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cosmicg
ForeverLost



Registered: 08/30/15
Posts: 138
Loc: HERE
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Dude.
You can convince a doctor of anything. IME most doctors don't know anything about the medicines they prescribe their patients. There are always hidden motives. I am also paranoid but that is because where I live the doctors are straight quacks.
What about the children BC? Think of the kids. What is your opinion on that?
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LSDreamer
Materialist



Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 10,052
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: cosmicg]
#22234360 - 09/13/15 09:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Are we really doing the fucking deathbed confession thing? Like Darwin said evolution is fake on his deathbed, or Einstein converted to Christianity or what the fuck ever? Really? REALLY? We're at the point now that we can identify ADHD using brain imaging. Is that fake too?
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
#22234364 - 09/13/15 09:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just googled the age of a toddler. It says a toddler is 1-3 years old.
cosmicg said they are prescribing toddlers ADD meds. So that means they are prescribing like 1-3 year olds adderall according to him! Lmao how could you diagnose a one year old with ADD?
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
#22234383 - 09/13/15 09:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The DSM is and always has been at least 50% bullshit. This was rather well known when I got my psych degree 35 years ago. It was always controversial.
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cosmicg
ForeverLost



Registered: 08/30/15
Posts: 138
Loc: HERE
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: cosmicg]
#22234386 - 09/13/15 09:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes BC they give it to toddlers because parents don't want to deal with their high energy level kids who are just being kids.
I know a little girl who takes adderal.
She is four.
Lol did you really google that?
Close enough imo.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: cosmicg]
#22234396 - 09/13/15 09:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Is four a toddler?
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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LSDreamer
Materialist



Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 10,052
Last seen: 7 years, 8 days
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: zappaisgod]
#22234418 - 09/13/15 09:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The DSM is and always has been at least 50% bullshit. This was rather well known when I got my psych degree 35 years ago. It was always controversial.
The fact remains that nobody posting on the Shroomery has done the research required to claim something in the DSM is bullshit. If it's in the DSM, it's got stats backing it up. If you're posting on the Shroomery, you've got anecdotes. The only reasonable thing to do is defer to the experts because anecdotes are not evidence.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
#22234454 - 09/13/15 09:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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sometimes people operate off of faulty assumptions.
the DSM may needs of wheedling out of some of it's assumptions but it's a process.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
#22234484 - 09/13/15 09:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm too messed on etizolam and an edible. I will get back to this thread in a the morning when I'm a tad more clear headed
And lol BC I made it explicitly clear I had a myriad of psychological tests done. So did my brother. A lot of my cousins did as well. I will even link the website to the place in the morn
I skimmed all these new posts. LSDreamer, u have some rock solid logic and ur thoughts are incredibly coherent. Over all a good writer. Seriously consisee journaling for yourself
But till tomorrow adios! I have some chilling and sleeping to do
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cosmicg
ForeverLost



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Posts: 138
Loc: HERE
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
#22234494 - 09/13/15 09:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Don't ignore the point.
Four year olds should not be taking speed!!!!
Or are you so stuck in your ways that you believe that is okay?
I asked my Aunt why she would give her daughter this shit and her response was I just can't take her bouncing off the walls all day. That's what healthy, happy kids do. School is boring! Just because you have kids that aren't interested in learning math does not mean that they need medication.
You disagree?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
#22234535 - 09/13/15 09:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
LSDreamer said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The DSM is and always has been at least 50% bullshit. This was rather well known when I got my psych degree 35 years ago. It was always controversial.
The fact remains that nobody posting on the Shroomery has done the research required to claim something in the DSM is bullshit. If it's in the DSM, it's got stats backing it up. If you're posting on the Shroomery, you've got anecdotes. The only reasonable thing to do is defer to the experts because anecdotes are not evidence.
Ummmm no. The DSM is a political document
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: cosmicg]
#22234557 - 09/13/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
cosmicg said: Don't ignore the point.
Four year olds should not be taking speed!!!!
Or are you so stuck in your ways that you believe that is okay?
I asked my Aunt why she would give her daughter this shit and her response was I just can't take her bouncing off the walls all day. That's what healthy, happy kids do. School is boring! Just because you have kids that aren't interested in learning math does not mean that they need medication.
You disagree?
I just did research. The American Academy of Pediatrics said most kids aren't diagnosed until they are in school, but kids as young as four can be diagnosed. I am fine with that it is not like the kid is gonna be tweaked out on a high dose they probably start extremely low and monitor the kid closely which I am completely okay with.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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LSDreamer
Materialist



Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 10,052
Last seen: 7 years, 8 days
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: cosmicg]
#22234558 - 09/13/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
cosmicg said: Don't ignore the point.
Four year olds should not be taking speed!!!!
Or are you so stuck in your ways that you believe that is okay?
I asked my Aunt why she would give her daughter this shit and her response was I just can't take her bouncing off the walls all day. That's what healthy, happy kids do. School is boring! Just because you have kids that aren't interested in learning math does not mean that they need medication.
You disagree?
Yeah, children that young probably shouldn't be given speed. That's what my intuition says, anyway. I have no clue what the data says. Maybe in the right dose there's little to no harm. I don't know, and there's nothing wrong with that. What I do know is that just because ADHD happened to be convenient to over diagnose does not mean that the condition itself does not exist. Just that it's over diagnosed.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
#22234571 - 09/13/15 09:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
LSDreamer said:
Quote:
cosmicg said: Don't ignore the point.
Four year olds should not be taking speed!!!!
Or are you so stuck in your ways that you believe that is okay?
I asked my Aunt why she would give her daughter this shit and her response was I just can't take her bouncing off the walls all day. That's what healthy, happy kids do. School is boring! Just because you have kids that aren't interested in learning math does not mean that they need medication.
You disagree?
Yeah, children that young probably shouldn't be given speed. That's what my intuition says, anyway. I have no clue what the data says. Maybe in the right dose there's little to no harm. I don't know, and there's nothing wrong with that. What I do know is that just because ADHD happened to be convenient to over diagnose does not mean that the condition itself does not exist. Just that it's over diagnosed.
I have heard lately they are diagnosing it a lot less and there are more restrictions to get an ADD script because of cases of abuse. That's at least how it has become lately in Canada.
But ya, I have no problem with a four year old being diagnosed with ADD if the case is legitimate and they are monitored closely with low dose medication.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
#22234746 - 09/13/15 10:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
LSDreamer said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The DSM is and always has been at least 50% bullshit. This was rather well known when I got my psych degree 35 years ago. It was always controversial.
The fact remains that nobody posting on the Shroomery has done the research required to claim something in the DSM is bullshit. If it's in the DSM, it's got stats backing it up. If you're posting on the Shroomery, you've got anecdotes. The only reasonable thing to do is defer to the experts because anecdotes are not evidence.
You really think someone would go on the internet and lie like that?
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Quote:
LSDreamer said:
Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: I think we call things like bipolar, ADD, depression, GAD, ect. disorders.
ADD is not just being distracted. That shows how little you understand about it. There is a very long list of symptoms. I personally had to do an extended test that had at least one hundred questions and do an interview to qualify.
We all get distracted, but that does NOT mean we all have ADD. To be considered ADD you have to undergo a evaluation and have a professional follow a list of symptoms and stuff like that to be diagnosed. I am not qualified to say if someone has ADD, but I can tell you there is much more to it then being distracted.
I grew up in a fairly upper class area. at least 75% of the people I know have thier symptoms of poor attention span lineup exactly with ADHD anecdotally and 50% of that 75% has had themselves extensively evaluated by a psychiatrist. I remained unconvinced
Two things, mate.
One: I think we are differing on the definition of "cure". I asked you if you terminated your self-care practices would your symptoms return, and you didn't answer. I'm going to guess the answer is yes. Being able to effectively manage a condition in the long term is not the same as being "cured".
Two: This is exactly why, for this type of thing, we must look to statistical analysis to form our understanding. Your personal experiences are not sufficient to come to an accurate understanding of the causes and prevalence of ADD. Nor are mine. Or anybody's. You should trust your own experiences very cautiously as a general rule.
Ok first off, very well written post. Like I said, I commend you for your arguements and logic
But to an extent. when I stop meditating I still feel "normal". Not nearly as bad as I felt before I began meditating. When I meditate daily however, I feel like the guy in my avatar (the hindu god shiva). Much more "in control"
Also, this phenomenon has been scintifically backed. Arnold schwarzegger discussed this in an interview. His experiences are the same. People who meditate consistently for a period of time, rarely go back to "baseline" attention and focus after not meditating. The structural changes are semi-permenant
So in essence, I am "cured"
Also, You bring up an interesting point. I guess from my anecdotal experience, I cannot make strong objective claims. But you brougt up that you were suicidally depressed earlier. Suicidal depression is shown to be tied to certain genetic markers. It spreads from father to son, and certain families have a history of depression. "true" depression is very serious, and deeply understood by psychiatrists. It cannot be reversed at all, and is not a recent phenomenon. There have been reports of people being suicidally/clinically depressed from the dawn of mankind. It exists in a real and measurable way in every country around the world.
ADHD on the other hand hasnt really popped up anywhere significantly except in the US and first world countries and mainly only in the past generation. It is not tied to genetic markers either. And as with the whole "does God exist?" arguement, until we find conclusive evidence that ADHD is in fact an uncurable lifelong disease inherited through genetics and marked by irreversible macrostructural changes in the brain, I will not believe it.
Quote:
LSDreamer said:
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: Please read this topdog.
- Everyone misses social cues, but that does not mean we all have aspergers
- We all have mood swings, that does not mean everyone is bipolar
- We all get sad, does not mean we are all clinically depressed
- Lots of people are particular about particular things like being clean, but that does not mean we all have OCD
- Sometimes we isolate ourselves and don't want to hang out with friends, that does not mean we have antisocial personality disorder
In order to determine if you fit the criteria of a specific disorder, you should contact a medical professional who can do a through evaluation and decide with his years of expertise whether or not you qualify to be diagnosed with the disorder. They will assess you and decide whether or not you meet the requirements to be diagnosed.
I really hope my point is coming across.
Homeboy, he said he did that. Like I said, it sounds like he had a full neuropsych evaluation based on what he said. That type of testing is thorough.
Like LSDReamer said, I 100% was evaluated by top medical professionals and put through a slew of brain scans and psychiatry tests. I still have the documents. My attention span and memory was dirt poor and the list of symptoms for ADHD is exactly a perfect description of me Anecdotally and medically, I am as close to ADHD as one can get.I have made this painfully clear. My proof that I fit the description of ADHD Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: If you guys have a better solution then what modern medicine has for these disorders, start your own medical school and teach your ideas there.
Honestly disorders really are a list of symptoms put together to classify specific behaviors that adversely effect your life. That is really the best system we have and if you have a better one then you should start your own practice.
I do and I dont. Proper diet and sleep etc. have all been stated already. Like I said, this is the first line of attack. Until all affordable "natural" treatments have been tried, I dont think it is reasonable to use hard medication at all
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: The system modern psychology has in place is not perfect, but for a lot of people including myself the results have been life changing.
Since I got my script I signed up for school and got accepted and am studying hard daily for my bachelor of commerce. Before I would leave everything to last minute and get frustrated and now I am able to achieve my goals at the level of my intelligence.
Most people with ADD are smart, but their brains are all over the place and cannot use that potential.
But ya, if you want to take mushrooms for your ADD that might work as well. The best thing we have for people with ADD is stimulants. Everyone benefits from stimulants, but only people with ADD require them. Just like we would all be better off with an anxiety script, but only people with really ADD require it.
If you have cancer and think smoking weed will be more effective then chemotherapy to kill the cancer cells, you can do that but I am going to go with the chemo and smoke weed for the nausea but not to actually kill the cancer.
This is retarded. I am truly happy that you are doing well. But you keep stating that taking speed changing your life. No fucking duh. Speed makes you feel good in the short term. I feel great when I take speed. I feel more focused. This is not justification that western medicine "works". I also feel great when I snort coke. Focused and energetic etc. Its far from needed and does not address the problem in any way Quote:
LSDreamer said: I would imagine the majority of people who end up saying psychology is bullshit were people who went in never intending to be compliant in the first place. That said, if your psychologist isn't doing some form of cognitive-behavioral therapy or mindfulness training with you, you're probably wasting your time and money. I've heard there are some neofreudians out there, and I would seriously doubt the effectiveness of that approach, especially when compared with CBT and Mindfulness.
Well said mate! Mindfullness isnt the end all be all. But in essence it is the wisdom of almost every religion in a scientifically backed form
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: Topdog has the cure for ADD though I am surprised he has not written a best selling book or sold his information to someone for a massive sum of money.
Sadly, as this thread proves, people don't like being told they need to put in work to cure and treat their issue. Both patients and doctors genuinely mean well. But the average american is too busy struggling through day to day life to really sit down and understand this issue for what it isQuote:
Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:
LSDreamer said:
Quote:
cosmicg said: Don't ignore the point.
Four year olds should not be taking speed!!!!
Or are you so stuck in your ways that you believe that is okay?
I asked my Aunt why she would give her daughter this shit and her response was I just can't take her bouncing off the walls all day. That's what healthy, happy kids do. School is boring! Just because you have kids that aren't interested in learning math does not mean that they need medication.
You disagree?
Yeah, children that young probably shouldn't be given speed. That's what my intuition says, anyway. I have no clue what the data says. Maybe in the right dose there's little to no harm. I don't know, and there's nothing wrong with that. What I do know is that just because ADHD happened to be convenient to over diagnose does not mean that the condition itself does not exist. Just that it's over diagnosed.
I have heard lately they are diagnosing it a lot less and there are more restrictions to get an ADD script because of cases of abuse. That's at least how it has become lately in Canada.
But ya, I have no problem with a four year old being diagnosed with ADD if the case is legitimate and they are monitored closely with low dose medication. 
this is retarded brah. Giving speed to a young kid is irresponsible is an absolute last resort
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
#22235115 - 09/14/15 12:25 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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like I said BC, I couldnt give less fucks about your feelings.
As I said earlier: "until we find conclusive evidence that ADHD is in fact an uncurable lifelong disease from birth inherited through genetics and marked by irreversible macrostructural changes in the brain, I will not believe it."
The weight of evidence is upon you. Feel free to prove me wrong
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
#22235145 - 09/14/15 12:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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What's funny is that all of topdog's arguments are based on anecdotes and a misdiagnosis lol 
ADD is real, there are a list of symptoms, that when you put them together, make up the disorder we call ADD. This is how it works. You put a bunch of behaviors together and you have a disorder.
If you think labeling behaviors is bullshit, that is fine, you can meditate but this is the easiest way for psychiatrists to pursue the proper line of treatment. You need to identify the problem to conquer it.
The entire medical community is in agreement that ADD is a disorder. Your anecdotes are not medical evidence. And no, the burden of proof is on you buddy. You do not even know what criteria is necessary for a disorder to be a disorder.
Do you think bipolar is a disorder? What about antisocial disorder, multiple personality disorder, panic disorder, ect.
Lots of people have mood swings but that does not mean we are all bipolar. Every human being displays different characteristics of different disorders, it does not mean you have that disorder, just like how everyone gets distracted but we do not all have ADD.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: What's funny is that all of topdog's arguments are based on anecdotes and a misdiagnosis lol 
ADD is real, there are a list of symptoms, that when you put them together, make up the disorder we call ADD. This is how it works. You put a bunch of behaviors together and you have a disorder.
If you think labeling behaviors is bullshit, that is fine, you can meditate but this is the easiest way for psychiatrists to pursue the proper line of treatment. You need to identify the problem to conquer it.
The entire medical community is in agreement that ADD is a disorder. Your anecdotes are not medical evidence. And no, the burden of proof is on you buddy. You do not even know what criteria is necessary for a disorder to be a disorder.
Do you think bipolar is a disorder? What about antisocial disorder, multiple personality disorder, panic disorder, ect.
Lots of people have mood swings but that does not mean we are all bipolar. Every human being displays different characteristics of different disorders, it does not mean you have that disorder, just like how everyone gets distracted but we do not all have ADD.
The other day I was really horny and just spent all day wanting to wack off and watching porn. Is that a disoder? No. Its temporary and could be fixed by blocking pornhub
It is not genetic. It is not uncurable. Its an inconvenient set of behaviors that can be reversed. There is no evidence at all that the list of symptoms you presented are in fact an uncurable lifelong disease inherited through genetics and marked by irreversible macrostructural changes in the brain
0 evidence. You are yet to present anything bruh. If you cant focus, train yourself to focus, feed your brain the right nutrients. Its just that simple
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
#22235167 - 09/14/15 12:45 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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For the wacking off to porn thing you can go to a medical professional and they will evaluate you and see if you meet the criteria for any type of disorder. My guess is going to be no.
In my doctors office there is actually a poster that says ADD is a lifelong disorder. I have no idea if it is genetic not all disorders are though. To my knowledge there is no cure for ADD or any other psychiatric condition I have personally ever heard of.
If you have that cure I suggest you write a book and you will be a new york times best seller. The industry would pay insane amounts of money for a cure.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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