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Detached
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#22223623 - 09/11/15 06:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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ADHD is merely a medical racket. I do believe that some people have actual true ADHD but the number of kids diagnosed with this disorder has exploded over the last 20 years and this is due to the profit generated from pushing pharmaceutical speed to kids and their parents in the name of science.
But the point that I think you are missing OP, is that most disorders are really just symptoms of an underlying greater "disease".
Manic depression, bipolar and paranoid schizophrenia all share similar symptom. A cough is a symptom of the flu as well as the bubonic plague or bronchitis.
Western medicine doesn't treat the disease itself. It treats the symptoms.
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bennylava
Bad example


Registered: 05/29/15
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Also there is something of a cure for ADD. I've had it since I was a child and its had a big impact on my life.
SSRIs. Zoloft pretty much banished my ADD. I know normalcy now. Whatever my problem is, its definitely seratonin related. No question.
Unfortunately, SSRI's have their own baggage, but at the low dosage needed to get rid of MY a.d.d, its not really much of a problem. 25mg taken at the same time every day, kills my ADD completely. I become... something better. My college classes just aren't all that bad anymore, as I can actually get the work over with. I can't even mention all the positive effects its had on my life. That's just how it affects me.
This is something my A.D.D specialist Doc recommended as something of a new treatment of A.D.D. Dr. Mike White of Joshua Family Medicine, if you want to look him up. Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: OP your anecdote about your experience with ADD does not mean ADD does not exist.
I am going to ask you to go to medical school and become a doctor before making these claims.
The medical community, as in doctors, in your country and mine are in agreement that this condition exists and must be treated.
You can debate that all you want but the scientific community overwhelmingly disagrees with you.
What it is, is a neurological disease. But we all probably already knew that. But the thing is, that some people may not realize, is that its just one side effect of a larger problem. A.D.D isn't the cause, or the result of one thing. Its more like with a cold. With a cold, I have a runny nose, maybe a headache, a sore throat, etc. ADD is just another "sore throat".
Other problems that come with the main disease, are a general negative attitude, depression, asocial tendencies, social anxiety disorders, tourettes, and the list just goes on and on. ADD is just another one on the list. I was told by the doc that it was an underdeveloped part of the brain, back in the mid 90s when I was just a kid.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: bennylava]
#22223650 - 09/11/15 07:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Detached said: ADHD is merely a medical racket. I do believe that some people have actual true ADHD but the number of kids diagnosed with this disorder has exploded over the last 20 years and this is due to the profit generated from pushing pharmaceutical speed to kids and their parents in the name of science.
But the point that I think you are missing OP, is that most disorders are really just symptoms of an underlying greater "disease".
Manic depression, bipolar and paranoid schizophrenia all share similar symptom. A cough is a symptom of the flu as well as the bubonic plague or bronchitis.
Western medicine doesn't treat the disease itself. It treats the symptoms.
beautiful post sir. I am rating you as 5 shrooms. Very complex idea presented in a simple to digest way

Quote:
bennylava said: Also there is something of a cure for ADD. I've had it since I was a child and its had a big impact on my life.
SSRIs. Zoloft pretty much banished my ADD. I know normalcy now. Whatever my problem is, its definitely seratonin related. No question.
Unfortunately, SSRI's have their own baggage, but at the low dosage needed to get rid of MY a.d.d, its not really much of a problem. 25mg taken at the same time every day, kills my ADD completely. I become... something better. My college classes just aren't all that bad anymore, as I can actually get the work over with. I can't even mention all the positive effects its had on my life. That's just how it affects me.
This is something my A.D.D specialist Doc recommended as something of a new treatment of A.D.D. Dr. Mike White of Joshua Family Medicine, if you want to look him up. Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: OP your anecdote about your experience with ADD does not mean ADD does not exist.
I am going to ask you to go to medical school and become a doctor before making these claims.
The medical community, as in doctors, in your country and mine are in agreement that this condition exists and must be treated.
You can debate that all you want but the scientific community overwhelmingly disagrees with you.
What it is, is a neurological disease. But we all probably already knew that. But the thing is, that some people may not realize, is that its just one side effect of a larger problem. A.D.D isn't the cause, or the result of one thing. Its more like with a cold. With a cold, I have a runny nose, maybe a headache, a sore throat, etc. ADD is just another "sore throat".
Other problems that come with the main disease, are a general negative attitude, depression, asocial tendencies, social anxiety disorders, tourettes, and the list just goes on and on. ADD is just another one on the list. I was told by the doc that it was an underdeveloped part of the brain, back in the mid 90s when I was just a kid.
also a well written post
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
#22223653 - 09/11/15 07:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Like I said, I would have been diagnosed as ADD but it was because I was bored out of my skull. The geometry teacher finally told me not to come to class because my snoring was distracting to the numbskulls. Once a week. Aced every test. One time nobody woke me up and I finally stirred in the middle of the next class. They thought it was pretty funny. I guarantee that if that had happened today I would have been uselessly and harmfully medicated.
I have seen what goes on with these protocols. They absolutely have no fucking clue what they are doing. They try this and they try that and maybe something will work. Usually they come at a cost. Meanwhile the shrinks are banking
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
#22223654 - 09/11/15 07:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I really don't give enough of a fuck to argue this with you OP. The entire medical community is on my side and you have zero knowledge about ADD because you never went to medical school and you are not a doctor. You may have done internet research but you are not qualified to say what is and what isn't a real disorder.
I'll discuss these topics with someone who studied them for years and has a medical degree rather then a stranger on a drug forum.
ADD means you have troubles concentrating, depression means you are not happy. They are both dysfunctions in the brain that require medical treatment. You can approach it with drugs, with a psychologist, with therapy. All methods should involve you and your doctor and discussing your options to have the best outcome.
I don't tell depressed people that they should just snap out of it, just like I don't tell people with ADD they are lazy.
To act like you have more knowledge and expertise in this field then a qualified professional is very arrogant and destructive when you are spreading misinformation based off of the claims off one person on a youtube video.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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You are not correct. There are many in the medical community that dispute this
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
#22223661 - 09/11/15 07:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said:
We haven't found any physiological basis for it. There is not physiological test. What does that tell you?
Yet you claim to have treated with neurofeedback and meditation. What is the physiological basis by which these methods treated your ADHD?
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: zappaisgod]
#22223667 - 09/11/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: You are not correct. There are many in the medical community that dispute this
Every doctor I have spoken to considers ADD a real disorder.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Detached
You know where...


Registered: 02/27/15
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: To act like you have more knowledge and expertise in this field then a qualified professional is very arrogant and destructive when you are spreading misinformation based off of the claims off one person on a youtube video.
Isn't that what you are doing, BC?
Not all doctors stand unilaterally on this topic either.
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ShroomBound
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: badchad]
#22223670 - 09/11/15 07:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's a bold statement, you have a few examples of "curing your adhd, how do you "cure" something that isn't real? You really should do more research before you make such bold claims.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Detached]
#22223679 - 09/11/15 07:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Detached said:
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: To act like you have more knowledge and expertise in this field then a qualified professional is very arrogant and destructive when you are spreading misinformation based off of the claims off one person on a youtube video.
Isn't that what you are doing, BC?
Not all doctors stand unilaterally on this topic either.
When you go to medical school you are taught that ADD is a real disorder. The scientific community is overwhelmingly in agreement on this topic. There are always scientists that claim opposition but they are a small minority.
Oh and there is no cure to ADD like there is no cure to depression.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Detached
You know where...


Registered: 02/27/15
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This simply isn't true. I would really like to know where you gather your facts and information from.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: badchad]
#22223741 - 09/11/15 07:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:
Detached said:
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: To act like you have more knowledge and expertise in this field then a qualified professional is very arrogant and destructive when you are spreading misinformation based off of the claims off one person on a youtube video.
Isn't that what you are doing, BC?
Not all doctors stand unilaterally on this topic either.
When you go to medical school you are taught that ADD is a real disorder. The scientific community is overwhelmingly in agreement on this topic. There are always scientists that claim opposition but they are a small minority.
Oh and there is no cure to ADD like there is no cure to depression.
Ya bc seriously. Many in the field disagree with you and so far you have yet to provide a shred of proof against them. I made the claim, I provided the proof. Now prove me wrong
And yes there is a cure to depression. Its called being positive. I have had depression many times in my life on and off. If I have exhausted all natural means, then antidepressants are a reasonable response. Many possible have tried all natural means, and their brains are wired to be depressed. Some brains are genetically wired to be lacking in attention. If they have tried all possible means, and they cannot function, then go ahead.
But taking speed because you have trouble paying attention is silliness. You have not researched all possible methods. It makes you callous and irresponsible for even defending it as a smart long term move
Quote:
badchad said:
Quote:
topdog82 said:
We haven't found any physiological basis for it. There is not physiological test. What does that tell you?
Yet you claim to have treated with neurofeedback and meditation. What is the physiological basis by which these methods treated your ADHD?
Well the line between physiological and psychological is closely blurred at the end of the day. But I guess what I am saying is that the same way you can train yourself to be more positive and less depressed, you can train yourself to focus. Obviously some people have natural deficiets. But until you have tried natural approaches to poor attention span, taking speed is not a smart move
Look I go to a college where people eat garbage cafeteria food and drink 3-4 nights a week while sustiaining instense polydrug use. If I had a dollar for everytime a white bitch said she had trouble focusing, I would be rich
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
#22223750 - 09/11/15 07:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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"And yes there is a cure to depression. Its called being positive. "
Right there shows how little you understand about depression and psychiatric conditions.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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There is an actual chemical cause of some depressions but it is way overdiagnosed for episodic sadness related to life events where sadness is a completely appropriate response.
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bennylava
Bad example


Registered: 05/29/15
Posts: 587
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Detached]
#22223839 - 09/11/15 07:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well I know its quite real. At the risk of using an overused phrase, the difference between my behavior on zoloft, and off zoloft, is night and day. Off zoloft, I can only call it suffering. On it, I feel like what I imagine normal people feel like, when it comes to their ability to concentrate and excel at school and work. I have to be very careful when I'm off it, that I don't put the remote in the refrigerator and lose it for a few days. Shit like that.
And I just simply can't stay on task. I just can't do it. The only way I've found to combat this when off of the zoloft, is to start 3 or 4 or 5 tasks at once. I'll rotate the tasks, finishing them all finally, at long last. But working on them all, at a steady pace, even though I'm alternating through them. A steady pace that wouldn't be possible, if I only worked on a single task or project.
Next thing I've noticed. On zoloft, its like I can do 2 things at once. I can listen to the wife, archive what she said, and respond when I am finished writing something. I'll hear her, and remember what was said. Off the zoloft, I may be barely aware that a voice was speaking. Its almost as if it was just a dream. I can only concentrate on either her talking, or me doing whatever I was doing. Not both. But on it, I'll be able to say "one second please." and be able to finish it up, and then respond to the question or statement. Not possible otherwise. I won't even know what she said.
Next one. I can pay attention to things that don't interest me. ADD is the king of tuning out. You'll tune out and not even be aware of something that can't hold your interest. With the zoloft, no problem. I mean I may eventually get bored and want to stop just like anyone else, but I can sit there and do it. Without it, there will be huge gaps in the information or whatever I was trying to pay attention to. I simply can't sit there for very long, and pay attention to something that I don't find interesting. This is probably related to the other poster's extreme boredom, as that's also something I've noticed.
Next one. Mind drifting off into space, and frequent daydreaming. At very inopportune times. Also pretty disruptive of daily life.
Next one. Inability to stop thinking about something, and respond to someone. This goes back to the whole "doing 2 things at once" thing I mentioned earlier. I can either A. Lose my train of thought and have a good chance of forgetting what I was thinking about and my conclusion to those thoughts, or I can B) completely tune out whoever is trying to talk to me. I can't just pick up where I left off, or at least not easily. This almost always provokes an irritation response for anyone who insists on interrupting whatever I was doing. They don't understand why I wouldn't want to be bothered, cause they don't have the disease. But I have to juggle between complete interruption, or talking to them. It sucks. On the zoloft I just sort of pick right back up where I left off, with my thoughts. I'd almost describe it as a computer with not enough RAM. Everything has to wait in line, there isn't room for all of it. Again on zoloft, none of these problems I'm describing, are present. They just vanish, as though they were never there.
Edited by bennylava (09/11/15 07:42 PM)
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Bitter Cactus
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: bennylava]
#22223879 - 09/11/15 07:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Zoloft is an SSRI dude sounds horrible for ADD lol
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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bennylava
Bad example


Registered: 05/29/15
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Its not. Its the cure.
Plus ADD is seratonin related, so it makes perfect sense that it would have at least some effect on ADD, as SSRIs prevent seratonin re-uptake, for a time.
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Bitter Cactus
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: bennylava] 1
#22223891 - 09/11/15 07:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bennylava said: Its not. Its the cure.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: bennylava]
#22223917 - 09/11/15 07:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It most certainly does not work for everyone diagnosed with ADD and it definitely has downsides for many. The side effects are not a joke.
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