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Offlinemobiusrunner
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Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 129
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
WBS - no visible growth in a week... what next?
    #2222517 - 01/06/04 10:22 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

So about 9 days ago my friend Jorge made up 4 jars of WBS. He followed the standard WBS methods - soaked it overnight, pulled out the majority of the floaters, strained, rinsed, and PCd. He then innoculated each with 2cc of a Golden Teacher syringe he knows is good.

Now here he is, 9 days later and the WBS jars just look, well, wet. No visible mycelial growth at all.

Here are some reasons that I could think of why he got butkis...

- WBS coated in fungicide
It was some nicish WBS because he didn't want to get a ton of it and little canisters of it were on the fancy side. Is there any way to test for this? The canister doesn't say it was treated in any way, but it doesn't say untreated either.

- Bad water ratio
Jorge has been very confused about the water/WBS ratio thing. Some teks say to add water, some don't. He added a little bit to the jars (an inch or so) just to play to both sides.

- Innoculated too early
I don't think this is a problem, but the jars were still *slightly* warm when he innoculated them. Just a little bit warmer than room temp.

Any ideas or feedback would be greatly appriciated!

Oh, as would ideas on what to do next - toss the jars? try to re-innoculate? Things to try next time?


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By "I", I of course mean a good friend of mine who happens to live in the fine city of Amsterdam. "I" is just so less awkward.


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Invisiblemicro
bunbun has a gungun
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Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
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Re: WBS - no visible growth in a week... what next? [Re: mobiusrunner]
    #2222576 - 01/06/04 10:47 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Simply soaking overnight and straining should work -- no way you can easily fuck up the water content if you do it this way.

I'd just give them more time -- worst thing that could happen is they contaminate, but they could be fine -- who knows? Not much else you can do, but I wouldn't reinoc yet, and if you're using spore solution you probably don't want to waste it just incase.... If you want, in the meanwhile, why notknock up some more jars, or karo or something?

--
Micro


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Offlinem0rb
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Registered: 05/07/03
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Loc: New England
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Re: WBS - no visible growth in a week... what next? [Re: mobiusrunner]
    #2222709 - 01/06/04 11:49 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Hello Mobius,

Your friend said that the jars were "Just a little bit warmer than room temp." Does this mean that they were just a little warm on the outside of the jars? If so, the inside middle of the jars could have still been pretty hot. If thats the case, you could see a slight degration in spore germination and ultimate colonization time. I'm sure you'll be fine though. If its pretty hot when you inoc, the spores usually die. If the jars were relatively cool, they should be alright... just give them some more time.

Did your friend shake the jars while they were still hot after comming out of the PC? My friend typically likes to shake the WBS jars when they first come out to evenly distribute the wet and dryer grains, and to break up the grains so they can be shook later to speed up colonization of the substrate. If you did not shake the jars while they were still hot, its possible the substrate isnt as light and aerated as it needs to be for optimal growth. You still might be able to give those jars a shake though! Good luck.

-m0rb-


--------------------
"The business of America is business," - Calvin Coolidge


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OfflineSatori1
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Registered: 12/05/03
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Re: WBS - no visible growth in a week... what next? [Re: mobiusrunner]
    #2222729 - 01/06/04 11:59 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

what temp are the jars being stored at?
84-86 is best for quick growth.
patience is key, give it some more time.
yes if you soak it gets just the right amount of water absorbed into the WBS, so no water needs to be added to jars.
Yeah I like to go with the 50 LB. bags of bulk WBS rather than that fancy shmancy stuff.


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OfflineJetBlackNinja
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Re: WBS - no visible growth in a week... what next? [Re: m0rb]
    #2222737 - 01/06/04 12:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

IT's cause you went from syringe to WBS straight. Just took mine almost 3 weeks to show mycelium, but then it was pretty quick after that.

Let me explain why i think this is. The spore have a hard time seeking each other out and getting started when injected raw into a large area such as a QT jar.

When you use spore in the PF Tek it holds some spore right at the innoculation point, up against the glass. The looser WBS does not do this.

Next time you are going to innoculate WBS jars, do not use a raw syringe (I know I will never make that mistake again). Instead use one of the following innoculation methods.

1. Kyro Tek.

2. G2G Transfer.

3. Poor Man's Syringe Tek (see #5)

4. Agar transfer

5. Mycelium Water (I still suck at this one)


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Offlinemobiusrunner
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Registered: 10/14/03
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Re: WBS - no visible growth in a week... what next? [Re: mobiusrunner]
    #2223140 - 01/06/04 02:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the info guys!

The outside of the jars was just a bit over room temp. I mean *just* barely.

The jars were shaken twice - once right after innoc. and yesterday.

Jorge has a sweet tub-in-a-tub incubator set up so no worries about the temps.

Jorge is planning on casing a PF cake he made up a while back - he'll try g2g with some of it's mycelium and some of the leftover WBS and let me know how it goes...


--------------------
By "I", I of course mean a good friend of mine who happens to live in the fine city of Amsterdam. "I" is just so less awkward.


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OfflineErik006
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Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 310
Loc: Ontario
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Re: WBS - no visible growth in a week... what next? [Re: mobiusrunner]
    #2223595 - 01/06/04 05:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

JetBlackNinja, this is what I think/thought also, but i've had my first succesful spore germination in WBS, and  I'm not sure if this is the problem anymore, (although i must add that I must have used like 10cc's of my sporesolution. Putting live mycelium into a WBS jar
has resulted in colonisation, even though my jars were too wet, I think its just a matter of trying, trying again, and trying some more until you get it right. I'm gonna have to go out and buy some more WBS though cause I finished off my old bag :frown:

Maybe I should try another brand because I had problems?

Erik006


--------------------
At last you know what ineffable is, and what ecstacy means


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: WBS - no visible growth in a week... what next? [Re: Erik006]
    #2223602 - 01/06/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

What kind of bird seed is best? like finch seed? anything small i guess or what?


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Offlinem0rb
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Registered: 05/07/03
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Re: WBS - no visible growth in a week... what next? [Re: Yarry]
    #2224686 - 01/07/04 01:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

My friend has had great results with penningtons "Finch Food". Not too many sunflower seeds either. Good stuff.

-m0rb-


--------------------
"The business of America is business," - Calvin Coolidge


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: WBS - no visible growth in a week... what next? [Re: m0rb]
    #2224703 - 01/07/04 01:44 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

so sunflower seeds are bad but the rest are cool?


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Offlineiggy
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Registered: 12/14/03
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Re: WBS - no visible growth in a week... what next? [Re: Yarry]
    #2224835 - 01/07/04 02:59 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

sunflower seeds are ok... they add lignin which is a good thing. just make sure you let the endospores germinate b4 pc'ing


--------------------
Zip-"Mok, are we evil?"

Mok-"Do you know what evil spelled backwards is? Live. And we all want to do that dont we?"




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OfflineJetBlackNinja
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Re: WBS - no visible growth in a week... what next? [Re: Erik006]
    #2225204 - 01/07/04 08:29 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Erik006 said:
JetBlackNinja, this is what I think/thought also, but i've had my first succesful spore germination in WBS, and  I'm not sure if this is the problem anymore, (although i must add that I must have used like 10cc's of my sporesolution. Putting live mycelium into a WBS jar
has resulted in colonisation, even though my jars were too wet, I think its just a matter of trying, trying again, and trying some more until you get it right. I'm gonna have to go out and buy some more WBS though cause I finished off my old bag :frown:

Maybe I should try another brand because I had problems?

Erik006




If you think you were having problems with the brand of seed you were using you should definatly change. Look for a mixture that contains primarily Millet. It can have other stuff in there too though.

I have had much success getting WBS to take from syringe, but it is a slow and painful process. I am learning that things like Mycelium water, and liquid innoculates speed this process up 10 fold.


--------------------


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OfflineErik006
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Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 310
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: WBS - no visible growth in a week... what next? [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2225229 - 01/07/04 08:46 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, i probably will change, although I had succes the last time i tried the same wbs. Ill probably just innoculate with agar anyway, im trying to move away from spores.

Erik006


--------------------
At last you know what ineffable is, and what ecstacy means


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