views, necessarily.  Just for fun.)

Quote:

"In the words of one of the great misogynists, plain Mr. Jones in Joseph Conrad's Victory, 'Women are a perfect curse.'  I think they were a basic mistake and the whole dualistic universe evolved from this error.

"American women are possibly one of the worst expressions of the female sex because they've been allowed to go further...America is a matriarchal, white supremacist country.  There seems to be a definite link between matriarchy and white supremacy."

--from Literary Outlaw by Ted Morgan





For fun.  Refreshing fucking fun.





Your post reminded me of this scene in 'The Witches of Eastwick':



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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22252563 - 09/17/15 06:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
It doesn't take much looking to see that the rate of divorce is skyrocketing, and all around me I see couples who clash endlessly. It seems that men and women, aside of seeking union with one another, don't generally get on that well.

It's got me wondering what the causes are. I've heard the old saying 'men are from Mars, women are from Venus' and I've observed that the sexes seem to be motivated by quite different factors (of course this is all a massive generalisation). It even seems that there are quite noticeable differences in the way we think.

Has culture played a role in the division of the sexes? I've heard of some interesting studies where boys are raised as girls and vice-versa, so it would seem that nurture plays quite a significant role.

But I can't help but think the divide seems to be growing. Is this something to do with steadily increasing gender equality, or are there other factors at work here?




I really have no clue on a large scale. Sometimes I get pretty annoyed with the female portrayal in the media and maybe that's indicative of the larger scale though. For instance I want my partner to feel capable, powerful, strong, willful, fulfilled, and valued. But when I watch a show such as America Ninja Warrior and watch constant focus on one female who made it through the course a year ago while a few hundred guys who've completed the same and more get 30-seconds or less, it jades me.

Not because I don't want to see a female succeed. I do. A female completing some of those obstacle courses would blow my mind and leave me shocked. No, it jades me because it feels stilted. Over-favoring.

The more I think about it the more bizarre it strikes me. On the one hand, extra-coverage makes sense. Cover the top female as much as you would cover the top male, even though she may not make it nearly as far. Another part of me wonders why that sort of equality has any place in our society at all. Where upper-body strength is the measure of success, a male has the advantage biologically. So why choose something so disparate as a point to try and create equality?

When the disparity is clear, to try and play equal is insane in some respects. It isn't equal. It's forced, obvious, and IMO often tiresome. Maybe it takes that forced nature to make any progress though. Maybe women do need to be engaged in extreme upper body activity because that's where we are socially. I don't really know. Like I said, I can't seem to grok what's happening currently on any large scale. And again maybe this is actually indicative of the larger scale. My personal lack of understanding of what's going on can lead to frustration. And perhaps the male populace is frustrated by this -- by not knowing wtf society is trying to accomplish. Having kids with no parents around because both are working doesn't seem to be helpful. The "extra" income didn't really play out as extra. It seems to have added strain on the family unit, created additional stress, and ambiguity in roles. Maybe women are just trying to progress anywhere and everywhere and guys can't grok that push at all. Maybe I am just too goal oriented. I want to see some benefit from this and haven't so far. Maybe women have and I'm jealous :smile:

On a personal level it strikes me as odd that we don't try to provide women with power, confidence, and success using more innate qualities but instead try to push some rather illogical boundaries. But boundaries are always pushed and sometimes turn out extremely beneficial to society. Truly, who gives a fuck if a few guys have to suffer? We've just been pampered too long.


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Kickle]
    #22254570 - 09/18/15 05:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

What about a black person of unknown gender who is all juiced up and never gets tested for drugs and never will be?

What about a washed up CEO who gets special treatment in the Republican debate to take on Trump to show how "powerful" she is?


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22254674 - 09/18/15 06:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

loud feminists really do seem to hate femininity. I don't get why being a housewife is considered degrading but a shitty 9-5 job is somehow empowering. careers suck, the only reason men do them is to prove their usefulness to females, so why do women now want to join in? to be more like men? how is that feminism?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: muckamuck]
    #22255101 - 09/18/15 08:41 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

muckamuck said:
loud feminists really do seem to hate femininity. I don't get why being a housewife is considered degrading but a shitty 9-5 job is somehow empowering. careers suck, the only reason men do them is to prove their usefulness to females, so why do women now want to join in? to be more like men? how is that feminism?




Simplistic doesn't quite convey your reductionism.:rofl2: Power is a universal motive, which in the case of those who crave it for its own sake, usually turns out to be evil. Career's suck? :lol: I don't think so. I had an enjoyable career that was not based on becoming wealthy, neither was it based upon attracting females. I worked 212 days of the year for 27 years in one gig. If the position didn't stop getting funded, I might still be doing it. I've been in a helping profession for over 30 years. Now I have a pension for the rest of my life, and a 403(B), no mortgage, no car payments, no debt. I take care of my wife who is also retired, and our home. Who says being a housewife, or a househusband for that matter is degrading? Not everyone needs a 2-person income, particularly if one person's career brings in more income that 2 people with 'jobs.' We get out of life what we put into it. It's called investing: of time, effort, and money. Money is financial power, and while I personally require a certain standard of living to be happy, I have never striven to become financially powerful. I live a life that is considerably philosophical for a 21st century man in a world of rife materialism.


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22255133 - 09/18/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:guiltyascharged:


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OfflineTENGOp
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: muckamuck]
    #22255215 - 09/18/15 09:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Markos just made us a nice humble brag sandwich


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: TENGOp]
    #22255270 - 09/18/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

he wouldnt have if muckamuck's post wasnt so dumb :shrug2:


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: quinn]
    #22255292 - 09/18/15 09:26 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

yeah I was rolling my eyes at myself there, it's : guiltyascharged :


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: muckamuck]
    #22255337 - 09/18/15 09:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup: ah cool... nice to see someone read and listen to someone elses' post on these boards for once :lol:


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: quinn]
    #22255658 - 09/18/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Who knew humans, in this day and age, could still utilize their literacy for communication.


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22256146 - 09/18/15 01:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ward needed to be a little hard on the Beaver...




Too bad only two people here get that joke. :ohwell:


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22256663 - 09/18/15 03:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Ward needed to be a little hard on the Beaver...




Too bad only two people here get that joke. :ohwell:




Three.


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: muckamuck]
    #22256766 - 09/18/15 03:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

muckamuck said:
loud feminists really do seem to hate femininity. I don't get why being a housewife is considered degrading but a shitty 9-5 job is somehow empowering. careers suck, the only reason men do them is to prove their usefulness to females, so why do women now want to join in? to be more like men? how is that feminism?




You need to consider, for one example, that Gloria Steinham is a CIA asset.  Consider that the family is an enemy of the elite and their minions such as Steinham is merely carrying out orders.  To say we are attacking the family by having both parents work, but that's reality.  Day Care!  There's your solution. Pre-kindergarten!  Cheaper day care. Wait until the kid is a little older?  Why, when mom is in such an important "career".

Even better, two working people often don't even have kids, who has time to raise a family with our important careers?

Why did woman "join in"?  Because those who dared to even admit to being "lazy housewives" after about 1975 were shamed.  There was a time when a woman would proudly announce that fact but no longer.  Now she must be working, going to school, doing a bunch of other activities and on Facebook and other social media to even matter.

Housewife?  Uh huh honey, here, sit down, let's talk about your being held prisoner and how you need to at least start volunteering time with the Sierra Club or some other important cause.

The Delta Smelt you save could be the one that makes a difference in our world.  Sure, it sounds fishy, but it's a worthy cause.  Little fish matter almost as much as whales.


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #22256966 - 09/18/15 04:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Career's suck? :lol: I don't think so. I had an enjoyable career that was not based on becoming wealthy, neither was it based upon attracting females.




I believe you and I think that's great. But the truth is the concept he was talking about is pretty much what makes the world go round. A majority of males working jobs they don't like but need to be done, and making progress in order to provide for family and prove themselves to females. It allows them to have a purpose and a healthy family. Without the progress we made under this system, you likely never would have been able to work a job like that. However even in a system like that the possibility existed for people to work a career that they love. Its not like we gained that by changing to a dual-gender work force.

Anyway polls have shown women are more miserable now than before they started working. I guess "liberation" is a good thing, women should have the choice somehow, but unfortunately the path we've taken has really just fucked things for the majority and the family unit has really taken a hit.

When it comes right down to it, I'll bet a large majority of women would be happier and more fulfilled as stay at home mothers and wives and men would be happy being useful again as provider and protectors. There will always be outliers to this, but should we really have sacrificed this system when it hurt the large majority of us?


Edited by CuriousMind (09/18/15 04:39 PM)


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: CuriousMind]
    #22257024 - 09/18/15 04:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

CuriousMind, you've been making some very interesting points.  I think the fact that studies show that in the main women are less happy now than before they were "liberated" is telling.  A large part of the idea, in the olden days, was that men worked so women wouldn't have to.  I'm not sure women ever actually knew what they really wanted, but the subversive ideas were attractive, and they had no other option, so the drive for "equality" was in large part what was chosen.  There is a hell of a lot of revisionism on this stuff when it comes to the actual history of the west, and what people were really thinking at say, the turn of the twentieth century (which, of course, is known).  Susan B. Anthony was, for a very long time, looked down on by women of all stripes.  I guess these women didn't know what was good for them.  Well, we've shown them!  Now people want Susan B. Anthony on our money.  The truth on this stuff wriggles around a lot, but the dominant story, that women have been liberated, is revisionist bullshit.


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22257121 - 09/18/15 05:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm glad some people understood what I was trying to say even if it was rushed and poorly expressed. I fully support equal rights and I know women have hardships, but so do men, we are all victims of the same system here. The majority of people pushing this I guess have good intentions, they just need to stop and think about the consequences before going ahead and overhauling everyones relationships according to some bizarre political ideology. Why would nature bother designing humans as male and female if those roles had no functional value or purpose? The majority of kids today are being raised by the state because women are too busy exercisng their right to help the rich get richer. I think it's a con and both sexes are suffering.

It's confusing for me to hear about gender inequality and the "patriarchy" or whatever because I've never witnessed anything like that in my life. Maybe it was different when Markos was growing up, but today, from my perspective, women have already achieved equality and then some, even if they don't realize the extent of it. Women have always been powerful, I know I'd much rather be punched in the face by a man than have my soul crushed by a woman. Artificially increasing female dominance is all well and good for dominant men, but for a nervous wreck with no confidence it can be hell, and there are a lot of us. I'm not a villain.

So yes, there is a growing divide and I suspect it may be part of a larger strategy of conquest we are seeing unfold. Maybe I am projecting a bit, or maybe I am still salty about how the whole gamergate thing was reported on, but I figure my personal frustrations may still provide insight into OPs original question.


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: muckamuck]
    #22257169 - 09/18/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

muckamuck said:
I think it's a con and both sexes are suffering.





100% true.  And the history books bear that out totally.  The women's rights movement, whatever merits it may have had, was based exclusively upon political expediency and its supporting propaganda.  No morality anywhere.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: CuriousMind] * 2
    #22257771 - 09/18/15 07:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

When it comes right down to it, I'll bet a large majority of women would be happier and more fulfilled as stay at home mothers and wives and men would be happy being useful again as provider and protectors. There will always be outliers to this, but should we really have sacrificed this system when it hurt the large majority of us?


You're fucking with me right? You're playing at being an Archie Bunker Republican from the 1970s right? My wife is a Cornell graduate. She was accepted to Princeton and University of Pennsylvania too, all Ivy League schools. Then she earned an MBA at my former school, the University of Maryland, but she NEVER used her MBA. And, she dropped out of American University law school after a year when she realized that she was being taught to be an arrogant asshole, which she did not want to be. School-wise, I never could've gotten into an Ivy League school, but I DARE you to speak this idiocy to my wife. She'd tear you another asshole and reduce your backward thinking to a pile of rubble. You'd crawl away feeling 2 inches tall for even entertaining such a regressive and in my opinion, socially retarded notion.

When I met my wife she had left her husband, who I know, who is a Black Supremacist. A Black woman herself, she was not having his bigoted trip any more, so she contented herself with raising her daughter for a full 10 years without dating, until she met me and asked me out. I was honored. She was not "happier and more fulfilled" in the roles of wife and mother, although she was successful in the latter role. Her daughter did not get involved with boys or drugs or criminal behavior. My wife is everywhere my equal morally and intellectually. She could have had a lucrative career if she didn't mind selling her soul to the powers that be. But she didn't, and I respect the Hell out of her for (1) getting accepted to American University law school and (2) accepted into the difficult University of Maryland MBA program.

When I met my wife, she was shelving books at Borders Books and Music for shitty pay along with kids and retirees, in the psychology section where I'd visit Friday nights. I'd have informal counseling with people around the analytic couch they had there, and she'd listen in. Capable of having at least two high-paying careers AND raising her daughter, she is a woman not to be reduced to some hideous 1950s stereotype of oppressed and sanctioned slavery and dependence. And btw, my step-daughter made more money her first year working in HR than I made after 20 years in my position. She travels all over for fun: the Caribbean for a friend's wedding, a long weekend in an in-inclusive Mexican resort, and now she's going to Thailand for a holiday. She's a whole lot more capable than many of my former lazy-ass male friends, and she doesn't appear to be interested in either marriage or motherhood. She has acquired positions by her own professional merits. If you're threatened by intelligent and capable women, it's time you dealt with it therapeutically. Women are not the weak, subservient, second-class citizens that you falsely believe them to be, and clearly women can be superior to men. Gender is irrelevant. I've been before female judges, had a female attorney handle my divorce, and have had surgery by a female surgeon, just to name a few examples of women who have held social roles superior to my own in those situations. Get with the 21st century man! :yesnod:


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22258009 - 09/18/15 08:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

What does working at a job have to do with "selling your soul to the powers that be"?  Is that what Britney Spears and Beyonce had to do to get their lucrative record contracts from the Illuminati?


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OfflineCuriousMind

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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #22258564 - 09/18/15 11:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:snip




No I'm not fucking with you at all. Wake up. You've been blessed with one of the best outcomes and it sounds like you are having a very hard time seeing things from other perspectives.

First off, if you look closely I said that I do believe women should have the choice to work if they want. Whenever someone dares to criticize or even just question our new system people like you just assume the worst and defend yourselves with narrow or circular logic like its a religion or something.

And what I also said is that I think many will find their careers unfulfilling in the end and wish they had spent more time with family or enjoying life in another way. No matter what they say when they are younger and more idealistic with stars in their eyes. This is evidenced by the fact that women are more miserable now than before. 

Just look at the yields of this little experiment. Women are less happy, men are more confused and less fulfilled, and perhaps the most damning of all is that the kids are worst off due to more single-parent homes and more homes with 2 parents working instead of one staying home to keep the house and raise the children.

There's also basic biology and human instinct to consider.

And keep this in mind, I'm not saying that some women won't be successful and fulfilled by working or pursuing other interests. I'm just saying because a large majority have been forced into this path or talked into it, many more women will be and have been led toward unhappy and unsuccessful paths. If you put down your feminist bible for one second you'd realize their is a huge difference between what I said and what you projected onto me.

As for fixing this mess, I don't really know. It seems to me that first off we'd be much, much better finding a way too encourage and support the nuclear family system, perhaps even with an option for working mothers and stay at home fathers. Also I think women should be wholly encouraged to be full-time wives and mothers if that's their wish. Ideally they could choose between this but unfortunately I'm not sure how a system could actually work given human nature. Its like in order to be more 'fair' and 'politically correct' we decreased actual happiness and family quality down a notch.

Women need to be told up front that just because they can have a career doesn't mean that it will actually make them happy. In fact, its likely that it won't, with a good chance it will have the opposite effect. They also need to be told that playing around in their 20s while assuming they can easily find someone and get pregnant in their 30s may also not work out.

And its not like being a full-time wife and mother means that's all your life is. Ideally one would hope that a person in this position will have constructive hobbies and friends. But at the end of the day, not everyone can win. Their will always be people who fail, get hurt, sick etc. Its just that our modern day society is now setting people up and has fallen for idealism rather than honesty.

The simple truth is most people cannot have it all, and trying to can ruin you.

And to drill this into your head, because circular religion logic is a stubborn thing, the question isn't whether women can be successful or do a hard job, its whether most of them really should even try. You look at yourself and your family and think, well gee, it worked out for us. But you're forgetting the large percentage of working women claiming to be unhappy. You're forgetting the divorce rate and increase in single parent homes and all the kids who've suffered and all the career women who look back filled with regret later in life and all the confusion and the divide between the genders. And basic human biology and instinct.

And guess what, most the women who want to be stay at home mothers and wives can't now. They don't realistically even have the choice. How fucking sad and ironic is that?


Edited by CuriousMind (09/18/15 11:53 PM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: CuriousMind]
    #22259377 - 09/19/15 08:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think CuriosMind has raised some amazing points, a lot of which have really resonated with me. DQ summed up a very interesting point here IMO:

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

muckamuck said:
I think it's a con and both sexes are suffering.



100% true.  And the history books bear that out totally.  The women's rights movement, whatever merits it may have had, was based exclusively upon political expediency and its supporting propaganda.  No morality anywhere.




This did too:

Quote:

CuriousMind said:
So unfortunately when women become married, they almost immediately start to change, and whether they consciously realize it or not they start wielding their power over their spouses. Soon we see orders being given out like a drill sergeant. It stops looking like a healthy relationship and more like one person dominating another.



I experienced similar. Not in as much as I was suddenly being ordered around (I wouldn't accept that), but more in the sense that suddenly a lot of what I do was 'a problem'. Whether the fact that getting married coincided with the end of the 'honeymoon period' I don't know, but the timing was eerily coincidental.


Quote:

CuriousMind said:
One more observation I've personally experienced is that among the dating pool of younger women they seem to expect so much and give so little in return. Its become too one-sided, there is less 'giving' and more 'taking' going on, basically.



I think this is quite salient too. I'm often amazed at the way men will fall over themselves for a good looking woman, regardless of the underlying personality. Markos raised a good point (in another thread I think) that there seems to be an inverse effect in terms of good looks vs. good personality. I wonder if this has lead to the kind of thing described above.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22259616 - 09/19/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
What does working at a job have to do with "selling your soul to the powers that be"?  Is that what Britney Spears and Beyonce had to do to get their lucrative record contracts from the Illuminati?




Right. There's an Illuminati who run the world, and they've endowed female pop music performers with fame and fortune because the ladies haven't earned that from their fans.:rofl2: Sorry, I don't usually laugh at delusional thinking, but this is SO ridiculous. The media moguls probably do seem like a sinister covert organization to you because they DO spin the truth which fools the multitudes who do not possess critical thinking skills. But the media is not the fictional Illuminati, so cherished by conspiracy buffs who as a group distinguish themselves by varying degrees of delusional thinking. I will recant my position on each conspiracy when it is demonstrated that there is evidence to the contrary. While I AM convinced that the 9/11 story is a cover story for covert actions, for example, I am NOT the least bit convinced that Reptilian species walk amongst us as in the TV shows 'V,' disguised as humans. Britney and Beyonce? :lol: At worst, they slept with the right people.

Obviously you haven't been in the adult world very long because your naiveté speaks loud and clear. Ever been solicited for sex to get a position? I have, from male and female. Ever take a position where you were instructed to lie to people? If that's OK to you you still won't understand the value I shared spoken to in in Mark 8:36, "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" Ever quit a job because you were expected to work with highly poisonous (in my case carcinogenic) materials without protective gear? I did. That's potential loss of life from liver cancer (unplasticized Polyvinyl chloride).

Ever had your life disrupted and a lawyer you employed has turned out to be incompetent, or dishonest about past experience with your situation, resulting in you taking a major loss? No again, right? I have. My lawyer never disclosed that my divorce was her first divorce case. Being taught to be arrogant, condescending, and obtuse is part of the law school experience. I have nothing to do with my only biological brother anymore because law school both elicited Shadow elements and taught him to use them - even against his only sibling. He became a despicable man, not after college, but after law school. I will not allow myself to be dissed and dismissed another moment from him. ¡Adios Bro! If you want to talk Illuminati, there is a 'brotherhood' of lawyers, often using their Freemasonry affiliation (I have no objections to Freemasonry itself, but then again, it's presence in the judicial system is as close to an Illuminati as I have seen. Even the twisted Charlie Manson saw that during his trial, as he flashed masonic hand signs at the lawyers wearing masonic rings). I see lawyers as a group as 'soulless' in the sense of their pride and mercenary nature. They bill you for every 6 minutes on a phone call. I can't even tell you how much free time I give to clients in my field for 1/3 of what lawyer charge per hour. These are the best explanations I can give you. If you don't get it, you don't get it, at least not yet. :shrug:


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InvisibleBigfeely123
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22262793 - 09/19/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

edit: riding my post because I have nothing valuable to contribute supposedly & don't want the creator of this thread to be irritated.

My apologies Jokeshopbeard.






Edited by Bigfeely123 (09/19/15 11:53 PM)


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Bigfeely123]
    #22262809 - 09/19/15 11:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Ask someone to Zen-slap you, you're a mess. 50% 0f the human race is crazy? Get yourself straight. You must only know woman who are as confused as you seem to be. Fortunately, I grew up and away from the madness you perceive. Hopefully you'll get your shit together enough to meet a woman who impresses the Hell out of you instead of the miscreants you're reporting on.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/20/15 10:35 AM)


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InvisibleBigfeely123
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22262823 - 09/19/15 11:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I was generalizing. So what? I'll say whatever I want.

EAT :cuteshit: PAL.

:evil:


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InvisibleBigfeely123
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Bigfeely123]
    #22262831 - 09/19/15 11:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Why did you edit your post? That was fast. Mr. edit ninja.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22263721 - 09/20/15 07:56 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've never had a potential employer or one that I worked for "solicit sex" from me.  Nor have I had an employer ask me to lie for them, nor would I.  Thankfully I went to Cornell so I got to choose who I wanted to work for, and not get hit up by a bunch of scammers. 

If you seriously don't think big money and the Freemasons and Illuminati aren't deeply involved with the "entertainment industry", and it's all about the "casting couch", I think you may be the delusional one.  Do a little research into Walt Disney and his affiliations, for example.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (09/20/15 07:59 AM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Bigfeely123]
    #22263819 - 09/20/15 08:41 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bigfeely123 said:
edit: riding my post because I have nothing valuable to contribute supposedly & don't want the creator of this thread to be irritated.

My apologies Jokeshopbeard.



Hey man, it's all cool. Whatever you have to say wouldn't irritate me - this is, after all, a place for free and open discussion, and if your ideas lead it slightly off topic, then so be it. Natural conversation flows from place to place!


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Bigfeely123]
    #22264129 - 09/20/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

"Eat shit?" No, I don't think so. You're more scatologically-minded. Nobody is telling you what to say or not say, but in a public forum, you're looking for responses, and in the colloquial, I thought that you were full of shit. But that's what happens to guys when decent females don't give them the of day, which was your complaint. Generalizing? Nothing as prejudicial, stereotypical, and just plain wrong as that! :lol: 50% of the human population are bad, mmmmkay. Yeah, I'd say that is as uncritical and as emotional a statement as someone could make. As Jim Morrison sang, "...women are evil when you're unwanted, streets are uneven when you're down..." Maybe, just maybe YOU have to make some changes about yourself. :rolleyes:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22264388 - 09/20/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

My wife is a Cornell graduate, but so is my twitchy, neurotic sister-in-law. A former childhood friend is a genetic engineer with the USDA up there. Rabidly conservative in his politics, we are no longer friends. A former Shroomerite I know who is also a Cornell graduate. He thinks Reptilian aliens walk amongst us, yet he is a well-to-do entrepreneur. :shrug: The school speaks for itself, but it doesn't necessarily define its graduates. I worked a lot of jobs as a kid: factory worker, truck driver, and hardware store employee, electrical supply store employee, before, during and after graduating from 3 universities. The unscrupulousness of potential employers is unrelated to MY character or the educational institutions I graduated from. I hear some inflation in your comment. It is respectable to have attended an Ivy League school, but again, that doesn't guarantee anything about one's correctness after the fact. My flakey sister-in-law likes to drop the Cornell name, my wife never does. Inflation can be a correlate of delusional thinking when paranoia is involved - when the author of said delusions feels special in his/her insight into the invisible operation of things like the political infrastructure.

Walt Disney is long gone, and the sexual embeds in his films were made after he was gone. They even censored the topless female centaurs in Fantasia with wreathes in 1940. The Disney corporation has no doubt taken on  corruption along with every other major corporation in America. Illuminati in Hollywood + Freemasonry is usually closely followed by an articulated (or unarticulated) delusion of an "International Jewish Conspiracy." Dystopian political delusions also cause their adherents to believe that the voting process is completely rigged with presidents picked by an Illuminati as illustrated in the film Being There with Peter Sellers. But that notion is as real as Sellers as Chauncey the gardner innocently walking on water during the end credits of the film. The adherents of such notions become disenfranchised, nihilistic, and then they don't vote. What happens is that the fascists who do vote elect a puppet like GW Bush and we are governed by a cabinet of psychopaths like Cheney et al. I can certainly entertain gnostic ideas about the grand illusions that are being constructed to hoodwink (to use a masonic term) the mindless multitudes, without ever embracing such notions as a 'belief.' Without good evidence, it's all circumstantial evidence and nothing is proved.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleBigfeely123
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22265684 - 09/20/15 04:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Ouch. My cyber feelings are crushed... Not sure how I'll ever recover.

:rolleyes:

:lol:

I didn't read anything you posted nor do I care to. I just saw two long essays written by you. So why waste your time by posting a 1,000+ word reply to a measly two or three sentence comment that I initially posted? If you feel so inclined to crucify me then private message me but for the sake of the thread why don't you just give it a rest pal?

"Bon voyage, TJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ!!!"

Someones obviously got internet tough guy syndrome...  :whacker:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Bigfeely123]
    #22265712 - 09/20/15 04:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bigfeely123 said:
Ouch. My cyber feelings are crushed... Not sure how I'll ever recover.

:rolleyes:

:lol:

I didn't read anything you posted nor do I care to. I just saw two long essays written by you. So why waste your time by posting a 1,000+ word reply to a measly two or three sentence comment that I initially posted? If you feel so inclined to crucify me then private message me but for the sake of the thread why don't you just give it a rest pal?

"Bon voyage, TJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ!!!"

Someones obviously got internet tough guy syndrome...  :whacker:



Man, please chill out. Markos raises some good points and he's got a lot of respect around here for good reason.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Bigfeely123]
    #22265949 - 09/20/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:bye: Oh, wait. Don't forget to take your projections with you. "Crucify?" Really? I never thought of correction or criticism as crucifixion, but I prefer my loquacity over potty-mouthed reactivity any day.
:jesus:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22267973 - 09/21/15 03:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Bigfeely, has big feelings :sadyes:


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: quinn]
    #22268627 - 09/21/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
Bigfeely, has big feelings :sadyes:




Apparently. But only "cyber-feelings." :rolleyes:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleBigfeely123
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #22268808 - 09/21/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Haha damn. You guys are still talking about me?

I'm famous! I am The Great Bigfeely!

You guys want an autograph? Come on... I know you want one.

:awesome:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22270193 - 09/21/15 04:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Please, leave your psycho analysis to others.  I don't believe in your craft, and certainly would never take anything you think you might know about me other than with a huge grain of salt.  A chunk of salt in fact.  I could surely throw out some "psycho" analysis of you based on observation of years of insecure defensive rambling rants of yours, but I think that goes beyond the rules.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22272752 - 09/22/15 06:08 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Your 'belief' in the mental health professions is irrelevant to my analysis of your words, but it says something about you (speaking of "insecure" and "defensive"). I don't know YOU, I just read your words. This post of your's seems more a projection onto me of your own insecurity (oh no, there's that "craft" stuff again) since you don't know me either. I have insecurities like everyone else, but it isn't in my field of expertise. Your hostile tone speaks more loudly than the content of your statement does to describe me with any accuracy. Your tone of expression indicates suppressed hostility, so let me suggest that you put me on your ignore list before you write something that is inappropriate, since getting banned is no fun. :bye:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinetrunksan
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22277727 - 09/23/15 07:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I really want to add something that my late grandmother told me and gave me a new perceptive:

She was a farmer just like a big percentage of people 100 years ago. When discussing about the position of women in modern society she said something like:

"Housewives in my time didn't exist, everyone woke up at 4-5am and we simply split the chores, women would prepare the food, men would feed the house animals and then we would all together go to the fields to care for the land and the animals.
Women had to work as much as men"

I tend to believe that the whole housewife "idea" is nothing but a post-war Western marketing invention.

----------------

I think the situation that we have now is much more honest. Even 30-40 years ago everyone was forced into roles, now people have much more freedom to define their lives.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: trunksan]
    #22278233 - 09/23/15 10:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've found that the vast majority of the history we all have floating around in our heads is revisionist and utterly colored by the dominant modern culture.  History is very hard to know.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22278314 - 09/23/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
If you seriously don't think big money and the Freemasons and Illuminati aren't deeply involved with the "entertainment industry", and it's all about the "casting couch", I think you may be the delusional one.  Do a little research into Walt Disney and his affiliations, for example.



Whilst I do find the Hollywood-business shady, I am yet to understand this Illuminati. Care to provide pure proof of The Illuminati?


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: trunksan]
    #22278414 - 09/23/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I tend to agree with you about conventional social forms. With modernization and mechanization, more time was freed up from hard labor. Just how that time was utilized became shaped by the power of marketing: magazines, newspapers, radio, newsreels at the theatre and of course the mother of media itself in the early 1950s into which I was born - television. Men and women were marketed to smoke cigarettes, for example, and which cigarette was supposed to have said something about the consumer. Men and women were portrayed on TV as 'the norm,' and fashions were more readily announced. If you watch 1950s TV, you'll see men sitting around their house in a jacket and tie, then putting on a hat when they went out. Hats of course were popular way back in time (manifesting which socio-economic class you belonged to) until the 1970s as I recall. TV was black & white, and so was adult vs. youth dress and language. Inheriting some of the Beat culture, teens began to separate their own culture from adults.  Teen culture only really developed after WW II, when teens 'rebelled' against adult manner of dressing. Soon, adults learned to adopt more and more of the new youth culture, the "Pepsi generation," and by the later 1960s adults loosened up (as evidenced by how adults were portrayed in 1960s, color TV). A division of labor was possible in non-agraric urban or suburban (a new concept post WW II) culture. Women did the house cleaning, shopping, and child-rearing while men worked for money. This began to change only in the 1960s when more and more women were being admitted to graduate schools for professions that earlier were restricted to men (doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc.). Don't forget the 'househusband,' a relatively new social position.


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Re: Is the divide between the sexes becoming more pronounced? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22287527 - 09/25/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've been reading a lot of Rainer Maria Rilke lately and this bit seems relevant to this thread. It is from his Letters to a Young Poet, letter 7. This was written in 1904...

Quote:

    It is also good to love: because love is difficult. For one human being to love another human being: that is perhaps the most difficult task that has been entrusted to us, the ultimate task, the final test and proof, the work for which all other work is merely preparation. That is why young people, who are beginners in everything, are not yet capable of love: it is something they must learn. With their whole being, with all their forces, gathered around their solitary, anxious, upward-beating heart, they must learn to love. But learning-time is always a long, secluded time, and therefore loving, for a long time ahead and far on into life, is: solitude, a heightened and deepened kind of aloneness for the person who loves. Loving does not at first mean merging, surrendering, and uniting with another person (for what would a union be of two people who are unclarified, unfinished, and still incoherent?), it is a high inducement for the individual to ripen, to become something in himself, to become world, to become world in himself for the sake of another person; it is a great, demanding claim on him, something that chooses him and calls him to vast distances. Only in this sense, as the task of working on themselves ("to hearken and to hammer day and night"), may young people use the love that is given to them. Merging and surrendering and every kind of communion is not for them (who must still, for a long, long time, save and gather themselves); it is the ultimate, is perhaps that for which human lives are as yet barely large enough.

    But this is what young people are so often and so disastrously wrong in doing: they (who by their very nature are impatient) fling themselves at each other when love takes hold of them, they scatter themselves, just as they are, in all their messiness, disorder, bewilderment. And what can happen then? What can life do with this heap of half-broken things that they call their communion and that they would like to call their happiness, if that were possible, and their future? And so each of them loses himself for the sake of the other person, and loses the other, and many others who still wanted to come. And loses the vast distances and possibilities, gives up the approaching and fleeing of gentle, prescient Things in exchange for an unfruitful confusion, out of which nothing more can come; nothing but a bit of disgust, disappointment, and poverty, and the escape into one of the many conventions that have been put up in great numbers like public shelters on this most dangerous road. No area of human experience is so extensively provided with conventions as this one is: there are life-preservers of the most varied invention, boats and water wings; society has been able to create refuges of every sort, for since it preferred to take love life as an amusement, it also had to give it an easy form, cheap, safe, and sure, as public amusements are.

    It is true that many young people who love falsely, i.e., simply surrendering themselves and giving up their solitude (the average person will of course always go on doing that), feel oppressed by their failure and want to make the situation they have landed in livable and fruitful in their own, personal way. For their nature tells them that the questions of love, even more than everything else that is important, cannot be resolved publicly and according to this or that agreement; that they are questions, intimate questions from one human being to another, which in any case require a new, special, wholly personal answer. But how can they, who have already flung themselves together and can no longer tell whose outlines are whose, who thus no longer possess anything of their own, how can they find a way out of themselves, out of the depths of their already buried solitude?

    They act out of mutual helplessness, and then if, with the best of intentions, they try to escape the convention that is approaching them (marriage, for example), they fall into the clutches of some less obvious but just as deadly conventional solution. For then everything around them is convention. Wherever people act out of a prematurely fused, muddy communion, every action is conventional: every relation that such confusion leads to has its own convention, how ever unusual (i.e., in the ordinary sense immoral) it may be; even separating would be a conventional step, an impersonal, accidental decision without strength and without fruit.

    Whoever looks seriously will find that neither for death, which is difficult, nor for difficult love has any clarification, any solution, any hint of a path been perceived; and for both these tasks, which we carry wrapped up and hand, on without opening, there is no general, agreed-upon rule that can be discovered. But in the same measure in which we begin to test life as individuals, these great Things will come to meet us, the individuals, with greater intimacy. The claims that the difficult work of love makes upon our development are greater than life, and we, as beginners, are not equal to them. But if we nevertheless endure and take this love upon us as burden and apprenticeship, instead of losing ourselves in the whole easy and frivolous game behind which people have hidden from the most solemn solemnity of their being, then a small advance and a lightening will perhaps be perceptible to those who come long after us. That would be much.

    We are only just now beginning to consider the relation of one individual to a second individual objectively and without prejudice, and our attempts to live such relationships have no model before them. And yet in the changes that time has brought about there are already many things that can help our timid novitiate.

    The girl and the woman, in their new, individual unfolding, will only in passing be imitators of male behavior and misbehavior and repeaters of male professions. After the uncertainty of such transitions, it will become obvious that women were going through the abundance and variation of those (often ridiculous) disguises just so that they could purify their own essential nature and wash out the deforming influences of the other sex. Women, in whom life lingers and dwells more immediately , more fruitfully, and more confidently, must surely have become riper and more human in their depths than light, easygoing man, who is not pulled down beneath the surface of life by the weight of any bodily fruit and who, arrogant and hasty, undervalues what he thinks he loves. This humanity of woman, carried in her womb through all her suffering and humiliation, will come to light when she has stripped off the conventions of mere femaleness in the transformations of her outward status, and those men who do not yet feel it approaching will be astonished by it. Someday (and even now, especially in the countries of northern Europe, trustworthy signs are already speaking and shining), someday there will be girls and women whose name will no longer mean the mere opposite of the male, but something in itself, something that makes one think not of any complement and limit, but only of life and reality: the female human being.

    This advance (at first very much against the will of the outdistanced men) will transform the love experience, which is now filled with error, will change it from the ground up, and reshape it into a relationship that is meant to be between one human being and another, no longer one that flows from man to woman. And this more human love (which will fulfill itself with infinite consideration and gentleness, and kindness and clarity in binding and releasing) will resemble what we are now preparing painfully and with great struggle: the love that consists in this: that two solitudes protect and border and greet each other.




edit: Grabbed more for the quote. I find the whole letter insightful and difficult to trim to a quote.


Edited by DisoRDeR (09/25/15 09:13 AM)


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