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OfflineBitter Cactus
reformed bad boy
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22232812 - 09/13/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

But ya if topdog seriously does have the cure for ADD he could easily be a millionaire/billionaire if he sells that information.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinetopdog82
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Registered: 07/16/10
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Shiithead] * 1
    #22232817 - 09/13/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shiithead said:
Lmao xD sociopath??? Is there some blood-work I can get done to prove that like ad(h)d and depression/anxiety??

Oh wait you can't because there are no such things...



Well I disagree. But my takeaway here was that the sadness and suffering is part of life. If someone says "I am depressed". I will ask them "What do you eat? How much do your exercise? How much do you smoke? Do you wakeup before 9am with a general goal for the upcoming months? and the day ahead of you? Do you show appreciation for the few people in your life who mean a lot to you? How long has this depression lasted? Do you smoke weed? Do you even go to class?"

Most people who I have met who are "depressed" simply are in a bad breakup, or put little effort to improve themselves or their life outlook. If ALL natural approaches are exhausted with little to no improvements, then your depression is clearly an issue with your brain's macrostructure. Hence SSRI's may be your only choice. But 90% of people haven't tried natural means. Suffering is real. Very real. And its part of life. But taking strong medication is a last resort and only for those who absolutely need it and have serious structural issues in their brain


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Offlinetopdog82
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22232824 - 09/13/15 05:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
But ya if topdog seriously does have the cure for ADD he could easily be a millionaire/billionaire if he sells that information.



Its not going to work. People will get butthurt. By the time I say "Try this treatment for 20-30 minutes a day" instead of "take speed" they will have lost me


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22232833 - 09/13/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I can cure any mental illness.


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Registered: 03/11/08
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 days
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22232838 - 09/13/15 05:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
But ya if topdog seriously does have the cure for ADD he could easily be a millionaire/billionaire if he sells that information.




Well, it turns out once he explained himself, what he was claiming actually isn't that far off from the standard understanding. It seems that his biggest point of contention is the definition of "disease" and whether or not you would say someone "has" ADHD if their symptoms are fully controlled and stable.

Personally, I would say yes, because they require some regimen, be it behavioral, pharmacological, or a combination thereof, to prevent a specific set of symptoms from interfering with their life. It seems that topdog takes issue with this understanding.


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Offlinebennylava
Bad example


Registered: 05/29/15
Posts: 587
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22232841 - 09/13/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
I just did like 5 hours of homework so my ADD treatment is working well for me. I know all people benefit from amphetamines (maybe?), but overall all people benefit from xanax and not everyone should be put on xanax.





Did you read my last post?

Maybe we're different. I don't benefit from amphetamines at all. They royally fuck me up. So much so, that I imagine doing meth would be like some kind of hell. I get paranoia, racing mind that won't stop, heart pounding, and focusing on crap I don't give a rip about, for waaay too long. I sat there and polished every bit of rust off of all the steel in my freaking SCRAP PILE. As if thats somehow a sensible thing to do. They're not for me.

And it really sounds like there are people out there, who think this isn't a real disease. Of course there are going to be misdiagnosis going on. That's not in the least bit exclusive to ADD, you know. Truth be told they still don't fully understand this disease, and all its causes. They won't until the human brain is fully understood, and that's probably 30 years off.


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Registered: 03/11/08
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22232848 - 09/13/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
But ya if topdog seriously does have the cure for ADD he could easily be a millionaire/billionaire if he sells that information.



Its not going to work. People will get butthurt. By the time I say "Try this treatment for 20-30 minutes a day" instead of "take speed" they will have lost me




If you practice meditation for even 10-15 minutes a day and you have ADHD, it will significantly help you control your symptoms. That's definitely true.


--------------------


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InvisibleCowb0yNeal00
Other


Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 11,059
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22232861 - 09/13/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
But ya if topdog seriously does have the cure for ADD he could easily be a millionaire/billionaire if he sells that information.



Its not going to work. People will get butthurt. By the time I say "Try this treatment for 20-30 minutes a day" instead of "take speed" they will have lost me




If you practice meditation for even 10-15 minutes a day and you have ADHD, it will significantly help you control your symptoms. That's definitely true.



very true, will probably even help for depression.


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Offlinetopdog82
Death Spirit
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22232863 - 09/13/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
But ya if topdog seriously does have the cure for ADD he could easily be a millionaire/billionaire if he sells that information.




Well, it turns out once he explained himself, what he was claiming actually isn't that far off from the standard understanding. It seems that his biggest point of contention is the definition of "disease" and whether or not you would say someone "has" ADHD if their symptoms are fully controlled and stable.

Personally, I would say yes, because they require some regimen, be it behavioral, pharmacological, or a combination thereof, to prevent a specific set of symptoms from interfering with their life. It seems that topdog takes issue with this understanding.



Like I said, for a recovering meth addict of many years, I guess speed in combo with neurofeedback would be the only choice. But sorry BC. I will not tell you good things about your bad habits :thumbup:
Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
But ya if topdog seriously does have the cure for ADD he could easily be a millionaire/billionaire if he sells that information.



Its not going to work. People will get butthurt. By the time I say "Try this treatment for 20-30 minutes a day" instead of "take speed" they will have lost me




If you practice meditation for even 10-15 minutes a day and you have ADHD, it will significantly help you control your symptoms. That's definitely true.



there we go! Glad to see someone is seeing my point of view. Its really not that hard to understand. If this is pursued for months STILL isn't enough then I guess low dose amps could be the only choice left


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Offlinetopdog82
Death Spirit
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Cowb0yNeal00]
    #22232871 - 09/13/15 05:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cowb0yNeal00 said:
Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
But ya if topdog seriously does have the cure for ADD he could easily be a millionaire/billionaire if he sells that information.



Its not going to work. People will get butthurt. By the time I say "Try this treatment for 20-30 minutes a day" instead of "take speed" they will have lost me




If you practice meditation for even 10-15 minutes a day and you have ADHD, it will significantly help you control your symptoms. That's definitely true.



very true, will probably even help for depression.



Lol Im so glad people are done contorting my pure intentions. Like I said, if this doesn't work, then break out the harder medication. But speed is not a go-to solution for attention issues

Yay for logic!
:thumbup:


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OfflineLSDreamer
Materialist
Male


Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 10,052
Last seen: 7 years, 8 days
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22232875 - 09/13/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
But ya if topdog seriously does have the cure for ADD he could easily be a millionaire/billionaire if he sells that information.




Well, it turns out once he explained himself, what he was claiming actually isn't that far off from the standard understanding. It seems that his biggest point of contention is the definition of "disease" and whether or not you would say someone "has" ADHD if their symptoms are fully controlled and stable.

Personally, I would say yes, because they require some regimen, be it behavioral, pharmacological, or a combination thereof, to prevent a specific set of symptoms from interfering with their life. It seems that topdog takes issue with this understanding.



Like I said, for a recovering meth addict of many years, I guess speed in combo with neurofeedback would be the only choice. But sorry BC. I will not tell you good things about your bad habits :thumbup:
Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
But ya if topdog seriously does have the cure for ADD he could easily be a millionaire/billionaire if he sells that information.



Its not going to work. People will get butthurt. By the time I say "Try this treatment for 20-30 minutes a day" instead of "take speed" they will have lost me




If you practice meditation for even 10-15 minutes a day and you have ADHD, it will significantly help you control your symptoms. That's definitely true.



there we go! Glad to see someone is seeing my point of view. Its really not that hard to understand. If this is pursued for months STILL isn't enough then I guess low dose amps could be the only choice left




Like I said, behavioral and lifestyle changes should be first-line. However, it's not always as simple as that. Often psychiatric medication simply needs to come first in order to enable the patient to make lifestyle changes.

You came into this with an extremely inflammatory statement which you don't even really seem to support at this point. That's why you got thrashed.


--------------------


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Offlinetopdog82
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
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Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22232898 - 09/13/15 05:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Glad we are on the same page mate. We agree. Some people are so riddled with issues that medication is all they got. But the takeaway here is "When all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail". I have met too many people with low self esteem because they are labelled "ADHD". most of them could be cured. and all of the ADHD people I know who are health nuts and meditating hippies like me have confirmed my hypothesis. None of them need medication and told me diet and meditation was a silver bullet. Meditation and neurofeedback are both powerful ways of controlling the mind

That being said, I know an autistic and ADHD kid on my street. Massive doses of dexedrine are the only thing that stuck with his mild autism and ADHD :feelsbadman:


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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
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Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22232903 - 09/13/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If you guys want to have things put into perspective, you should see Dr. Satan.


I bet you won't have trouble focusing after meeting...



--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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InvisibleCowb0yNeal00
Other


Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 11,059
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22232912 - 09/13/15 05:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
But ya if topdog seriously does have the cure for ADD he could easily be a millionaire/billionaire if he sells that information.



this made me laugh :smugjerry:


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Offlinetopdog82
Death Spirit
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Cowb0yNeal00]
    #22232931 - 09/13/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cowb0yNeal00 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
But ya if topdog seriously does have the cure for ADD he could easily be a millionaire/billionaire if he sells that information.



this made me laugh :smugjerry:



:smugjerry:


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Registered: 03/11/08
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22232947 - 09/13/15 05:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Also, the fact is that people fucking suck at changing their habits. It's just a fact. Conditions that are managed primarily by lifestyle changes like diabetes and substance dependence have garbage outcomes. We can sit here all day explaining why behavioral changes should be the first-line treatment for a given mental disorder, but that won't change reality.

When psychiatric medication works, it fucking works. It's like a goddamn miracle. When I finally found a treatment regimen that worked for me, it was like I had been thinking and moving through molasses or thick fog and didn't even really know it, and it suddenly cleared. Psychiatry can often be frustrating because we don't really have a good way to target meds yet, so you have to figure out what works for each patient through trial and error. This is often very discouraging and frustrating for the patient and sometimes leads them to believe nothing will help them when in reality there probably is a treatment regimen that would.


--------------------


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OfflineBitter Cactus
reformed bad boy
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Cowb0yNeal00]
    #22232966 - 09/13/15 05:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Meditation is fine and it will do something, but for a lot of people with serious mental disorders you need medication and therapy too. The hippy stuff helps, but it is not going to help the ADD that much.

If you post some clinical studies topdog showing meditation cures ADD like you said then I will be more receptive. Since you are more knowledgeable then doctors about how to treat every mental illness you clearly have the clinical studies right?

Also, for most people doing the meditation thing in combination with therapy and treatment is the best approach. But to say meditation cures or treats ADD as effectively as stimulants I just ask you provide me a link to extensive clinical trials that prove that statement.

Thanks.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineBitter Cactus
reformed bad boy
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22232975 - 09/13/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Provide me clinical trials showing meditation is more effective then medication for ADD.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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InvisibleCowb0yNeal00
Other


Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 11,059
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233003 - 09/13/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

they won't allow it cause u can't make money off of it. You just have to try it yourself. No medical guys needed :underage:


Edited by Cowb0yNeal00 (09/13/15 06:03 PM)


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233016 - 09/13/15 06:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Also, the fact is that people fucking suck at changing their habits. It's just a fact. Conditions that are managed primarily by lifestyle changes like diabetes and substance dependence have garbage outcomes. We can sit here all day explaining why behavioral changes should be the first-line treatment for a given mental disorder, but that won't change reality.

When psychiatric medication works, it fucking works. It's like a goddamn miracle. When I finally found a treatment regimen that worked for me, it was like I had been thinking and moving through molasses or thick fog and didn't even really know it, and it suddenly cleared. Psychiatry can often be frustrating because we don't really have a good way to target meds yet, so you have to figure out what works for each patient through trial and error. This is often very discouraging and frustrating for the patient and sometimes leads them to believe nothing will help them when in reality there probably is a treatment regimen that would.



Well IMO we need to change the way that we look at issues entirely and get to the root of them

And before someone calls me arrogant, please save it. I have struggled and been labelled ADHD, been sucidally depressed, and have barely recovered from serious disease that nearly killed me. Encouraging people to change their habits is always the start. Adderall was a silver bullet for me. But it added to my underlying depression and I had to go through a bunch of shit to figure out what should be obvious; the food you eat fuels your brain and the ratio of omega3 to 6's is vital for proper brain function etc.

The issue is much larger and more complex. Doctors used to genuinely care about issues and be close to patients. But the messed up healthcare system has truly put people in a shitty place

And I guess if that doesn't work then medication is needed. But my parents for example mean very well. But they are unhealthy. Not because they are hedonists addicted to junk food. But because "health food" such as sugary cereals  are marketed as being nutritous and full of vitamins. Well if you have every american starting thier day with captain crunch, we cant be surprised when they have attention issues. I rarely make value judgements (besides BC because he twists my words), but this is an issue on a societal level. I guess at the end of the day its a symptom of the modern age
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Meditation is fine and it will do something, but for a lot of people with serious mental disorders you need medication and therapy too. The hippy stuff helps, but it is not going to help the ADD that much.

If you post some clinical studies topdog showing meditation cures ADD like you said then I will be more receptive. Since you are more knowledgeable then doctors about how to treat every mental illness you clearly have the clinical studies right?

Also, for most people doing the meditation thing in combination with therapy and treatment is the best approach. But to say meditation cures or treats ADD as effectively as stimulants I just ask you provide me a link to extensive clinical trials that prove that statement.

Thanks.



https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=meditation+adhd+research&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0CBsQgQMwAGoVChMI7p-CqZz1xwIVSzKICh1QjQh9

There's oodles of research and EVERYONE who has had ADHD (and I know at least 10 in this category) that has tried meditation and/or neurofeedback has told me it gets the job done much better

I have had a bag of adderall that I took years ago and have had 0 drive to take it. I have striaght A's and B's with much less effort and I am doing a double major at a high ranking uni


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