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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Do you think all mental disorders are not real or just ADD?
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: For the wacking off to porn thing you can go to a medical professional and they will evaluate you and see if you meet the criteria for any type of disorder. My guess is going to be no.
In my doctors office there is actually a poster that says ADD is a lifelong disorder. I have no idea if it is genetic not all disorders are though. To my knowledge there is no cure for ADD or any other psychiatric condition I have personally ever heard of.
If you have that cure I suggest you write a book and you will be a new york times best seller. The industry would pay insane amounts of money for a cure.
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: Do you think all mental disorders are not real or just ADD?
Obviously what I'm saying here is that psychiatry has turned this behavioral trait into a debilitating illness which it's not. I am not the first to say this. ADHD is a HOT TOPIC of debate across the nation
Also, I believe many psychiatric conditions are over diagnosed and many psychiatrists make the jump to medication too quick. If you make lifestyle changes and have genuinely tried everything affordable and "natural" then go ahead and jump on medication. If you have tried healthy lifestyle choices and your depression doesn't cure itself over time then you most likely have clinical grade depression. Otherwise, telling a 17 year old girl that she has ADHD or depression because she has a scattered mind or is sad is dumb. 17 year old girls don't have centered minds and unhappiness is part of life. Life has ups and downs
There is no real "cure". It's a behvaroil trait/symptom that in most cases can be trained away I believe. But there really is 0 evidence that this isn't a few ppl who have issues paying attention. That's really what it seems to be
there's a difference between a curable symptom and a debilitating disease that needs medication. A scattered mind CAN be cured and there's no reason to think not. People who are scatter brained and do little to change will remain scatter brained
And even if it is or isn't genetic it isn't lifelong
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Dr.Wongburger
Yes!!


Registered: 08/23/15
Posts: 1,308
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
#22235229 - 09/14/15 01:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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So they cant solve children's problems who have attention span issues or is filled with to much energy. So what do they do.. give them so much more energy, amphetamine- a serious drug so their at the point to where they can concentrate on any thing superbly.. and are super hyped up on energy. 
That's complete shit to give amphetamine to Children.
Interesting fact : Hitler used amphetamines. Think what you want of that. Not meaning offense.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=did+hitler+use+amphetamine
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said: So they cant solve children's problems who have attention span issues or is filled with to much energy. So what do they do.. give them so much more energy, amphetamine- a serious drug so their at the point to where they can concentrate on any thing superbly.. and are super hyped up on energy. 
That's complete shit to give amphetamine to Children.
Interesting fact : Hitler used amphetamines. Think what you want of that. Not meaning offense.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=did+hitler+use+amphetamine
Werd. But amps seems to work and give kids centered minds. In low doses it def works. Im just doubting its need
BC: its been 15 pages and all you do is repeat yourself. I need to make sure to stop responding lol. You have given me a list of symptoms, not any objective scientific explanations
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
LSDreamer said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The DSM is and always has been at least 50% bullshit. This was rather well known when I got my psych degree 35 years ago. It was always controversial.
The fact remains that nobody posting on the Shroomery has done the research required to claim something in the DSM is bullshit. If it's in the DSM, it's got stats backing it up. If you're posting on the Shroomery, you've got anecdotes. The only reasonable thing to do is defer to the experts because anecdotes are not evidence.
The "experts" do not know what they are doing. They are shrinks and psychologists who won't get paid if an insurance company doesn't find what they are treating in the DSM. They change it every few years. They play "throw it at the wall" with drugs.
The DSM is a payment and political manual. The thing is everybody has different bullshit if they have bullshit at all, That aint gonna get them paid. They cannot file a request for payment with a diagnosis of Norman Dikfor disease just because Norman Dikfor has issues. Everybody's issues are different.
I believe they just kicked Asperger's off the list. Now they gotta diagnose those weirdos with something else.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: zappaisgod]
#22235984 - 09/14/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
LSDreamer said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The DSM is and always has been at least 50% bullshit. This was rather well known when I got my psych degree 35 years ago. It was always controversial.
The fact remains that nobody posting on the Shroomery has done the research required to claim something in the DSM is bullshit. If it's in the DSM, it's got stats backing it up. If you're posting on the Shroomery, you've got anecdotes. The only reasonable thing to do is defer to the experts because anecdotes are not evidence.
The "experts" do not know what they are doing. They are shrinks and psychologists who won't get paid if an insurance company doesn't find what they are treating in the DSM. They change it every few years. They play "throw it at the wall" with drugs.
The DSM is a payment and political manual. The thing is everybody has different bullshit if they have bullshit at all, That aint gonna get them paid. They cannot file a request for payment with a diagnosis of Norman Dikfor disease just because Norman Dikfor has issues. Everybody's issues are different.
I believe they just kicked Asperger's off the list. Now they gotta diagnose those weirdos with something else.
 So I understand it, aspergers is very real
Thats strange. Perhaps it didn't exist all along. Maybe they lump those people in with autism? Who knows? I clearly haven't read enough on this topic so I can't say anything forsure really
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
#22236084 - 09/14/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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According to topdog all mental disorders are not real and should be blamed on the person with them because they are not meditating enough. 
Seriously though, a doctor just not just look at someone and say "you are scatter brained" and diagnose them with ADD. I had to undergo a half an hour interview and a thirty minute exam to get my diagnosis.
You are not a qualified medical professional and to say you understand how these illnesses are diagnosed and to say that you think a lot of them are bullshit shows how little you understand.
You obviously are not compliant with the system in the first place. I suggest you make start your own medical college and instead of diagnosing people with psychiatric conditions based on symptoms you guys can just do hot yoga and hope it solves all the illnesses.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Just gotta say though vyvanse scripts are awesome.
I look forward to school work when it kicks in.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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makaveli8x8
Stranger

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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keep up the good grades don't wanna get grounded.
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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cosmicg
ForeverLost



Registered: 08/30/15
Posts: 138
Loc: HERE
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Of course you do Bitter Cactus.
Everyone does.
Even people that have not been diagnosed with "ADHD"
Imagine that.
Edited by cosmicg (09/14/15 11:49 AM)
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: cosmicg]
#22236277 - 09/14/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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People not diagnosed with general anxiety disorder benefit from stuff like xanax too. That argument is shit brotha.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Dr.Wongburger
Yes!!


Registered: 08/23/15
Posts: 1,308
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
#22236327 - 09/14/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said: So they cant solve children's problems who have attention span issues or is filled with to much energy. So what do they do.. give them so much more energy, amphetamine- a serious drug so their at the point to where they can concentrate on any thing superbly.. and are super hyped up on energy. 
That's complete shit to give amphetamine to Children.
Interesting fact : Hitler used amphetamines. Think what you want of that. Not meaning offense.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=did+hitler+use+amphetamine
Werd. But amps seems to work and give kids centered minds. In low doses it def works. Im just doubting its need
BC: its been 15 pages and all you do is repeat yourself. I need to make sure to stop responding lol. You have given me a list of symptoms, not any objective scientific explanations
I doubt the need also.
Edited by Dr.Wongburger (09/14/15 12:17 PM)
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cosmicg
ForeverLost



Registered: 08/30/15
Posts: 138
Loc: HERE
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Oh you got me there my friend.
Still in my opinion, anyone can go see a doctor say the right things and get diagnosed whatever they want really.
I live in the states though so it may be different here.
Prescription drugs aren't hard to get prescribed to in the United States, at least my state.
That's why I don't trust the doctors, they just want your insurance. And I swear they get sponsored by certain companies to prescribe meds...I could be insane.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: cosmicg]
#22236340 - 09/14/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's tough to get an ADD script in Canada now. They are making lots of new restrictions.
And if a kid that is four years old is put on ritalin it is guaranteed the lowest dose possible and monitored very closely. Little kids like that with seizures are put on xanax too guaranteed.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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cosmicg
ForeverLost



Registered: 08/30/15
Posts: 138
Loc: HERE
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: cosmicg]
#22236343 - 09/14/15 12:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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You should know if you read my posts what I really have a problem with.
It's how over-prescribed it is here. I know doctor's who give little kids this stuff based on recommendations from their school teachers.
It isn't right, I knew these kids before they were on the medication and they are very different now, and do not behave like a happy kid should, at least not in my opinion.
I guess that's all I really have to say about it. I have a lot of friends hooked on speed as well, so it's just something that bothers me.
If it helps you and you feel you need it, then take it.
I think that is fair. I don't disagree with you on everything, just some things. But it's all good man. Take care.
Edited by cosmicg (09/14/15 12:12 PM)
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: cosmicg]
#22236367 - 09/14/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think doctors in general are gonna start handing out medications that can be abused much less frequently in the future.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Dr.Wongburger
Yes!!


Registered: 08/23/15
Posts: 1,308
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: cosmicg]
#22236385 - 09/14/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I can tell you from personal experience and many many nights and days of abusing amphetamine. Any where from 10mg's and up, I will say it is a serious drug that I would personally never give a child. I don't think it takes scientific data or a doctor to see this. Take a dose, feel the effects. I mean would some one give a child meth if it was in a pill form and popular amongst the culture? They probably would because of the lack of brains. Aint's no fixins stupid.
People will frown upon one for giving one's 10 year old marijuana, why the fuck do people think it's okay to give them amphetamine? Hypocrites.
I agree with you. It is well/very over-prescribed.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: cosmicg]
#22236387 - 09/14/15 12:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said:
Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said: So they cant solve children's problems who have attention span issues or is filled with to much energy. So what do they do.. give them so much more energy, amphetamine- a serious drug so their at the point to where they can concentrate on any thing superbly.. and are super hyped up on energy. 
That's complete shit to give amphetamine to Children.
Interesting fact : Hitler used amphetamines. Think what you want of that. Not meaning offense.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=did+hitler+use+amphetamine
Werd. But amps seems to work and give kids centered minds. In low doses it def works. Im just doubting its need
BC: its been 15 pages and all you do is repeat yourself. I need to make sure to stop responding lol. You have given me a list of symptoms, not any objective scientific explanations
I guess I assumed you were in support of it not existing because of your thread title. 
I can tell you from personal experience and many many nights and days of abusing amphetamine. Any where from 10mg's and up, I will say it is a serious drug that I would personally never give a child. I don't think it takes scientific data or a doctor to see this. Take a dose, feel the effects. I mean would some one give a child meth if it was in a pill form and popular amongst the culture? They probably would because of the lack of brains. Aint's no fixins stupid.
People will frown upon one for giving one's 10 year old marijuana, why the fuck do people think it's okay to give them amphetamine? Hypocrites.
I'm not saying that you personally would not give a child a small dose of marijuana, but would you if it solved a medical condition? It's sad but most people would not.
Btw I have never repeated my self in this thread. That was my first post in your thread within regards to the subject. I do think you meant "All of you just repeat each other".
ADHD most likely doesnt exist, and there little evidence that it isn't what it seems to be. A lack of attention span/sacttered mind. Earlier this year I was suicidally depressed. But there is little reason to beleive it wasn't simply a phase
In both situations, amphetamines would have removed the symptoms. Amphetamines help people who cant focus. But training your brain to focus allows the user to focus for life with little to side effects and neurotoxictiy
So speed definately works. It helps people focus. No surprise here. But at what cost?
And you never repeated yourself. BC just keeps telling me that psychiatrists say its a lifelong condition and taking speed helped him focus. Like no fucking duh. Im arguing that psychiatry is wrong here and there are no clear permanent structural issues in the brain in those who have ADHD. Something being believed to be true doesn't make it true. Especially if there is not a shred of evidence Im sure MDMA is great for removing depressive symptoms. Doesn't make it a smart long term solution to a problem is all
Quote:
cosmicg said: Oh you got me there my friend.
Still in my opinion, anyone can go see a doctor say the right things and get diagnosed whatever they want really.
I live in the states though so it may be different here.
Prescription drugs aren't hard to get prescribed to in the United States, at least my state.
That's why I don't trust the doctors, they just want your insurance. And I swear they get sponsored by certain companies to prescribe meds...I could be insane.
precsiely. a 30 minute test and 30 minute discussion with a psychiatrist is not ample ground for taking speed for the rest of your life daily. It definately will help you and work. But its not nessacary at allQuote:
cosmicg said: You should know if you read my posts what I really have a problem with.
It's how over-prescribed it is here. I know doctor's who give little kids this stuff based on recommendations from their school teachers.
It isn't right, I knew these kids before they were on the medication and they are very different now, and do not behave like a happy kid should, at least not in my opinion.
I guess that's all I really have to say about it. I have a lot of friends hooked on speed as well, so it's just something that bothers me.
If it helps you and you feel you need it, then take it.
I think that is fair. I don't disagree with you on everything, just some things. But it's all good man. Take care.
It is definately unpleasant in the long run. I took my script on and off for up to 2 years I think. It definately works like I said. But the side effects really make me doubt that this is a smart/wise idea. It changed my personality and made me a robot. I stopped taking it after like 1 year of near daily script and I felt retarded for a month. Mental fog like a mother fucker. This is when I thought I was "special" and needed it
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
#22236395 - 09/14/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said:
Im sure MDMA is great for removing depressive symptoms. Doesn't make it a smart long term solution to a problem is all
But by your logic, depression doesn't exist either since its subjectively diagnosed as well.
This is the hesitancy associated with psychiatry, the lack of objective physiological criteria will always hamper its acceptance.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
#22236404 - 09/14/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I personally think topdog just hates the entire system and doesn't subscribe to it. Either way they do have evidence about all these conditions but I am not a doctor so I really don't know what is considered to be diagnosed.
I will say though, you are the one saying depression is just something you change by "thinking positive" and you think a lot of mental conditions are bullshit and not a lifelong struggle.
You hate the system, but your solutions may work for some people anecdotally but you do not have clinical trials to prove you ideas are better. They may be better to some.
Doctors are already to assume you are doing the best for your diet and exercise by the way. They don't just send you home and tell you to eat better cause that is already implied.
I just wanna say though I have never had any side effects from my ADD medication. You guys act like people on ADD meds are spun on meth it honestly just relaxes me and my mind and keeps me feeling somewhat normal.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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